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Thread: Can I use Javascript to "make accessible" a third party app that isn't
Number of posts in this thread: 4 (In chronological order)
From: Goldsmith, Marissa
Date: Wed, Jan 21 2009 7:30AM
Subject: Can I use Javascript to "make accessible" a third party app that isn't
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I've been lurking on this list for a while and absorbing quite a bit.
And now I have a question.
Our client is trying to make their website more accessible. We've
identified a probably, however, with some of their donation forms. The
tool is almost accessible. Most of the form fields have labels, but
there are a few, because they are "special" that don't. We don't have
any way to change how the form code is built, and the maker of the
application will not make any changes.
Instead, we think we can use Javascript to add labels into the DOM of
the page as soon as it has loaded. I know it's not an ideal solution.
We don't have access to the more popular screenreaders, so I can't tell
what will happen. Will the ScreenReaders pick up on the Javascript? I
realize that it's not the most elegant solution, and that it will not
likely "pass" a 508 check, but I would like to know if it would help
improve the accessibility of the page.
Thanks!
------------------------------------------------
Marissa Goldsmith
Beaconfire Consulting
http://www.beaconfire.com <http://www.beaconfire.com>;
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
703-894-0080 x246
From: Paul Collins
Date: Wed, Jan 21 2009 7:50AM
Subject: Re: Can I use Javascript to "make accessible" a third party app that isn't
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Marissa, welcome to the Forum!
I would like to know what are the cirumstances are for the "special" form fields. Although the general consensus is all form fields should have a label, I could think of some examples where it doesn't need a label, such as "Date", because you'd need three select boxes for it and the design may not have a label for each of three - just the "date" one at the start. I'm sure I'll be debated on this, but the example is more to prove that every form is different and has different fields.
I believe in an example like above, you could add a title to each form field, as titles on a form field are read out by the majority of assistive software. (Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone?)
So, it would be worth assessing each form field on an individual basis. Forms are supposed to work without the use of Javascript to be accessible, so this wouldn't really be a worthwhile solution. It may help some screen readers that support Javascript though.
Also, you can get a trial version for JAWS and the other major screen readers I think.
Cheers
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Goldsmith, Marissa
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:23 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: [WebAIM] Can I use Javascript to "make accessible" a third party app that isn't
I've been lurking on this list for a while and absorbing quite a bit.
And now I have a question.
Our client is trying to make their website more accessible. We've identified a probably, however, with some of their donation forms. The tool is almost accessible. Most of the form fields have labels, but there are a few, because they are "special" that don't. We don't have any way to change how the form code is built, and the maker of the application will not make any changes.
Instead, we think we can use Javascript to add labels into the DOM of the page as soon as it has loaded. I know it's not an ideal solution.
We don't have access to the more popular screenreaders, so I can't tell what will happen. Will the ScreenReaders pick up on the Javascript? I realize that it's not the most elegant solution, and that it will not likely "pass" a 508 check, but I would like to know if it would help improve the accessibility of the page.
Thanks!
------------------------------------------------
Marissa Goldsmith
Beaconfire Consulting
http://www.beaconfire.com <http://www.beaconfire.com>;
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
703-894-0080 x246
From: Jared Smith
Date: Wed, Jan 21 2009 8:20AM
Subject: Re: Can I use Javascript to "make accessible" a third party app that isn't
← Previous message | Next message →
On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Goldsmith, Marissa
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> We don't have
> any way to change how the form code is built, and the maker of the
> application will not make any changes.
Time to change applications?
> Instead, we think we can use Javascript to add labels into the DOM of
> the page as soon as it has loaded.
Yes, this will work. As Paul noted, it will only work if the end user
has javascript enabled, but the screen reader will pick up the DOM
changes. It may a bit difficult to determine what the exact label is,
unless it is already in a distinct DOM node. Assigning the title
attribute of the input will also work for screen reader users, but
you'll lose the ability to click on the label to set focus to the form
element.
> I realize that it's not the most elegant solution, and that it will not
> likely "pass" a 508 check
There's nothing in Section 508 that requires the document work without
javascript. As long as what you are doing with the scripting is
accessible (and in this case it is), then it is not a Section 508
compliance issue. But you're right, it's not very elegant.
Jared Smith
WebAIM
From: Steve Green
Date: Wed, Jan 21 2009 8:30AM
Subject: Re: Can I use Javascript to "make accessible" a third party app that isn't
← Previous message | No next message
In the circumstances it sounds like a reasonable thing to do because it will
improve accessibility for some people and will not have any adverse effect
on anyone.
I suspect that it will not benefit all screen reader users because they
differ in their ability to interact with the DOM. I would expect JAWS
versions 7.10 and above to be able to read the labels that you add with
JavaScript but earlier versions may not be able to. You would have to test
it to be sure.
On that subject, you are not allowed to use the trial version of JAWS for
testing; this is explicitly prohibited in the license agreement. The trial
version is only to be used to help you decide whether to purchase the full
version.
We have a licensed version, and anyone on this list is welcome to come to
our Test Centre in Central London and use it free of charge if they want to
do any testing. Email me at = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Steve Green
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Paul Collins
Sent: 21 January 2009 14:47
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Can I use Javascript to "make accessible" a third
party app that isn't
Hi Marissa, welcome to the Forum!
I would like to know what are the cirumstances are for the "special" form
fields. Although the general consensus is all form fields should have a
label, I could think of some examples where it doesn't need a label, such
as "Date", because you'd need three select boxes for it and the design may
not have a label for each of three - just the "date" one at the start. I'm
sure I'll be debated on this, but the example is more to prove that every
form is different and has different fields.
I believe in an example like above, you could add a title to each form
field, as titles on a form field are read out by the majority of assistive
software. (Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone?)
So, it would be worth assessing each form field on an individual basis.
Forms are supposed to work without the use of Javascript to be accessible,
so this wouldn't really be a worthwhile solution. It may help some screen
readers that support Javascript though.
Also, you can get a trial version for JAWS and the other major screen
readers I think.
Cheers
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Goldsmith,
Marissa
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:23 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: [WebAIM] Can I use Javascript to "make accessible" a third party
app that isn't
I've been lurking on this list for a while and absorbing quite a bit.
And now I have a question.
Our client is trying to make their website more accessible. We've
identified a probably, however, with some of their donation forms. The tool
is almost accessible. Most of the form fields have labels, but there are a
few, because they are "special" that don't. We don't have any way to change
how the form code is built, and the maker of the application will not make
any changes.
Instead, we think we can use Javascript to add labels into the DOM of the
page as soon as it has loaded. I know it's not an ideal solution.
We don't have access to the more popular screenreaders, so I can't tell what
will happen. Will the ScreenReaders pick up on the Javascript? I realize
that it's not the most elegant solution, and that it will not likely "pass"
a 508 check, but I would like to know if it would help improve the
accessibility of the page.
Thanks!
------------------------------------------------
Marissa Goldsmith
Beaconfire Consulting
http://www.beaconfire.com <http://www.beaconfire.com>;
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
703-894-0080 x246