E-mail List Archives
Thread: Flash Accessibility References
Number of posts in this thread: 12 (In chronological order)
From: Mark Guisinger
Date: Mon, Jun 08 2009 6:10AM
Subject: Flash Accessibility References
No previous message | Next message →
Can anyone out there recommend some good books or websites on Flash accessibility. Definitely looking for something that has good code examples.
Thanks in advance,
Mark
From: David Ashleydale
Date: Fri, Jul 03 2009 5:00PM
Subject: Flash Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi,
I'm not a Flash developer so I wanted to ask for an opinion of those of you
that are. I often receive Flash tools and movies from vendors that don't
meet these two basic accessibility requirements: usable without a mouse, and
readable by JAWS. Using the Tab key, the focus just jumps right over the
Flash -- I can't Tab to any of the active elements within the Flash. And
when I listen to them with JAWS, none of the text that I see within the
Flash is read out loud. I usually hear something like, "Flash movie begin.
Flash movie end."
I have seen Flash components made that satisfy both of these requirements.
So my question is -- do Flash developers need to do something "extra" to
Flash components to get them to meet these requirements, or are the vendors
I'm dealing with just not coding their Flash correctly?
With HTML, I'm confident in pointing out mistakes that developers make. Even
if the HTML developer doesn't know that my company cares about
accessibility, coding a data table using TDs instead of THs for the column
headers is simply wrong. Sure, they can make the TD column headers look bold
and centered using styles, but it's technically incorrect. And this is a
case that if they did it correctly, even not knowing anything about
accessiblity, it would end up being more accessible. Also, I wouldn't
consider it to be asking for something "extra" to request that the developer
redo it with THs.
Basically, I want to know if the Flash developers I'm working with are
sweeping dirt under the rugs and calling the house clean, or am I expecting
them to do the windows?
Thanks,
David Ashleydale
From: Rothschild, Joseph T. (CDC/CCHIS/NCHM) (CTR)
Date: Sun, Jul 05 2009 6:50PM
Subject: Re: Flash Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
Flash can be made quite accessible, however most developers don't have
the tools to properly test them.
What we've discovered is that many of the flash components that come
shipped with Flash make the flash movie inaccessible by causing flash to
trap focus. The obvious solution of using the Accessibility pane
properties in addition to basic AS accessibility coding solves many of
the issues, but it often comes down to frequent testing using a variety
of screen readers and browsers.
So in short, it's your developers.
Joe
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:::::::::::::::::::::::
.:: Joseph Rothschild ::.
.:: Pixels Misshapen, Not Stirred ::.
.:: 508 Accessibility Specialist / New Media Developer ::.
.:: Contractor with Northrop Grumman ::.
.:: CDC National Center for Health Marketing ::.
.:: Division of eHealth Marketing - New Media Group ::.
.:: Office. 404.498.1140 ::.
.:: Mobile. 858.204.8105 ::.
.:: SL. Fender Soderstrom ::.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of David
Ashleydale
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 6:56 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] Flash Accessibility
Hi,
I'm not a Flash developer so I wanted to ask for an opinion of those of
you that are. I often receive Flash tools and movies from vendors that
don't meet these two basic accessibility requirements: usable without a
mouse, and readable by JAWS. Using the Tab key, the focus just jumps
right over the Flash -- I can't Tab to any of the active elements within
the Flash. And when I listen to them with JAWS, none of the text that I
see within the Flash is read out loud. I usually hear something like,
"Flash movie begin.
Flash movie end."
I have seen Flash components made that satisfy both of these
requirements.
So my question is -- do Flash developers need to do something "extra" to
Flash components to get them to meet these requirements, or are the
vendors I'm dealing with just not coding their Flash correctly?
With HTML, I'm confident in pointing out mistakes that developers make.
Even if the HTML developer doesn't know that my company cares about
accessibility, coding a data table using TDs instead of THs for the
column headers is simply wrong. Sure, they can make the TD column
headers look bold and centered using styles, but it's technically
incorrect. And this is a case that if they did it correctly, even not
knowing anything about accessiblity, it would end up being more
accessible. Also, I wouldn't consider it to be asking for something
"extra" to request that the developer redo it with THs.
Basically, I want to know if the Flash developers I'm working with are
sweeping dirt under the rugs and calling the house clean, or am I
expecting them to do the windows?
Thanks,
David Ashleydale
From: Vivek Gaikwad
Date: Sun, Jul 05 2009 11:25PM
Subject: Re: Flash Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
Hello,
ADOBE has provided a list of accessible components with Flash. These
components works perfectly fine with JAWS.
You can get the list of accessible components in flash here:
http://livedocs.adobe.com/flash/9.0/UsingFlash/help.html?content=WSd60f23110
762d6b883b18f10cb1fe1af6-7c27.html
Flash components make the flash movie inaccessible by trapping the focus is
NOT true. If we follow best practices for accessible flash, we can certainly
make flash accessible.
We need to implement the accessibility right from the beginning of the
development. If we try to implement it once the development is done, it's
almost a 50% rework on the project as the developer has not kept
accessibility in mind while working on the project which leads to a lot of
unwanted controls/text in the movie. A normal user won't even come to know
what and how is used to make the flash movie look so good. But when it comes
to a screen reader, there is no escape; the screen reader will catch all the
unwanted things in the movie and present it to the end user.
To avoid this, the developers must be educated to use the screen reader and
other testing tools in order to do the basic testing at their end.
Making flash accessible is not a difficult thing but it requires logic and
patience.
Have look at the blog to get an idea of flash and accessibility. Myself
being a developer, you can get a developers point of view on flash and
accessibility. :)
http://barrierbreak.com/blog/?cat=15
Thanks & Regards
Vivek Gaikwad | Team Lead - Accessible e-learning
Net Systems Informatics
India: +91 (22) 2686 0485/86 | ext: 23
Web: http://www.n-syst.com
Knowledge Management | Accessibility |Our Showcase
Please don't print this email unless you really need to. This will preserve
trees on our planet.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rothschild, Joseph T. (CDC/CCHIS/NCHM) (CTR) [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 6:18 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Flash Accessibility
Flash can be made quite accessible, however most developers don't have
the tools to properly test them.
What we've discovered is that many of the flash components that come
shipped with Flash make the flash movie inaccessible by causing flash to
trap focus. The obvious solution of using the Accessibility pane
properties in addition to basic AS accessibility coding solves many of
the issues, but it often comes down to frequent testing using a variety
of screen readers and browsers.
So in short, it's your developers.
Joe
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:::::::::::::::::::::::
.:: Joseph Rothschild ::.
.:: Pixels Misshapen, Not Stirred ::.
.:: 508 Accessibility Specialist / New Media Developer ::.
.:: Contractor with Northrop Grumman ::.
.:: CDC National Center for Health Marketing ::.
.:: Division of eHealth Marketing - New Media Group ::.
.:: Office. 404.498.1140 ::.
.:: Mobile. 858.204.8105 ::.
.:: SL. Fender Soderstrom ::.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of David
Ashleydale
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 6:56 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] Flash Accessibility
Hi,
I'm not a Flash developer so I wanted to ask for an opinion of those of
you that are. I often receive Flash tools and movies from vendors that
don't meet these two basic accessibility requirements: usable without a
mouse, and readable by JAWS. Using the Tab key, the focus just jumps
right over the Flash -- I can't Tab to any of the active elements within
the Flash. And when I listen to them with JAWS, none of the text that I
see within the Flash is read out loud. I usually hear something like,
"Flash movie begin.
Flash movie end."
I have seen Flash components made that satisfy both of these
requirements.
So my question is -- do Flash developers need to do something "extra" to
Flash components to get them to meet these requirements, or are the
vendors I'm dealing with just not coding their Flash correctly?
With HTML, I'm confident in pointing out mistakes that developers make.
Even if the HTML developer doesn't know that my company cares about
accessibility, coding a data table using TDs instead of THs for the
column headers is simply wrong. Sure, they can make the TD column
headers look bold and centered using styles, but it's technically
incorrect. And this is a case that if they did it correctly, even not
knowing anything about accessiblity, it would end up being more
accessible. Also, I wouldn't consider it to be asking for something
"extra" to request that the developer redo it with THs.
Basically, I want to know if the Flash developers I'm working with are
sweeping dirt under the rugs and calling the house clean, or am I
expecting them to do the windows?
Thanks,
David Ashleydale
From: E.J. Zufelt
Date: Mon, Jul 06 2009 12:00AM
Subject: Re: Flash Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
Good evening,
A quick point about Flash accessibility. For screen-reader users of
the Mac and Linux Flash is not accessible. I believe that this holds
true for some Windows screen-readers as well.
HTH,
Everett
Follow me on Twitter
http://twitter.com/ezufelt
View my LinkedIn Profile
http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
On 6-Jul-09, at 1:19 AM, Vivek Gaikwad wrote:
> Hello,
>
>
>
> ADOBE has provided a list of accessible components with Flash. These
> components works perfectly fine with JAWS.
>
>
>
> You can get the list of accessible components in flash here:
> http://livedocs.adobe.com/flash/9.0/UsingFlash/help.html?content=WSd60f23110
> 762d6b883b18f10cb1fe1af6-7c27.html
>
>
>
> Flash components make the flash movie inaccessible by trapping the
> focus is
> NOT true. If we follow best practices for accessible flash, we can
> certainly
> make flash accessible.
>
>
>
> We need to implement the accessibility right from the beginning of the
> development. If we try to implement it once the development is done,
> it's
> almost a 50% rework on the project as the developer has not kept
> accessibility in mind while working on the project which leads to a
> lot of
> unwanted controls/text in the movie. A normal user won't even come
> to know
> what and how is used to make the flash movie look so good. But when
> it comes
> to a screen reader, there is no escape; the screen reader will catch
> all the
> unwanted things in the movie and present it to the end user.
>
>
>
> To avoid this, the developers must be educated to use the screen
> reader and
> other testing tools in order to do the basic testing at their end.
>
>
>
> Making flash accessible is not a difficult thing but it requires
> logic and
> patience.
>
>
>
> Have look at the blog to get an idea of flash and accessibility.
> Myself
> being a developer, you can get a developers point of view on flash and
> accessibility. :)
>
> http://barrierbreak.com/blog/?cat=15
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks & Regards
>
> Vivek Gaikwad | Team Lead - Accessible e-learning
>
> Net Systems Informatics
>
> India: +91 (22) 2686 0485/86 | ext: 23
>
> Web: http://www.n-syst.com
>
>
>
> Knowledge Management | Accessibility |Our Showcase
>
>
> Please don't print this email unless you really need to. This will
> preserve
> trees on our planet.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rothschild, Joseph T. (CDC/CCHIS/NCHM) (CTR) [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> ]
> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 6:18 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Flash Accessibility
>
>
>
> Flash can be made quite accessible, however most developers don't have
>
> the tools to properly test them.
>
>
>
> What we've discovered is that many of the flash components that come
>
> shipped with Flash make the flash movie inaccessible by causing
> flash to
>
> trap focus. The obvious solution of using the Accessibility pane
>
> properties in addition to basic AS accessibility coding solves many of
>
> the issues, but it often comes down to frequent testing using a
> variety
>
> of screen readers and browsers.
>
>
>
> So in short, it's your developers.
>
>
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>
> :::::::::::::::::::::::
>
> .:: Joseph Rothschild ::.
>
> .:: Pixels Misshapen, Not Stirred ::.
>
> .:: 508 Accessibility Specialist / New Media Developer ::.
>
> .:: Contractor with Northrop Grumman ::.
>
> .:: CDC National Center for Health Marketing ::.
>
> .:: Division of eHealth Marketing - New Media Group ::.
>
> .:: Office. 404.498.1140 ::.
>
> .:: Mobile. 858.204.8105 ::.
>
> .:: SL. Fender Soderstrom ::.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of David
>
> Ashleydale
>
> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 6:56 PM
>
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> Subject: [WebAIM] Flash Accessibility
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I'm not a Flash developer so I wanted to ask for an opinion of those
> of
>
> you that are. I often receive Flash tools and movies from vendors that
>
> don't meet these two basic accessibility requirements: usable
> without a
>
> mouse, and readable by JAWS. Using the Tab key, the focus just jumps
>
> right over the Flash -- I can't Tab to any of the active elements
> within
>
> the Flash. And when I listen to them with JAWS, none of the text
> that I
>
> see within the Flash is read out loud. I usually hear something like,
>
> "Flash movie begin.
>
> Flash movie end."
>
>
>
> I have seen Flash components made that satisfy both of these
>
> requirements.
>
> So my question is -- do Flash developers need to do something
> "extra" to
>
> Flash components to get them to meet these requirements, or are the
>
> vendors I'm dealing with just not coding their Flash correctly?
>
>
>
> With HTML, I'm confident in pointing out mistakes that developers
> make.
>
> Even if the HTML developer doesn't know that my company cares about
>
> accessibility, coding a data table using TDs instead of THs for the
>
> column headers is simply wrong. Sure, they can make the TD column
>
> headers look bold and centered using styles, but it's technically
>
> incorrect. And this is a case that if they did it correctly, even not
>
> knowing anything about accessiblity, it would end up being more
>
> accessible. Also, I wouldn't consider it to be asking for something
>
> "extra" to request that the developer redo it with THs.
>
>
>
> Basically, I want to know if the Flash developers I'm working with are
>
> sweeping dirt under the rugs and calling the house clean, or am I
>
> expecting them to do the windows?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> David Ashleydale
>
>
From: Egan, Bim
Date: Mon, Jul 06 2009 5:40AM
Subject: Re: Flash Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi,
Another issue currently with Flash accessibility is that it isn't
keyboard navigable within Firefox, unless this has been rectified in
Firefox 3.5, but I haven't found anything that says it has been
resolved.
Bim
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of E.J. Zufelt
Sent: 06 July 2009 06:56
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Flash Accessibility
Good evening,
A quick point about Flash accessibility. For screen-reader users of
the Mac and Linux Flash is not accessible. I believe that this holds
true for some Windows screen-readers as well.
HTH,
Everett
Follow me on Twitter
http://twitter.com/ezufelt
View my LinkedIn Profile
http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
On 6-Jul-09, at 1:19 AM, Vivek Gaikwad wrote:
> Hello,
>
>
>
> ADOBE has provided a list of accessible components with Flash. These
> components works perfectly fine with JAWS.
>
>
>
> You can get the list of accessible components in flash here:
>
http://livedocs.adobe.com/flash/9.0/UsingFlash/help.html?content=WSd60f2
3110
> 762d6b883b18f10cb1fe1af6-7c27.html
>
>
>
> Flash components make the flash movie inaccessible by trapping the
> focus is
> NOT true. If we follow best practices for accessible flash, we can
> certainly
> make flash accessible.
>
>
>
> We need to implement the accessibility right from the beginning of the
> development. If we try to implement it once the development is done,
> it's
> almost a 50% rework on the project as the developer has not kept
> accessibility in mind while working on the project which leads to a
> lot of
> unwanted controls/text in the movie. A normal user won't even come
> to know
> what and how is used to make the flash movie look so good. But when
> it comes
> to a screen reader, there is no escape; the screen reader will catch
> all the
> unwanted things in the movie and present it to the end user.
>
>
>
> To avoid this, the developers must be educated to use the screen
> reader and
> other testing tools in order to do the basic testing at their end.
>
>
>
> Making flash accessible is not a difficult thing but it requires
> logic and
> patience.
>
>
>
> Have look at the blog to get an idea of flash and accessibility.
> Myself
> being a developer, you can get a developers point of view on flash and
> accessibility. :)
>
> http://barrierbreak.com/blog/?cat=15
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks & Regards
>
> Vivek Gaikwad | Team Lead - Accessible e-learning
>
> Net Systems Informatics
>
> India: +91 (22) 2686 0485/86 | ext: 23
>
> Web: http://www.n-syst.com
>
>
>
> Knowledge Management | Accessibility |Our Showcase
>
>
> Please don't print this email unless you really need to. This will
> preserve
> trees on our planet.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rothschild, Joseph T. (CDC/CCHIS/NCHM) (CTR)
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> ]
> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 6:18 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Flash Accessibility
>
>
>
> Flash can be made quite accessible, however most developers don't have
>
> the tools to properly test them.
>
>
>
> What we've discovered is that many of the flash components that come
>
> shipped with Flash make the flash movie inaccessible by causing
> flash to
>
> trap focus. The obvious solution of using the Accessibility pane
>
> properties in addition to basic AS accessibility coding solves many of
>
> the issues, but it often comes down to frequent testing using a
> variety
>
> of screen readers and browsers.
>
>
>
> So in short, it's your developers.
>
>
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>
> :::::::::::::::::::::::
>
> .:: Joseph Rothschild ::.
>
> .:: Pixels Misshapen, Not Stirred ::.
>
> .:: 508 Accessibility Specialist / New Media Developer ::.
>
> .:: Contractor with Northrop Grumman ::.
>
> .:: CDC National Center for Health Marketing ::.
>
> .:: Division of eHealth Marketing - New Media Group ::.
>
> .:: Office. 404.498.1140 ::.
>
> .:: Mobile. 858.204.8105 ::.
>
> .:: SL. Fender Soderstrom ::.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of David
>
> Ashleydale
>
> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 6:56 PM
>
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> Subject: [WebAIM] Flash Accessibility
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I'm not a Flash developer so I wanted to ask for an opinion of those
> of
>
> you that are. I often receive Flash tools and movies from vendors that
>
> don't meet these two basic accessibility requirements: usable
> without a
>
> mouse, and readable by JAWS. Using the Tab key, the focus just jumps
>
> right over the Flash -- I can't Tab to any of the active elements
> within
>
> the Flash. And when I listen to them with JAWS, none of the text
> that I
>
> see within the Flash is read out loud. I usually hear something like,
>
> "Flash movie begin.
>
> Flash movie end."
>
>
>
> I have seen Flash components made that satisfy both of these
>
> requirements.
>
> So my question is -- do Flash developers need to do something
> "extra" to
>
> Flash components to get them to meet these requirements, or are the
>
> vendors I'm dealing with just not coding their Flash correctly?
>
>
>
> With HTML, I'm confident in pointing out mistakes that developers
> make.
>
> Even if the HTML developer doesn't know that my company cares about
>
> accessibility, coding a data table using TDs instead of THs for the
>
> column headers is simply wrong. Sure, they can make the TD column
>
> headers look bold and centered using styles, but it's technically
>
> incorrect. And this is a case that if they did it correctly, even not
>
> knowing anything about accessiblity, it would end up being more
>
> accessible. Also, I wouldn't consider it to be asking for something
>
> "extra" to request that the developer redo it with THs.
>
>
>
> Basically, I want to know if the Flash developers I'm working with are
>
> sweeping dirt under the rugs and calling the house clean, or am I
>
> expecting them to do the windows?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> David Ashleydale
>
>
From: Jon Gunderson
Date: Mon, Jul 06 2009 8:50AM
Subject: Re: Flash Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
There are some Flash technologies, like AIR. that are currently inaccessible on all platforms.
It takes a lot of developer skill and knowledge to improve the accessibility of Flash applications. Most Flash developers do not have this knowledge or skill or the interest and/or time to learn about accessibility.
If we are going to rely on knowledge and skill for accessibility in Flash applications, Flash will not be very accessible in practice.
We need to work with companies creating Flash authoring tools and development environments to make sure people creating Flash objects and applicatons build-in the accessibility by default, so it is easier to create accessible, rather than inaccessible Flash objects and applications.
Jon
---- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 01:56:11 -0400
>From: "E.J. Zufelt" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Flash Accessibility
>To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>Good evening,
>
>A quick point about Flash accessibility. For screen-reader users of
>the Mac and Linux Flash is not accessible. I believe that this holds
>true for some Windows screen-readers as well.
>
>HTH,
>Everett
>
>Follow me on Twitter
>http://twitter.com/ezufelt
>
>View my LinkedIn Profile
>http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
>
>
>
>On 6-Jul-09, at 1:19 AM, Vivek Gaikwad wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>>
>> ADOBE has provided a list of accessible components with Flash. These
>> components works perfectly fine with JAWS.
>>
>>
>>
>> You can get the list of accessible components in flash here:
>> http://livedocs.adobe.com/flash/9.0/UsingFlash/help.html?content=WSd60f23110
>> 762d6b883b18f10cb1fe1af6-7c27.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Flash components make the flash movie inaccessible by trapping the
>> focus is
>> NOT true. If we follow best practices for accessible flash, we can
>> certainly
>> make flash accessible.
>>
>>
>>
>> We need to implement the accessibility right from the beginning of the
>> development. If we try to implement it once the development is done,
>> it's
>> almost a 50% rework on the project as the developer has not kept
>> accessibility in mind while working on the project which leads to a
>> lot of
>> unwanted controls/text in the movie. A normal user won't even come
>> to know
>> what and how is used to make the flash movie look so good. But when
>> it comes
>> to a screen reader, there is no escape; the screen reader will catch
>> all the
>> unwanted things in the movie and present it to the end user.
>>
>>
>>
>> To avoid this, the developers must be educated to use the screen
>> reader and
>> other testing tools in order to do the basic testing at their end.
>>
>>
>>
>> Making flash accessible is not a difficult thing but it requires
>> logic and
>> patience.
>>
>>
>>
>> Have look at the blog to get an idea of flash and accessibility.
>> Myself
>> being a developer, you can get a developers point of view on flash and
>> accessibility. :)
>>
>> http://barrierbreak.com/blog/?cat=15
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks & Regards
>>
>> Vivek Gaikwad | Team Lead - Accessible e-learning
>>
>> Net Systems Informatics
>>
>> India: +91 (22) 2686 0485/86 | ext: 23
>>
>> Web: http://www.n-syst.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Knowledge Management | Accessibility |Our Showcase
>>
>>
>> Please don't print this email unless you really need to. This will
>> preserve
>> trees on our planet.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rothschild, Joseph T. (CDC/CCHIS/NCHM) (CTR) [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> ]
>> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 6:18 AM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Flash Accessibility
>>
>>
>>
>> Flash can be made quite accessible, however most developers don't have
>>
>> the tools to properly test them.
>>
>>
>>
>> What we've discovered is that many of the flash components that come
>>
>> shipped with Flash make the flash movie inaccessible by causing
>> flash to
>>
>> trap focus. The obvious solution of using the Accessibility pane
>>
>> properties in addition to basic AS accessibility coding solves many of
>>
>> the issues, but it often comes down to frequent testing using a
>> variety
>>
>> of screen readers and browsers.
>>
>>
>>
>> So in short, it's your developers.
>>
>>
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>>
>> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>>
>> :::::::::::::::::::::::
>>
>> .:: Joseph Rothschild ::.
>>
>> .:: Pixels Misshapen, Not Stirred ::.
>>
>> .:: 508 Accessibility Specialist / New Media Developer ::.
>>
>> .:: Contractor with Northrop Grumman ::.
>>
>> .:: CDC National Center for Health Marketing ::.
>>
>> .:: Division of eHealth Marketing - New Media Group ::.
>>
>> .:: Office. 404.498.1140 ::.
>>
>> .:: Mobile. 858.204.8105 ::.
>>
>> .:: SL. Fender Soderstrom ::.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of David
>>
>> Ashleydale
>>
>> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 6:56 PM
>>
>> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>
>> Subject: [WebAIM] Flash Accessibility
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not a Flash developer so I wanted to ask for an opinion of those
>> of
>>
>> you that are. I often receive Flash tools and movies from vendors that
>>
>> don't meet these two basic accessibility requirements: usable
>> without a
>>
>> mouse, and readable by JAWS. Using the Tab key, the focus just jumps
>>
>> right over the Flash -- I can't Tab to any of the active elements
>> within
>>
>> the Flash. And when I listen to them with JAWS, none of the text
>> that I
>>
>> see within the Flash is read out loud. I usually hear something like,
>>
>> "Flash movie begin.
>>
>> Flash movie end."
>>
>>
>>
>> I have seen Flash components made that satisfy both of these
>>
>> requirements.
>>
>> So my question is -- do Flash developers need to do something
>> "extra" to
>>
>> Flash components to get them to meet these requirements, or are the
>>
>> vendors I'm dealing with just not coding their Flash correctly?
>>
>>
>>
>> With HTML, I'm confident in pointing out mistakes that developers
>> make.
>>
>> Even if the HTML developer doesn't know that my company cares about
>>
>> accessibility, coding a data table using TDs instead of THs for the
>>
>> column headers is simply wrong. Sure, they can make the TD column
>>
>> headers look bold and centered using styles, but it's technically
>>
>> incorrect. And this is a case that if they did it correctly, even not
>>
>> knowing anything about accessiblity, it would end up being more
>>
>> accessible. Also, I wouldn't consider it to be asking for something
>>
>> "extra" to request that the developer redo it with THs.
>>
>>
>>
>> Basically, I want to know if the Flash developers I'm working with are
>>
>> sweeping dirt under the rugs and calling the house clean, or am I
>>
>> expecting them to do the windows?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> David Ashleydale
>>
>>
From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Mon, Jul 06 2009 9:30AM
Subject: Re: Flash Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
Some comments within...
There are some Flash technologies, like AIR. that are currently inaccessible on all platforms.
To clarify this comment, AIR is currently inaccessible to assistive technology users on all platforms, but applications built with AIR are not completely inaccessible to all users.
It takes a lot of developer skill and knowledge to improve the accessibility of Flash applications. Most Flash developers do not have this knowledge or skill or the interest and/or time to learn about accessibility.
I might make the same comment related to all but the most simple HTML web pages, and certainly can for HTML applications. There are extra tasks associated with high-quality web application development, and if you look at the web in general there is a lot of knowledge/skill/interest/time lacking with regard to accessibility in all corners.
We need to work with companies creating Flash authoring tools and development environments to make sure people creating Flash objects and applicatons build-in the accessibility by default, so it is easier to create accessible, rather than inaccessible Flash objects and applications.
I'm happy to work toward that goal. One good example to point out is the FLVPlayback media player in the Flash authoring tool - it is accessible by default for keyboard users, screen reader users, screen magnifier users, and other AT users, but yes, it is on windows.
>> mouse, and readable by JAWS. Using the Tab key, the focus just jumps
>>
>> right over the Flash -- I can't Tab to any of the active elements
>> within
You should check out http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility/2009/06/evaluating_flash_and_flex_cont.html for evaluation pointers and http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility/2009/04/firefox_focus_and_actual_links_1.html for a method to make focus not skip the flash content in FireFox.
I hope that these short answers help clarify some points. I too would like to see a magic "accessibility button" that would make any application that is made fully accessible with no effort on the part of the developer, and for that matter I'd like it to be fully secure, localized, have a small memory footprint, etc. - we may never reach this without any developer effort, but we should keep trying to get closer, which is what I believe Jon was driving at in his message.
AWK
From: Geof Collis
Date: Mon, Jul 06 2009 10:10AM
Subject: Re: Flash Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
I'm curious, as a former Flash Developer(MX) before I lost my
eyesight, is the program accessible to screen readers?
cheers
Geof
At 11:27 AM 7/6/2009, you wrote:
>Some comments within...
>
>There are some Flash technologies, like AIR. that are currently
>inaccessible on all platforms.
>
>To clarify this comment, AIR is currently inaccessible to assistive
>technology users on all platforms, but applications built with AIR
>are not completely inaccessible to all users.
>
>It takes a lot of developer skill and knowledge to improve the
>accessibility of Flash applications. Most Flash developers do not
>have this knowledge or skill or the interest and/or time to learn
>about accessibility.
>
>I might make the same comment related to all but the most simple
>HTML web pages, and certainly can for HTML applications. There are
>extra tasks associated with high-quality web application
>development, and if you look at the web in general there is a lot of
>knowledge/skill/interest/time lacking with regard to accessibility
>in all corners.
>
>We need to work with companies creating Flash authoring tools and
>development environments to make sure people creating Flash objects
>and applicatons build-in the accessibility by default, so it is
>easier to create accessible, rather than inaccessible Flash objects
>and applications.
>
>I'm happy to work toward that goal. One good example to point out is
>the FLVPlayback media player in the Flash authoring tool - it is
>accessible by default for keyboard users, screen reader users,
>screen magnifier users, and other AT users, but yes, it is on windows.
>
> >> mouse, and readable by JAWS. Using the Tab key, the focus just jumps
> >>
> >> right over the Flash -- I can't Tab to any of the active elements
> >> within
>
>You should check out
>http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility/2009/06/evaluating_flash_and_flex_cont.html
>for evaluation pointers and
>http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility/2009/04/firefox_focus_and_actual_links_1.html
>for a method to make focus not skip the flash content in FireFox.
>
>I hope that these short answers help clarify some points. I too
>would like to see a magic "accessibility button" that would make any
>application that is made fully accessible with no effort on the part
>of the developer, and for that matter I'd like it to be fully
>secure, localized, have a small memory footprint, etc. - we may
>never reach this without any developer effort, but we should keep
>trying to get closer, which is what I believe Jon was driving at in
>his message.
>
>AWK
>
>
>
From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Mon, Jul 06 2009 10:25AM
Subject: Re: Flash Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
Not very - the authoring tool is highly dependent on the timeline and positioning objects, so it is very hard for a screen reader user. However, you may be interested in Flex and FlexBuilder is much more accessible, and tends to be much more code-focused.
Thanks,
AWK
Andrew Kirkpatrick
Senior Product Manager, Accessibility
Adobe Systems
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Geof Collis
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 12:07 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Flash Accessibility
I'm curious, as a former Flash Developer(MX) before I lost my
eyesight, is the program accessible to screen readers?
cheers
Geof
At 11:27 AM 7/6/2009, you wrote:
>Some comments within...
>
>There are some Flash technologies, like AIR. that are currently
>inaccessible on all platforms.
>
>To clarify this comment, AIR is currently inaccessible to assistive
>technology users on all platforms, but applications built with AIR
>are not completely inaccessible to all users.
>
>It takes a lot of developer skill and knowledge to improve the
>accessibility of Flash applications. Most Flash developers do not
>have this knowledge or skill or the interest and/or time to learn
>about accessibility.
>
>I might make the same comment related to all but the most simple
>HTML web pages, and certainly can for HTML applications. There are
>extra tasks associated with high-quality web application
>development, and if you look at the web in general there is a lot of
>knowledge/skill/interest/time lacking with regard to accessibility
>in all corners.
>
>We need to work with companies creating Flash authoring tools and
>development environments to make sure people creating Flash objects
>and applicatons build-in the accessibility by default, so it is
>easier to create accessible, rather than inaccessible Flash objects
>and applications.
>
>I'm happy to work toward that goal. One good example to point out is
>the FLVPlayback media player in the Flash authoring tool - it is
>accessible by default for keyboard users, screen reader users,
>screen magnifier users, and other AT users, but yes, it is on windows.
>
> >> mouse, and readable by JAWS. Using the Tab key, the focus just jumps
> >>
> >> right over the Flash -- I can't Tab to any of the active elements
> >> within
>
>You should check out
>http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility/2009/06/evaluating_flash_and_flex_cont.html
>for evaluation pointers and
>http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility/2009/04/firefox_focus_and_actual_links_1.html
>for a method to make focus not skip the flash content in FireFox.
>
>I hope that these short answers help clarify some points. I too
>would like to see a magic "accessibility button" that would make any
>application that is made fully accessible with no effort on the part
>of the developer, and for that matter I'd like it to be fully
>secure, localized, have a small memory footprint, etc. - we may
>never reach this without any developer effort, but we should keep
>trying to get closer, which is what I believe Jon was driving at in
>his message.
>
>AWK
>
>
>
From: Travis Roth
Date: Mon, Jul 06 2009 11:35AM
Subject: Re: Flash Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
A screen reader user can use Eclipse/Flex Builder to code Flex.
A note on this though: using JAWS I've not found a way to use the UI
designer.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Andrew
Kirkpatrick
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 11:25 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Flash Accessibility
Not very - the authoring tool is highly dependent on the timeline and
positioning objects, so it is very hard for a screen reader user. However,
you may be interested in Flex and FlexBuilder is much more accessible, and
tends to be much more code-focused.
Thanks,
AWK
Andrew Kirkpatrick
Senior Product Manager, Accessibility
Adobe Systems
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Geof Collis
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 12:07 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Flash Accessibility
I'm curious, as a former Flash Developer(MX) before I lost my
eyesight, is the program accessible to screen readers?
cheers
Geof
At 11:27 AM 7/6/2009, you wrote:
>Some comments within...
>
>There are some Flash technologies, like AIR. that are currently
>inaccessible on all platforms.
>
>To clarify this comment, AIR is currently inaccessible to assistive
>technology users on all platforms, but applications built with AIR
>are not completely inaccessible to all users.
>
>It takes a lot of developer skill and knowledge to improve the
>accessibility of Flash applications. Most Flash developers do not
>have this knowledge or skill or the interest and/or time to learn
>about accessibility.
>
>I might make the same comment related to all but the most simple
>HTML web pages, and certainly can for HTML applications. There are
>extra tasks associated with high-quality web application
>development, and if you look at the web in general there is a lot of
>knowledge/skill/interest/time lacking with regard to accessibility
>in all corners.
>
>We need to work with companies creating Flash authoring tools and
>development environments to make sure people creating Flash objects
>and applicatons build-in the accessibility by default, so it is
>easier to create accessible, rather than inaccessible Flash objects
>and applications.
>
>I'm happy to work toward that goal. One good example to point out is
>the FLVPlayback media player in the Flash authoring tool - it is
>accessible by default for keyboard users, screen reader users,
>screen magnifier users, and other AT users, but yes, it is on windows.
>
> >> mouse, and readable by JAWS. Using the Tab key, the focus just jumps
> >>
> >> right over the Flash -- I can't Tab to any of the active elements
> >> within
>
>You should check out
>http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility/2009/06/evaluating_flash_and_flex_cont
.html
>for evaluation pointers and
>http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility/2009/04/firefox_focus_and_actual_links
_1.html
>for a method to make focus not skip the flash content in FireFox.
>
>I hope that these short answers help clarify some points. I too
>would like to see a magic "accessibility button" that would make any
>application that is made fully accessible with no effort on the part
>of the developer, and for that matter I'd like it to be fully
>secure, localized, have a small memory footprint, etc. - we may
>never reach this without any developer effort, but we should keep
>trying to get closer, which is what I believe Jon was driving at in
>his message.
>
>AWK
>
>
>
From: John E. Brandt
Date: Tue, Jul 07 2009 6:45PM
Subject: Re: Flash Accessibility
← Previous message | No next message
You might want to suggest all of your Flash developers view this:
http://www.adobe.com/accessibility/products/flash/tutorial/
John E. Brandt
Web Design, Development, Consultation
Augusta, Maine USA
www.jebswebs.com
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
207-622-7937
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of David Ashleydale
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 6:56 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] Flash Accessibility
Hi,
I'm not a Flash developer so I wanted to ask for an opinion of those of you
that are. I often receive Flash tools and movies from vendors that don't
meet these two basic accessibility requirements: usable without a mouse, and
readable by JAWS. Using the Tab key, the focus just jumps right over the
Flash -- I can't Tab to any of the active elements within the Flash. And
when I listen to them with JAWS, none of the text that I see within the
Flash is read out loud. I usually hear something like, "Flash movie begin.
Flash movie end."
I have seen Flash components made that satisfy both of these requirements.
So my question is -- do Flash developers need to do something "extra" to
Flash components to get them to meet these requirements, or are the vendors
I'm dealing with just not coding their Flash correctly?
With HTML, I'm confident in pointing out mistakes that developers make. Even
if the HTML developer doesn't know that my company cares about
accessibility, coding a data table using TDs instead of THs for the column
headers is simply wrong. Sure, they can make the TD column headers look bold
and centered using styles, but it's technically incorrect. And this is a
case that if they did it correctly, even not knowing anything about
accessiblity, it would end up being more accessible. Also, I wouldn't
consider it to be asking for something "extra" to request that the developer
redo it with THs.
Basically, I want to know if the Flash developers I'm working with are
sweeping dirt under the rugs and calling the house clean, or am I expecting
them to do the windows?
Thanks,
David Ashleydale