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From: Gijs Veyfeyken
Date: Tue, Jan 22 2013 4:58AM
Subject: PDF language not recognized by screenreaders
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Hi,

By following Adobe's guidelines for creating accessible PDF's with InDesign (CS6), I get a perfectly tagged and structured PDF with minimal effort.
There is only one thing I cannot fix. Getting screenreaders (I tested with Jaws & NVDA) to read the PDF in the specified language (Dutch).

In Acrobat Pro X, I manually set the language to "Dutch" in the document properties.
Screenshot: http://images.anysurfer.be/2013-01-22_09-54-38.png

In the tags tree in Acrobat, I've deleted the language property "en-GB" on the root tag <document> which is assigned by InDesign automatically.
Screenshot: http://images.anysurfer.be/2013-01-22_09-53-51.png

Still, NVDA reads the PDF in English. Jaws starts the PDF by saying "American English", then reads it in Dutch.
Does that mean there are other hidden language attributes automatically set to English that I need to delete?
Am I missing something or is this a screenreader problem?

Kind regards,

Gijs Veyfeyken

From: Duff Johnson
Date: Tue, Jan 22 2013 7:19AM
Subject: Re: PDF language not recognized by screenreaders
← Previous message | Next message →

Gijs,

If the content itself (as opposed to the tags) has a language attribute your AT may be reading it.

To discover if such attributes are present, go to the "Content" tab in Acrobat Professional. Within a content container, select a text run. Get that object's properties and you'll see whether or not a language was set.

This screen-shot shows the relevant dialog in Acrobat.

http://duff-johnson.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/content-language.png

If you find the content's (as opposed to the tag's) language attribute has been set to English then this is your problem as it will override the tags (with some software). Content attributes should be manageable in InDesign.

I'd love to know what you find...

Duff Johnson

ISO 32000 Intl. Project Co-Leader, US Chairman
ISO 14289 US Chairman
PDF Association Vice-Chairman

+1 617 283 4226
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://duff-johnson.com

From: Gijs Veyfeyken
Date: Wed, Jan 23 2013 4:03AM
Subject: Re: PDF language not recognized by screenreaders
← Previous message | Next message →

Thank you Duff. You've pointed me in the right direction.

InDesign automatically assigns a language to a paragraph style.
Since my version of InDesign is English, it's set to English UK.

Screenshot dialog Paragraph Style Options > tab Advanced Character Formats
http://images.anysurfer.be/2013-01-23_09-10-07.png

If I open a new document and set the language of the default "basic paragraph" to Dutch,
all other paragraph styles created from that point on, will adopt this setting because they are based on the "basic paragraph".

The items in the content pane of Acrobat now have the correct language property.
Screenshot: http://images.anysurfer.be/Screen_Shot_2013-01-23_at_11.44.20.png

In conclusion:
According to Adobe, setting the language of the PDF on the document level in Acrobat, should do the trick.
This is false. The language properties on content level overrides the language on document level.
As always, making sure the source document is correct (in this case the language of Paragraph Styles in InDesign) avoids problems later on.

Kind regards,

Gijs

---
Gijs Veyfeyken
AnySurfer - towards an accessible internet
A project of Blindenzorg Licht en Liefde vzw
Kunstlaan 24 box 21
1000 Brussels
Belgium
www.anysurfer.be


On 22-jan.-2013, at 20:00, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = wrote:

> Send WebAIM-Forum mailing list submissions to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of WebAIM-Forum digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Accessibility and geographical maps (Robert Jaquiss)
> 2. Re: Accessibility and geographical maps (Ron Stewart)
> 3. How best to notify screen readers of updated section of page
> (aria live regions?) (Birkir R. Gunnarsson)
> 4. PDF language not recognized by screenreaders (Gijs Veyfeyken)
> 5. Re: How best to notify screen readers of updated section of
> page (aria live regions?) (Steve Green)
> 6. Re: How best to notify screen readers of updated section of
> page (aria live regions?) (Steve Green)
> 7. Re: PDF language not recognized by screenreaders (Duff Johnson)
> 8. Re: Accessibility and geographical maps
> (Stanzel, Susan - FSA, Kansas City, MO)
> 9. GIS (Stanzel, Susan - FSA, Kansas City, MO)
>
> From: "Robert Jaquiss" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
> Date: 22 januari 2013 00:07:00 CET
> To: "'WebAIM Discussion List'" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> Hello:
>
> The audio Graphing Calculator (AGC) from ViewPlus Technologies is only
> useful for displaying graphs generated by equations or for displaying data
> points.
>
> Regards,
> Robert
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jake Joehl
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 9:10 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
> What about the Audio Graphing Calculator from Viewplus Technologies?
> I've never used it but I've heard it demonstrated. Would this be another
> alternative?
> Jake
> Original message:
>> Hello:
>
>> Providing map data accessibly is a big subject. The closest solution
>> there is for this problem comes from ViewPlus Technologies. Their website
>> is: www.viewplus.com A Tiger embosser is used to emboss a paper copy of
> the
>> map. A few braille labels can be placed on a braille map. It is possible
>> with lots of work to use a touch tablet so users can touch a place on a
> map
>> and hear what they have touched. It is possible for a user to zoom in a
> map
>> by specifying a region, and then have the Tiger print out that region in a
>> full page version. This process can iterate several times.
>
>> Another possible solution is available from Touch Graphics. Their web
>> site is www.touchgraphics.com. The TouchGraphics system uses vacuum formed
>> plastic maps and either a touch tablet or pen to provide the user
>> information. The Touch Graphics approach is only useful if many copies of
>> the same image will be needed. You may contact me off list for more
>> information.
>
>> Regards,
>
>> Robert
>
>> Robert Jaquiss
>> Email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of COLLIER, Jason
>> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 7:08 PM
>> To: ' = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = '
>> Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
>> Hi,
>
>> Where I work we have lots of geographical maps that contain a lot of data.
>> Does anyone know about best practices for providing an alternative format
>> for maps?
>
>> Any information would be greatly appreciated.
>
>> Jason Collier
>> Website Project Officer. Communications and Marketing Department of Mines
>> and Petroleum
>> 100 Plain Street, East Perth, WA, 6004
>> Postal: 100 Plain Street, East Perth, WA, 6004 Tel +61 8 9222 3070
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> www.dmp.wa.gov.au<;http://www.dmp.wa.gov.au/>;
>
>
>> DISCLAIMER: This email, including any attachments, is intended only for
> use
>> by the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or personal
> information
>> and may also be the subject of legal privilege.
>> If you are not the intended recipient, you must not disclose or use the
>> information contained in it.
>> In this case, please let me know by return email, delete the message
>> permanently from your system and destroy any copies.
>
>> Before you take any action based upon advice and/or information contained
> in
>> this email you should carefully consider the advice and information and
>> consider obtaining relevant independent advice.
>> >> >> messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>> >> >> > > > >
>
>
>
>
> From: "Ron Stewart" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
> Date: 22 januari 2013 03:34:04 CET
> To: "'WebAIM Discussion List'" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> I would also look at the Phoenix from Enabling Technologies and MathTrax
> which is a free product. It really depends on what you are trying to
> accomplish, there is no silver bullet here. ViewPlus is having some
> organizational problems that at this point are causing me to recommend not
> going with their solutions. They are good, and I had a bit to do with some
> of their development so this is somewhat hard to say.
>
> Ron Stewart
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Robert Jaquiss
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 5:07 PM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
> Hello:
>
> The audio Graphing Calculator (AGC) from ViewPlus Technologies is only
> useful for displaying graphs generated by equations or for displaying data
> points.
>
> Regards,
> Robert
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jake Joehl
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 9:10 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
> What about the Audio Graphing Calculator from Viewplus Technologies?
> I've never used it but I've heard it demonstrated. Would this be another
> alternative?
> Jake
> Original message:
>> Hello:
>
>> Providing map data accessibly is a big subject. The closest
>> solution there is for this problem comes from ViewPlus Technologies.
>> Their website
>> is: www.viewplus.com A Tiger embosser is used to emboss a paper copy
>> of
> the
>> map. A few braille labels can be placed on a braille map. It is
>> possible with lots of work to use a touch tablet so users can touch a
>> place on a
> map
>> and hear what they have touched. It is possible for a user to zoom in
>> a
> map
>> by specifying a region, and then have the Tiger print out that region
>> in a full page version. This process can iterate several times.
>
>> Another possible solution is available from Touch Graphics. Their
>> web site is www.touchgraphics.com. The TouchGraphics system uses
>> vacuum formed plastic maps and either a touch tablet or pen to provide
>> the user information. The Touch Graphics approach is only useful if
>> many copies of the same image will be needed. You may contact me off
>> list for more information.
>
>> Regards,
>
>> Robert
>
>> Robert Jaquiss
>> Email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of COLLIER,
>> Jason
>> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 7:08 PM
>> To: ' = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = '
>> Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
>> Hi,
>
>> Where I work we have lots of geographical maps that contain a lot of data.
>> Does anyone know about best practices for providing an alternative
>> format for maps?
>
>> Any information would be greatly appreciated.
>
>> Jason Collier
>> Website Project Officer. Communications and Marketing Department of
>> Mines and Petroleum
>> 100 Plain Street, East Perth, WA, 6004
>> Postal: 100 Plain Street, East Perth, WA, 6004 Tel +61 8 9222 3070
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> www.dmp.wa.gov.au<;http://www.dmp.wa.gov.au/>;
>
>
>> DISCLAIMER: This email, including any attachments, is intended only
>> for
> use
>> by the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or personal
> information
>> and may also be the subject of legal privilege.
>> If you are not the intended recipient, you must not disclose or use
>> the information contained in it.
>> In this case, please let me know by return email, delete the message
>> permanently from your system and destroy any copies.
>
>> Before you take any action based upon advice and/or information
>> contained
> in
>> this email you should carefully consider the advice and information
>> and consider obtaining relevant independent advice.
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> > > messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "Birkir R. Gunnarsson" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] How best to notify screen readers of updated section of page (aria live regions?)
> Date: 22 januari 2013 12:09:19 CET
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> Hey gang
>
> I'm practicing my ARIA, but also continuing my website testing and so on.
> I have come across one situation, whose solution is not immediately
> obvious to me.
> On the page:
> http://www.islandsbanki.is
> (sorry, it is all in Icelandic, I know)
> there is an h2 headings that says "fréttir", which means (news.
> Underneath that heading is a list of two links:
> Frettir
> Greinar
> (greinar = articles).
> Below that is an area of a website with 3 to 4 stories )visually it is
> probably a payne).
> When you activate "fréttir" you get news stories, but when you
> activate "greinar" the content of that panel changes to a different
> set of stories (articles/analytics).
> I am still trying to decide what would be the best way to notify
> screen readers of either the currently active content (is it fréttir
> or greinar), obviously putting a heading on the section with the
> stories would be one way to go.
> Also how to notify screen readers when
> "content updated to greinar"
> or
> "content updated to Frettir".
> I would imagine ARIA live regions would be the ideal way to do this,
> but still can't find an example that closely enough matches this
> situation.
> I am increasingly seeing this type of displaying content, and I find
> it quite convenient as a screen reader user, as long as I follow the
> internal page updates easily.
> So any ideas, suggestions or pointers to a very similar example welcome.
> Cheers
> -B
>
>
>
>
> From: Gijs Veyfeyken < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] PDF language not recognized by screenreaders
> Date: 22 januari 2013 12:58:21 CET
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> Hi,
>
> By following Adobe's guidelines for creating accessible PDF's with InDesign (CS6), I get a perfectly tagged and structured PDF with minimal effort.
> There is only one thing I cannot fix. Getting screenreaders (I tested with Jaws & NVDA) to read the PDF in the specified language (Dutch).
>
> In Acrobat Pro X, I manually set the language to "Dutch" in the document properties.
> Screenshot: http://images.anysurfer.be/2013-01-22_09-54-38.png
>
> In the tags tree in Acrobat, I've deleted the language property "en-GB" on the root tag <document> which is assigned by InDesign automatically.
> Screenshot: http://images.anysurfer.be/2013-01-22_09-53-51.png
>
> Still, NVDA reads the PDF in English. Jaws starts the PDF by saying "American English", then reads it in Dutch.
> Does that mean there are other hidden language attributes automatically set to English that I need to delete?
> Am I missing something or is this a screenreader problem?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Gijs Veyfeyken
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] How best to notify screen readers of updated section of page (aria live regions?)
> Date: 22 januari 2013 13:13:51 CET
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> This content is in a tabbed interface. WAI-ARIA has 'tab' and 'tabpanel' roles precisely for this sort of content. I have not tested this with a screen reader so I don't know how useful these roles are in practice.
>
> Steve Green
> > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] on behalf of Birkir R. Gunnarsson [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: 22 January 2013 11:09
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: [WebAIM] How best to notify screen readers of updated section of page (aria live regions?)
>
> Hey gang
>
> I'm practicing my ARIA, but also continuing my website testing and so on.
> I have come across one situation, whose solution is not immediately
> obvious to me.
> On the page:
> http://www.islandsbanki.is
> (sorry, it is all in Icelandic, I know)
> there is an h2 headings that says "fréttir", which means (news.
> Underneath that heading is a list of two links:
> Frettir
> Greinar
> (greinar = articles).
> Below that is an area of a website with 3 to 4 stories )visually it is
> probably a payne).
> When you activate "fréttir" you get news stories, but when you
> activate "greinar" the content of that panel changes to a different
> set of stories (articles/analytics).
> I am still trying to decide what would be the best way to notify
> screen readers of either the currently active content (is it fréttir
> or greinar), obviously putting a heading on the section with the
> stories would be one way to go.
> Also how to notify screen readers when
> "content updated to greinar"
> or
> "content updated to Frettir".
> I would imagine ARIA live regions would be the ideal way to do this,
> but still can't find an example that closely enough matches this
> situation.
> I am increasingly seeing this type of displaying content, and I find
> it quite convenient as a screen reader user, as long as I follow the
> internal page updates easily.
> So any ideas, suggestions or pointers to a very similar example welcome.
> Cheers
> -B
> > > >
>
>
>
> From: Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] How best to notify screen readers of updated section of page (aria live regions?)
> Date: 22 januari 2013 13:20:35 CET
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> Here is the relevant section of the ARIA specification.
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/CR-wai-aria-20110118/roles#tabpanel
>
> > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] on behalf of Steve Green [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: 22 January 2013 12:13
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] How best to notify screen readers of updated section of page (aria live regions?)
>
> This content is in a tabbed interface. WAI-ARIA has 'tab' and 'tabpanel' roles precisely for this sort of content. I have not tested this with a screen reader so I don't know how useful these roles are in practice.
>
> Steve Green
> > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] on behalf of Birkir R. Gunnarsson [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: 22 January 2013 11:09
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: [WebAIM] How best to notify screen readers of updated section of page (aria live regions?)
>
> Hey gang
>
> I'm practicing my ARIA, but also continuing my website testing and so on.
> I have come across one situation, whose solution is not immediately
> obvious to me.
> On the page:
> http://www.islandsbanki.is
> (sorry, it is all in Icelandic, I know)
> there is an h2 headings that says "fréttir", which means (news.
> Underneath that heading is a list of two links:
> Frettir
> Greinar
> (greinar = articles).
> Below that is an area of a website with 3 to 4 stories )visually it is
> probably a payne).
> When you activate "fréttir" you get news stories, but when you
> activate "greinar" the content of that panel changes to a different
> set of stories (articles/analytics).
> I am still trying to decide what would be the best way to notify
> screen readers of either the currently active content (is it fréttir
> or greinar), obviously putting a heading on the section with the
> stories would be one way to go.
> Also how to notify screen readers when
> "content updated to greinar"
> or
> "content updated to Frettir".
> I would imagine ARIA live regions would be the ideal way to do this,
> but still can't find an example that closely enough matches this
> situation.
> I am increasingly seeing this type of displaying content, and I find
> it quite convenient as a screen reader user, as long as I follow the
> internal page updates easily.
> So any ideas, suggestions or pointers to a very similar example welcome.
> Cheers
> -B
> > > > > > >
>
>
>
> From: Duff Johnson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF language not recognized by screenreaders
> Date: 22 januari 2013 15:19:17 CET
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> Gijs,
>
> If the content itself (as opposed to the tags) has a language attribute your AT may be reading it.
>
> To discover if such attributes are present, go to the "Content" tab in Acrobat Professional. Within a content container, select a text run. Get that object's properties and you'll see whether or not a language was set.
>
> This screen-shot shows the relevant dialog in Acrobat.
>
> http://duff-johnson.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/content-language.png
>
> If you find the content's (as opposed to the tag's) language attribute has been set to English then this is your problem as it will override the tags (with some software). Content attributes should be manageable in InDesign.
>
> I'd love to know what you find...
>
> Duff Johnson
>
> ISO 32000 Intl. Project Co-Leader, US Chairman
> ISO 14289 US Chairman
> PDF Association Vice-Chairman
>
> +1 617 283 4226
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> http://duff-johnson.com
>
>
>
>
> From: "Stanzel, Susan - FSA, Kansas City, MO" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
> Date: 22 januari 2013 18:01:55 CET
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Cc: "Meacham, Steve - FSA, Kansas City, MO" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> Do any of you know accessibility aids or workarounds for dealing with GIS (Geospatial Information Systems)?
>
> Susie Stanzel
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Robert Jaquiss
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 5:07 PM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
> Hello:
>
> The audio Graphing Calculator (AGC) from ViewPlus Technologies is only useful for displaying graphs generated by equations or for displaying data points.
>
> Regards,
> Robert
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jake Joehl
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 9:10 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
> What about the Audio Graphing Calculator from Viewplus Technologies?
> I've never used it but I've heard it demonstrated. Would this be another alternative?
> Jake
> Original message:
>> Hello:
>
>> Providing map data accessibly is a big subject. The closest
>> solution there is for this problem comes from ViewPlus Technologies.
>> Their website
>> is: www.viewplus.com A Tiger embosser is used to emboss a paper copy
>> of
> the
>> map. A few braille labels can be placed on a braille map. It is
>> possible with lots of work to use a touch tablet so users can touch a
>> place on a
> map
>> and hear what they have touched. It is possible for a user to zoom in
>> a
> map
>> by specifying a region, and then have the Tiger print out that region
>> in a full page version. This process can iterate several times.
>
>> Another possible solution is available from Touch Graphics. Their
>> web site is www.touchgraphics.com. The TouchGraphics system uses
>> vacuum formed plastic maps and either a touch tablet or pen to provide
>> the user information. The Touch Graphics approach is only useful if
>> many copies of the same image will be needed. You may contact me off
>> list for more information.
>
>> Regards,
>
>> Robert
>
>> Robert Jaquiss
>> Email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of COLLIER,
>> Jason
>> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 7:08 PM
>> To: ' = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = '
>> Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
>> Hi,
>
>> Where I work we have lots of geographical maps that contain a lot of data.
>> Does anyone know about best practices for providing an alternative
>> format for maps?
>
>> Any information would be greatly appreciated.
>
>> Jason Collier
>> Website Project Officer. Communications and Marketing Department of
>> Mines and Petroleum
>> 100 Plain Street, East Perth, WA, 6004
>> Postal: 100 Plain Street, East Perth, WA, 6004 Tel +61 8 9222 3070
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> www.dmp.wa.gov.au<;http://www.dmp.wa.gov.au/>;
>
>
>> DISCLAIMER: This email, including any attachments, is intended only
>> for
> use
>> by the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or personal
> information
>> and may also be the subject of legal privilege.
>> If you are not the intended recipient, you must not disclose or use
>> the information contained in it.
>> In this case, please let me know by return email, delete the message
>> permanently from your system and destroy any copies.
>
>> Before you take any action based upon advice and/or information
>> contained
> in
>> this email you should carefully consider the advice and information
>> and consider obtaining relevant independent advice.
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
> This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete the email immediately.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "Stanzel, Susan - FSA, Kansas City, MO" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] GIS
> Date: 22 januari 2013 18:36:41 CET
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> Do any of you know work arounds for geospatial Information Systems?
>
> Susie Stanzel
>
>
>
>
> This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete the email immediately.
>
>
>
> > >

From: Trafford, Logan
Date: Wed, Jan 23 2013 6:33AM
Subject: Re: PDF language not recognized by screenreaders
← Previous message | Next message →

We do a similar thing with our bilingual Word documents. That is, the overall document will be set to English (Canada) while we will create (for example) a normal (English) style and then an equivalent
Normal (French) style by simply changing the language setting within the style itself. These then get carried over properly when converting to PDF (using Pro).

Logan


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Gijs Veyfeyken
Sent: January 23, 2013 6:03 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF language not recognized by screenreaders

Thank you Duff. You've pointed me in the right direction.

InDesign automatically assigns a language to a paragraph style.
Since my version of InDesign is English, it's set to English UK.

Screenshot dialog Paragraph Style Options > tab Advanced Character Formats http://images.anysurfer.be/2013-01-23_09-10-07.png

If I open a new document and set the language of the default "basic paragraph" to Dutch, all other paragraph styles created from that point on, will adopt this setting because they are based on the "basic paragraph".

The items in the content pane of Acrobat now have the correct language property.
Screenshot: http://images.anysurfer.be/Screen_Shot_2013-01-23_at_11.44.20.png

In conclusion:
According to Adobe, setting the language of the PDF on the document level in Acrobat, should do the trick.
This is false. The language properties on content level overrides the language on document level.
As always, making sure the source document is correct (in this case the language of Paragraph Styles in InDesign) avoids problems later on.

Kind regards,

Gijs

---
Gijs Veyfeyken
AnySurfer - towards an accessible internet A project of Blindenzorg Licht en Liefde vzw Kunstlaan 24 box 21
1000 Brussels
Belgium
www.anysurfer.be


On 22-jan.-2013, at 20:00, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = wrote:

> Send WebAIM-Forum mailing list submissions to
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>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of WebAIM-Forum digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Accessibility and geographical maps (Robert Jaquiss)
> 2. Re: Accessibility and geographical maps (Ron Stewart)
> 3. How best to notify screen readers of updated section of page
> (aria live regions?) (Birkir R. Gunnarsson)
> 4. PDF language not recognized by screenreaders (Gijs Veyfeyken)
> 5. Re: How best to notify screen readers of updated section of
> page (aria live regions?) (Steve Green)
> 6. Re: How best to notify screen readers of updated section of
> page (aria live regions?) (Steve Green)
> 7. Re: PDF language not recognized by screenreaders (Duff Johnson)
> 8. Re: Accessibility and geographical maps
> (Stanzel, Susan - FSA, Kansas City, MO)
> 9. GIS (Stanzel, Susan - FSA, Kansas City, MO)
>
> From: "Robert Jaquiss" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
> Date: 22 januari 2013 00:07:00 CET
> To: "'WebAIM Discussion List'" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> Hello:
>
> The audio Graphing Calculator (AGC) from ViewPlus Technologies is
> only useful for displaying graphs generated by equations or for
> displaying data points.
>
> Regards,
> Robert
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jake Joehl
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 9:10 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
> What about the Audio Graphing Calculator from Viewplus Technologies?
> I've never used it but I've heard it demonstrated. Would this be
> another alternative?
> Jake
> Original message:
>> Hello:
>
>> Providing map data accessibly is a big subject. The closest
>> solution there is for this problem comes from ViewPlus Technologies.
>> Their website
>> is: www.viewplus.com A Tiger embosser is used to emboss a paper copy
>> of
> the
>> map. A few braille labels can be placed on a braille map. It is
>> possible with lots of work to use a touch tablet so users can touch a
>> place on a
> map
>> and hear what they have touched. It is possible for a user to zoom in
>> a
> map
>> by specifying a region, and then have the Tiger print out that region
>> in a full page version. This process can iterate several times.
>
>> Another possible solution is available from Touch Graphics. Their
>> web site is www.touchgraphics.com. The TouchGraphics system uses
>> vacuum formed plastic maps and either a touch tablet or pen to
>> provide the user information. The Touch Graphics approach is only
>> useful if many copies of the same image will be needed. You may
>> contact me off list for more information.
>
>> Regards,
>
>> Robert
>
>> Robert Jaquiss
>> Email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of COLLIER,
>> Jason
>> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 7:08 PM
>> To: ' = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = '
>> Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
>> Hi,
>
>> Where I work we have lots of geographical maps that contain a lot of data.
>> Does anyone know about best practices for providing an alternative
>> format for maps?
>
>> Any information would be greatly appreciated.
>
>> Jason Collier
>> Website Project Officer. Communications and Marketing Department of
>> Mines and Petroleum
>> 100 Plain Street, East Perth, WA, 6004
>> Postal: 100 Plain Street, East Perth, WA, 6004 Tel +61 8 9222 3070
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> www.dmp.wa.gov.au<;http://www.dmp.wa.gov.au/>;
>
>
>> DISCLAIMER: This email, including any attachments, is intended only
>> for
> use
>> by the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or personal
> information
>> and may also be the subject of legal privilege.
>> If you are not the intended recipient, you must not disclose or use
>> the information contained in it.
>> In this case, please let me know by return email, delete the message
>> permanently from your system and destroy any copies.
>
>> Before you take any action based upon advice and/or information
>> contained
> in
>> this email you should carefully consider the advice and information
>> and consider obtaining relevant independent advice.
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "Ron Stewart" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
> Date: 22 januari 2013 03:34:04 CET
> To: "'WebAIM Discussion List'" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> I would also look at the Phoenix from Enabling Technologies and
> MathTrax which is a free product. It really depends on what you are
> trying to accomplish, there is no silver bullet here. ViewPlus is
> having some organizational problems that at this point are causing me
> to recommend not going with their solutions. They are good, and I had
> a bit to do with some of their development so this is somewhat hard to say.
>
> Ron Stewart
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Robert
> Jaquiss
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 5:07 PM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
> Hello:
>
> The audio Graphing Calculator (AGC) from ViewPlus Technologies is
> only useful for displaying graphs generated by equations or for
> displaying data points.
>
> Regards,
> Robert
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jake Joehl
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 9:10 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
> What about the Audio Graphing Calculator from Viewplus Technologies?
> I've never used it but I've heard it demonstrated. Would this be
> another alternative?
> Jake
> Original message:
>> Hello:
>
>> Providing map data accessibly is a big subject. The closest
>> solution there is for this problem comes from ViewPlus Technologies.
>> Their website
>> is: www.viewplus.com A Tiger embosser is used to emboss a paper copy
>> of
> the
>> map. A few braille labels can be placed on a braille map. It is
>> possible with lots of work to use a touch tablet so users can touch a
>> place on a
> map
>> and hear what they have touched. It is possible for a user to zoom in
>> a
> map
>> by specifying a region, and then have the Tiger print out that region
>> in a full page version. This process can iterate several times.
>
>> Another possible solution is available from Touch Graphics. Their
>> web site is www.touchgraphics.com. The TouchGraphics system uses
>> vacuum formed plastic maps and either a touch tablet or pen to
>> provide the user information. The Touch Graphics approach is only
>> useful if many copies of the same image will be needed. You may
>> contact me off list for more information.
>
>> Regards,
>
>> Robert
>
>> Robert Jaquiss
>> Email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of COLLIER,
>> Jason
>> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 7:08 PM
>> To: ' = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = '
>> Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
>> Hi,
>
>> Where I work we have lots of geographical maps that contain a lot of data.
>> Does anyone know about best practices for providing an alternative
>> format for maps?
>
>> Any information would be greatly appreciated.
>
>> Jason Collier
>> Website Project Officer. Communications and Marketing Department of
>> Mines and Petroleum
>> 100 Plain Street, East Perth, WA, 6004
>> Postal: 100 Plain Street, East Perth, WA, 6004 Tel +61 8 9222 3070
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> www.dmp.wa.gov.au<;http://www.dmp.wa.gov.au/>;
>
>
>> DISCLAIMER: This email, including any attachments, is intended only
>> for
> use
>> by the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or personal
> information
>> and may also be the subject of legal privilege.
>> If you are not the intended recipient, you must not disclose or use
>> the information contained in it.
>> In this case, please let me know by return email, delete the message
>> permanently from your system and destroy any copies.
>
>> Before you take any action based upon advice and/or information
>> contained
> in
>> this email you should carefully consider the advice and information
>> and consider obtaining relevant independent advice.
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "Birkir R. Gunnarsson" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] How best to notify screen readers of updated section
> of page (aria live regions?)
> Date: 22 januari 2013 12:09:19 CET
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> Hey gang
>
> I'm practicing my ARIA, but also continuing my website testing and so on.
> I have come across one situation, whose solution is not immediately
> obvious to me.
> On the page:
> http://www.islandsbanki.is
> (sorry, it is all in Icelandic, I know) there is an h2 headings that
> says "fréttir", which means (news.
> Underneath that heading is a list of two links:
> Frettir
> Greinar
> (greinar = articles).
> Below that is an area of a website with 3 to 4 stories )visually it is
> probably a payne).
> When you activate "fréttir" you get news stories, but when you
> activate "greinar" the content of that panel changes to a different
> set of stories (articles/analytics).
> I am still trying to decide what would be the best way to notify
> screen readers of either the currently active content (is it fréttir
> or greinar), obviously putting a heading on the section with the
> stories would be one way to go.
> Also how to notify screen readers when "content updated to greinar"
> or
> "content updated to Frettir".
> I would imagine ARIA live regions would be the ideal way to do this,
> but still can't find an example that closely enough matches this
> situation.
> I am increasingly seeing this type of displaying content, and I find
> it quite convenient as a screen reader user, as long as I follow the
> internal page updates easily.
> So any ideas, suggestions or pointers to a very similar example welcome.
> Cheers
> -B
>
>
>
>
> From: Gijs Veyfeyken < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] PDF language not recognized by screenreaders
> Date: 22 januari 2013 12:58:21 CET
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> Hi,
>
> By following Adobe's guidelines for creating accessible PDF's with InDesign (CS6), I get a perfectly tagged and structured PDF with minimal effort.
> There is only one thing I cannot fix. Getting screenreaders (I tested with Jaws & NVDA) to read the PDF in the specified language (Dutch).
>
> In Acrobat Pro X, I manually set the language to "Dutch" in the document properties.
> Screenshot: http://images.anysurfer.be/2013-01-22_09-54-38.png
>
> In the tags tree in Acrobat, I've deleted the language property "en-GB" on the root tag <document> which is assigned by InDesign automatically.
> Screenshot: http://images.anysurfer.be/2013-01-22_09-53-51.png
>
> Still, NVDA reads the PDF in English. Jaws starts the PDF by saying "American English", then reads it in Dutch.
> Does that mean there are other hidden language attributes automatically set to English that I need to delete?
> Am I missing something or is this a screenreader problem?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Gijs Veyfeyken
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] How best to notify screen readers of updated
> section of page (aria live regions?)
> Date: 22 januari 2013 13:13:51 CET
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> This content is in a tabbed interface. WAI-ARIA has 'tab' and 'tabpanel' roles precisely for this sort of content. I have not tested this with a screen reader so I don't know how useful these roles are in practice.
>
> Steve Green
> > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] on behalf of Birkir R.
> Gunnarsson [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: 22 January 2013 11:09
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: [WebAIM] How best to notify screen readers of updated section
> of page (aria live regions?)
>
> Hey gang
>
> I'm practicing my ARIA, but also continuing my website testing and so on.
> I have come across one situation, whose solution is not immediately
> obvious to me.
> On the page:
> http://www.islandsbanki.is
> (sorry, it is all in Icelandic, I know) there is an h2 headings that
> says "fréttir", which means (news.
> Underneath that heading is a list of two links:
> Frettir
> Greinar
> (greinar = articles).
> Below that is an area of a website with 3 to 4 stories )visually it is
> probably a payne).
> When you activate "fréttir" you get news stories, but when you
> activate "greinar" the content of that panel changes to a different
> set of stories (articles/analytics).
> I am still trying to decide what would be the best way to notify
> screen readers of either the currently active content (is it fréttir
> or greinar), obviously putting a heading on the section with the
> stories would be one way to go.
> Also how to notify screen readers when "content updated to greinar"
> or
> "content updated to Frettir".
> I would imagine ARIA live regions would be the ideal way to do this,
> but still can't find an example that closely enough matches this
> situation.
> I am increasingly seeing this type of displaying content, and I find
> it quite convenient as a screen reader user, as long as I follow the
> internal page updates easily.
> So any ideas, suggestions or pointers to a very similar example welcome.
> Cheers
> -B
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
>
> From: Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] How best to notify screen readers of updated
> section of page (aria live regions?)
> Date: 22 januari 2013 13:20:35 CET
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> Here is the relevant section of the ARIA specification.
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/CR-wai-aria-20110118/roles#tabpanel
>
> > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] on behalf of Steve Green
> [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: 22 January 2013 12:13
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] How best to notify screen readers of updated
> section of page (aria live regions?)
>
> This content is in a tabbed interface. WAI-ARIA has 'tab' and 'tabpanel' roles precisely for this sort of content. I have not tested this with a screen reader so I don't know how useful these roles are in practice.
>
> Steve Green
> > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] on behalf of Birkir R.
> Gunnarsson [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: 22 January 2013 11:09
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: [WebAIM] How best to notify screen readers of updated section
> of page (aria live regions?)
>
> Hey gang
>
> I'm practicing my ARIA, but also continuing my website testing and so on.
> I have come across one situation, whose solution is not immediately
> obvious to me.
> On the page:
> http://www.islandsbanki.is
> (sorry, it is all in Icelandic, I know) there is an h2 headings that
> says "fréttir", which means (news.
> Underneath that heading is a list of two links:
> Frettir
> Greinar
> (greinar = articles).
> Below that is an area of a website with 3 to 4 stories )visually it is
> probably a payne).
> When you activate "fréttir" you get news stories, but when you
> activate "greinar" the content of that panel changes to a different
> set of stories (articles/analytics).
> I am still trying to decide what would be the best way to notify
> screen readers of either the currently active content (is it fréttir
> or greinar), obviously putting a heading on the section with the
> stories would be one way to go.
> Also how to notify screen readers when "content updated to greinar"
> or
> "content updated to Frettir".
> I would imagine ARIA live regions would be the ideal way to do this,
> but still can't find an example that closely enough matches this
> situation.
> I am increasingly seeing this type of displaying content, and I find
> it quite convenient as a screen reader user, as long as I follow the
> internal page updates easily.
> So any ideas, suggestions or pointers to a very similar example welcome.
> Cheers
> -B
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
>
> From: Duff Johnson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF language not recognized by screenreaders
> Date: 22 januari 2013 15:19:17 CET
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> Gijs,
>
> If the content itself (as opposed to the tags) has a language attribute your AT may be reading it.
>
> To discover if such attributes are present, go to the "Content" tab in Acrobat Professional. Within a content container, select a text run. Get that object's properties and you'll see whether or not a language was set.
>
> This screen-shot shows the relevant dialog in Acrobat.
>
> http://duff-johnson.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/content-language.pn
> g
>
> If you find the content's (as opposed to the tag's) language attribute has been set to English then this is your problem as it will override the tags (with some software). Content attributes should be manageable in InDesign.
>
> I'd love to know what you find...
>
> Duff Johnson
>
> ISO 32000 Intl. Project Co-Leader, US Chairman ISO 14289 US Chairman
> PDF Association Vice-Chairman
>
> +1 617 283 4226
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> http://duff-johnson.com
>
>
>
>
> From: "Stanzel, Susan - FSA, Kansas City, MO"
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
> Date: 22 januari 2013 18:01:55 CET
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Cc: "Meacham, Steve - FSA, Kansas City, MO"
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> Do any of you know accessibility aids or workarounds for dealing with GIS (Geospatial Information Systems)?
>
> Susie Stanzel
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Robert
> Jaquiss
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 5:07 PM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
> Hello:
>
> The audio Graphing Calculator (AGC) from ViewPlus Technologies is only useful for displaying graphs generated by equations or for displaying data points.
>
> Regards,
> Robert
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jake Joehl
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 9:10 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
> What about the Audio Graphing Calculator from Viewplus Technologies?
> I've never used it but I've heard it demonstrated. Would this be another alternative?
> Jake
> Original message:
>> Hello:
>
>> Providing map data accessibly is a big subject. The closest
>> solution there is for this problem comes from ViewPlus Technologies.
>> Their website
>> is: www.viewplus.com A Tiger embosser is used to emboss a paper copy
>> of
> the
>> map. A few braille labels can be placed on a braille map. It is
>> possible with lots of work to use a touch tablet so users can touch a
>> place on a
> map
>> and hear what they have touched. It is possible for a user to zoom in
>> a
> map
>> by specifying a region, and then have the Tiger print out that region
>> in a full page version. This process can iterate several times.
>
>> Another possible solution is available from Touch Graphics. Their
>> web site is www.touchgraphics.com. The TouchGraphics system uses
>> vacuum formed plastic maps and either a touch tablet or pen to
>> provide the user information. The Touch Graphics approach is only
>> useful if many copies of the same image will be needed. You may
>> contact me off list for more information.
>
>> Regards,
>
>> Robert
>
>> Robert Jaquiss
>> Email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of COLLIER,
>> Jason
>> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 7:08 PM
>> To: ' = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = '
>> Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
>> Hi,
>
>> Where I work we have lots of geographical maps that contain a lot of data.
>> Does anyone know about best practices for providing an alternative
>> format for maps?
>
>> Any information would be greatly appreciated.
>
>> Jason Collier
>> Website Project Officer. Communications and Marketing Department of
>> Mines and Petroleum
>> 100 Plain Street, East Perth, WA, 6004
>> Postal: 100 Plain Street, East Perth, WA, 6004 Tel +61 8 9222 3070
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> www.dmp.wa.gov.au<;http://www.dmp.wa.gov.au/>;
>
>
>> DISCLAIMER: This email, including any attachments, is intended only
>> for
> use
>> by the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or personal
> information
>> and may also be the subject of legal privilege.
>> If you are not the intended recipient, you must not disclose or use
>> the information contained in it.
>> In this case, please let me know by return email, delete the message
>> permanently from your system and destroy any copies.
>
>> Before you take any action based upon advice and/or information
>> contained
> in
>> this email you should carefully consider the advice and information
>> and consider obtaining relevant independent advice.
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
>
>
> This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete the email immediately.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "Stanzel, Susan - FSA, Kansas City, MO"
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] GIS
> Date: 22 januari 2013 18:36:41 CET
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> Do any of you know work arounds for geospatial Information Systems?
>
> Susie Stanzel
>
>
>
>
> This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete the email immediately.
>
>
>
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

This e-mail originates from the City of Ottawa e-mail system. Any
distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it
contains by other than the intended recipient(s) is unauthorized.
If you are not the intended recipient, please notify me at the
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Le présent courriel a été expédié par le système de courriels de
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From: Duff Johnson
Date: Wed, Jan 23 2013 8:54AM
Subject: Re: PDF language not recognized by screenreaders
← Previous message | Next message →

> Thank you Duff. You've pointed me in the right direction.

You are welcome.

> InDesign automatically assigns a language to a paragraph style.
> Since my version of InDesign is English, it's set to English UK.

There we have it...

> In conclusion:
> According to Adobe, setting the language of the PDF on the document level in Acrobat, should do the trick.
> This is false.

Well… not exactly.

It's true in cases where (a) the content and (b) the tags themselves do NOT have language attributes set, which is most of the time (except where InDesign is concerned, of course).

> The language properties on content level overrides the language on document level.

Yes, and it's correct that they should do so.

That said, software that allows the user to set the language property for the whole document should be smarter than to allow such confusion to (understandably) propagate. For example, it would be helpful if when setting the global language the user was advised of content-level language settings and was provided the option to replace such settings.

> As always, making sure the source document is correct (in this case the language of Paragraph Styles in InDesign) avoids problems later on.

As always… ;-)

Duff Johnson

ISO 32000 Intl. Project Co-Leader, US Chairman
ISO 14289 US Chairman
PDF Association Vice-Chairman

+1 617 283 4226
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://duff-johnson.com

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Thu, Jan 24 2013 9:15AM
Subject: Re: PDF language not recognized by screenreaders
← Previous message | Next message →

Gijs,

Thanks for looking into this - as a result of what you've pointed out we'll get the best practices documents updated to reflect the information more accurately.

If you haven't found this already, here's some additional information for you that may help.

InDesign doesn't have an explicit "document language" setting, but it is intuiting one from the default paragraph style language setting. To change the default paragraph style language setting, open InDesign but do not open any individual files. Go to the paragraph styles panel and edit the basic paragraph style's language setting. By doing this, the next time you create a document and export it to PDF, the document language will be what you set it to.

You still may have paragraphs or words within the documents that have a different language, but once you've set the default to Dutch (or whatever) every new paragraph will have that as the default, and you can change it if you need a paragraph style which is for French text within a primarily Dutch document.

It is worth noting that the PDF that is created will have the default language set in the tags for the first <document> tag, but the only languages that show up in the tags after that are for languages which are different from the default. For example, I set my default to Dutch and have three paragraphs and the 2nd paragraph has a different paragraph style and it is set to French. The PDF will have Dutch set on the <document> tag and French set on the second paragraph, but no language on any other tags as the Dutch setting on the parent tag for everything else cascades down so that everything else is in Dutch.

What isn't set is the document language setting as shown in the document properties. This is simple to do, but I completely agree that we need to simplify this process. I'll share this information with the InDesign team and work to get this addressed.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
AWK

Andrew Kirkpatrick
Group Product Manager, Accessibility
Adobe Systems

= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://twitter.com/awkawk
http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Gijs Veyfeyken
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 6:03 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF language not recognized by screenreaders

Thank you Duff. You've pointed me in the right direction.

InDesign automatically assigns a language to a paragraph style.
Since my version of InDesign is English, it's set to English UK.

Screenshot dialog Paragraph Style Options > tab Advanced Character Formats http://images.anysurfer.be/2013-01-23_09-10-07.png

If I open a new document and set the language of the default "basic paragraph" to Dutch, all other paragraph styles created from that point on, will adopt this setting because they are based on the "basic paragraph".

The items in the content pane of Acrobat now have the correct language property.
Screenshot: http://images.anysurfer.be/Screen_Shot_2013-01-23_at_11.44.20.png

In conclusion:
According to Adobe, setting the language of the PDF on the document level in Acrobat, should do the trick.
This is false. The language properties on content level overrides the language on document level.
As always, making sure the source document is correct (in this case the language of Paragraph Styles in InDesign) avoids problems later on.

Kind regards,

Gijs

---
Gijs Veyfeyken
AnySurfer - towards an accessible internet A project of Blindenzorg Licht en Liefde vzw Kunstlaan 24 box 21
1000 Brussels
Belgium
www.anysurfer.be


On 22-jan.-2013, at 20:00, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = wrote:

> Send WebAIM-Forum mailing list submissions to
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://list.webaim.org/mailman/listinfo/webaim-forum
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> You can reach the person managing the list at
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of WebAIM-Forum digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Accessibility and geographical maps (Robert Jaquiss)
> 2. Re: Accessibility and geographical maps (Ron Stewart)
> 3. How best to notify screen readers of updated section of page
> (aria live regions?) (Birkir R. Gunnarsson)
> 4. PDF language not recognized by screenreaders (Gijs Veyfeyken)
> 5. Re: How best to notify screen readers of updated section of
> page (aria live regions?) (Steve Green)
> 6. Re: How best to notify screen readers of updated section of
> page (aria live regions?) (Steve Green)
> 7. Re: PDF language not recognized by screenreaders (Duff Johnson)
> 8. Re: Accessibility and geographical maps
> (Stanzel, Susan - FSA, Kansas City, MO)
> 9. GIS (Stanzel, Susan - FSA, Kansas City, MO)
>
> From: "Robert Jaquiss" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
> Date: 22 januari 2013 00:07:00 CET
> To: "'WebAIM Discussion List'" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> Hello:
>
> The audio Graphing Calculator (AGC) from ViewPlus Technologies is
> only useful for displaying graphs generated by equations or for
> displaying data points.
>
> Regards,
> Robert
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jake Joehl
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 9:10 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
> What about the Audio Graphing Calculator from Viewplus Technologies?
> I've never used it but I've heard it demonstrated. Would this be
> another alternative?
> Jake
> Original message:
>> Hello:
>
>> Providing map data accessibly is a big subject. The closest
>> solution there is for this problem comes from ViewPlus Technologies.
>> Their website
>> is: www.viewplus.com A Tiger embosser is used to emboss a paper copy
>> of
> the
>> map. A few braille labels can be placed on a braille map. It is
>> possible with lots of work to use a touch tablet so users can touch a
>> place on a
> map
>> and hear what they have touched. It is possible for a user to zoom in
>> a
> map
>> by specifying a region, and then have the Tiger print out that region
>> in a full page version. This process can iterate several times.
>
>> Another possible solution is available from Touch Graphics. Their
>> web site is www.touchgraphics.com. The TouchGraphics system uses
>> vacuum formed plastic maps and either a touch tablet or pen to
>> provide the user information. The Touch Graphics approach is only
>> useful if many copies of the same image will be needed. You may
>> contact me off list for more information.
>
>> Regards,
>
>> Robert
>
>> Robert Jaquiss
>> Email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of COLLIER,
>> Jason
>> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 7:08 PM
>> To: ' = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = '
>> Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
>> Hi,
>
>> Where I work we have lots of geographical maps that contain a lot of data.
>> Does anyone know about best practices for providing an alternative
>> format for maps?
>
>> Any information would be greatly appreciated.
>
>> Jason Collier
>> Website Project Officer. Communications and Marketing Department of
>> Mines and Petroleum
>> 100 Plain Street, East Perth, WA, 6004
>> Postal: 100 Plain Street, East Perth, WA, 6004 Tel +61 8 9222 3070
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> www.dmp.wa.gov.au<;http://www.dmp.wa.gov.au/>;
>
>
>> DISCLAIMER: This email, including any attachments, is intended only
>> for
> use
>> by the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or personal
> information
>> and may also be the subject of legal privilege.
>> If you are not the intended recipient, you must not disclose or use
>> the information contained in it.
>> In this case, please let me know by return email, delete the message
>> permanently from your system and destroy any copies.
>
>> Before you take any action based upon advice and/or information
>> contained
> in
>> this email you should carefully consider the advice and information
>> and consider obtaining relevant independent advice.
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "Ron Stewart" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
> Date: 22 januari 2013 03:34:04 CET
> To: "'WebAIM Discussion List'" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> I would also look at the Phoenix from Enabling Technologies and
> MathTrax which is a free product. It really depends on what you are
> trying to accomplish, there is no silver bullet here. ViewPlus is
> having some organizational problems that at this point are causing me
> to recommend not going with their solutions. They are good, and I had
> a bit to do with some of their development so this is somewhat hard to say.
>
> Ron Stewart
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Robert
> Jaquiss
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 5:07 PM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
> Hello:
>
> The audio Graphing Calculator (AGC) from ViewPlus Technologies is
> only useful for displaying graphs generated by equations or for
> displaying data points.
>
> Regards,
> Robert
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jake Joehl
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 9:10 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
> What about the Audio Graphing Calculator from Viewplus Technologies?
> I've never used it but I've heard it demonstrated. Would this be
> another alternative?
> Jake
> Original message:
>> Hello:
>
>> Providing map data accessibly is a big subject. The closest
>> solution there is for this problem comes from ViewPlus Technologies.
>> Their website
>> is: www.viewplus.com A Tiger embosser is used to emboss a paper copy
>> of
> the
>> map. A few braille labels can be placed on a braille map. It is
>> possible with lots of work to use a touch tablet so users can touch a
>> place on a
> map
>> and hear what they have touched. It is possible for a user to zoom in
>> a
> map
>> by specifying a region, and then have the Tiger print out that region
>> in a full page version. This process can iterate several times.
>
>> Another possible solution is available from Touch Graphics. Their
>> web site is www.touchgraphics.com. The TouchGraphics system uses
>> vacuum formed plastic maps and either a touch tablet or pen to
>> provide the user information. The Touch Graphics approach is only
>> useful if many copies of the same image will be needed. You may
>> contact me off list for more information.
>
>> Regards,
>
>> Robert
>
>> Robert Jaquiss
>> Email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of COLLIER,
>> Jason
>> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 7:08 PM
>> To: ' = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = '
>> Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
>> Hi,
>
>> Where I work we have lots of geographical maps that contain a lot of data.
>> Does anyone know about best practices for providing an alternative
>> format for maps?
>
>> Any information would be greatly appreciated.
>
>> Jason Collier
>> Website Project Officer. Communications and Marketing Department of
>> Mines and Petroleum
>> 100 Plain Street, East Perth, WA, 6004
>> Postal: 100 Plain Street, East Perth, WA, 6004 Tel +61 8 9222 3070
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> www.dmp.wa.gov.au<;http://www.dmp.wa.gov.au/>;
>
>
>> DISCLAIMER: This email, including any attachments, is intended only
>> for
> use
>> by the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or personal
> information
>> and may also be the subject of legal privilege.
>> If you are not the intended recipient, you must not disclose or use
>> the information contained in it.
>> In this case, please let me know by return email, delete the message
>> permanently from your system and destroy any copies.
>
>> Before you take any action based upon advice and/or information
>> contained
> in
>> this email you should carefully consider the advice and information
>> and consider obtaining relevant independent advice.
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "Birkir R. Gunnarsson" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] How best to notify screen readers of updated section
> of page (aria live regions?)
> Date: 22 januari 2013 12:09:19 CET
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> Hey gang
>
> I'm practicing my ARIA, but also continuing my website testing and so on.
> I have come across one situation, whose solution is not immediately
> obvious to me.
> On the page:
> http://www.islandsbanki.is
> (sorry, it is all in Icelandic, I know) there is an h2 headings that
> says "fréttir", which means (news.
> Underneath that heading is a list of two links:
> Frettir
> Greinar
> (greinar = articles).
> Below that is an area of a website with 3 to 4 stories )visually it is
> probably a payne).
> When you activate "fréttir" you get news stories, but when you
> activate "greinar" the content of that panel changes to a different
> set of stories (articles/analytics).
> I am still trying to decide what would be the best way to notify
> screen readers of either the currently active content (is it fréttir
> or greinar), obviously putting a heading on the section with the
> stories would be one way to go.
> Also how to notify screen readers when "content updated to greinar"
> or
> "content updated to Frettir".
> I would imagine ARIA live regions would be the ideal way to do this,
> but still can't find an example that closely enough matches this
> situation.
> I am increasingly seeing this type of displaying content, and I find
> it quite convenient as a screen reader user, as long as I follow the
> internal page updates easily.
> So any ideas, suggestions or pointers to a very similar example welcome.
> Cheers
> -B
>
>
>
>
> From: Gijs Veyfeyken < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] PDF language not recognized by screenreaders
> Date: 22 januari 2013 12:58:21 CET
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> Hi,
>
> By following Adobe's guidelines for creating accessible PDF's with InDesign (CS6), I get a perfectly tagged and structured PDF with minimal effort.
> There is only one thing I cannot fix. Getting screenreaders (I tested with Jaws & NVDA) to read the PDF in the specified language (Dutch).
>
> In Acrobat Pro X, I manually set the language to "Dutch" in the document properties.
> Screenshot: http://images.anysurfer.be/2013-01-22_09-54-38.png
>
> In the tags tree in Acrobat, I've deleted the language property "en-GB" on the root tag <document> which is assigned by InDesign automatically.
> Screenshot: http://images.anysurfer.be/2013-01-22_09-53-51.png
>
> Still, NVDA reads the PDF in English. Jaws starts the PDF by saying "American English", then reads it in Dutch.
> Does that mean there are other hidden language attributes automatically set to English that I need to delete?
> Am I missing something or is this a screenreader problem?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Gijs Veyfeyken
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] How best to notify screen readers of updated
> section of page (aria live regions?)
> Date: 22 januari 2013 13:13:51 CET
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> This content is in a tabbed interface. WAI-ARIA has 'tab' and 'tabpanel' roles precisely for this sort of content. I have not tested this with a screen reader so I don't know how useful these roles are in practice.
>
> Steve Green
> > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] on behalf of Birkir R.
> Gunnarsson [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: 22 January 2013 11:09
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: [WebAIM] How best to notify screen readers of updated section
> of page (aria live regions?)
>
> Hey gang
>
> I'm practicing my ARIA, but also continuing my website testing and so on.
> I have come across one situation, whose solution is not immediately
> obvious to me.
> On the page:
> http://www.islandsbanki.is
> (sorry, it is all in Icelandic, I know) there is an h2 headings that
> says "fréttir", which means (news.
> Underneath that heading is a list of two links:
> Frettir
> Greinar
> (greinar = articles).
> Below that is an area of a website with 3 to 4 stories )visually it is
> probably a payne).
> When you activate "fréttir" you get news stories, but when you
> activate "greinar" the content of that panel changes to a different
> set of stories (articles/analytics).
> I am still trying to decide what would be the best way to notify
> screen readers of either the currently active content (is it fréttir
> or greinar), obviously putting a heading on the section with the
> stories would be one way to go.
> Also how to notify screen readers when "content updated to greinar"
> or
> "content updated to Frettir".
> I would imagine ARIA live regions would be the ideal way to do this,
> but still can't find an example that closely enough matches this
> situation.
> I am increasingly seeing this type of displaying content, and I find
> it quite convenient as a screen reader user, as long as I follow the
> internal page updates easily.
> So any ideas, suggestions or pointers to a very similar example welcome.
> Cheers
> -B
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
>
> From: Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] How best to notify screen readers of updated
> section of page (aria live regions?)
> Date: 22 januari 2013 13:20:35 CET
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> Here is the relevant section of the ARIA specification.
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/CR-wai-aria-20110118/roles#tabpanel
>
> > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] on behalf of Steve Green
> [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: 22 January 2013 12:13
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] How best to notify screen readers of updated
> section of page (aria live regions?)
>
> This content is in a tabbed interface. WAI-ARIA has 'tab' and 'tabpanel' roles precisely for this sort of content. I have not tested this with a screen reader so I don't know how useful these roles are in practice.
>
> Steve Green
> > From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] on behalf of Birkir R.
> Gunnarsson [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: 22 January 2013 11:09
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: [WebAIM] How best to notify screen readers of updated section
> of page (aria live regions?)
>
> Hey gang
>
> I'm practicing my ARIA, but also continuing my website testing and so on.
> I have come across one situation, whose solution is not immediately
> obvious to me.
> On the page:
> http://www.islandsbanki.is
> (sorry, it is all in Icelandic, I know) there is an h2 headings that
> says "fréttir", which means (news.
> Underneath that heading is a list of two links:
> Frettir
> Greinar
> (greinar = articles).
> Below that is an area of a website with 3 to 4 stories )visually it is
> probably a payne).
> When you activate "fréttir" you get news stories, but when you
> activate "greinar" the content of that panel changes to a different
> set of stories (articles/analytics).
> I am still trying to decide what would be the best way to notify
> screen readers of either the currently active content (is it fréttir
> or greinar), obviously putting a heading on the section with the
> stories would be one way to go.
> Also how to notify screen readers when "content updated to greinar"
> or
> "content updated to Frettir".
> I would imagine ARIA live regions would be the ideal way to do this,
> but still can't find an example that closely enough matches this
> situation.
> I am increasingly seeing this type of displaying content, and I find
> it quite convenient as a screen reader user, as long as I follow the
> internal page updates easily.
> So any ideas, suggestions or pointers to a very similar example welcome.
> Cheers
> -B
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
>
> From: Duff Johnson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF language not recognized by screenreaders
> Date: 22 januari 2013 15:19:17 CET
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> Gijs,
>
> If the content itself (as opposed to the tags) has a language attribute your AT may be reading it.
>
> To discover if such attributes are present, go to the "Content" tab in Acrobat Professional. Within a content container, select a text run. Get that object's properties and you'll see whether or not a language was set.
>
> This screen-shot shows the relevant dialog in Acrobat.
>
> http://duff-johnson.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/content-language.pn
> g
>
> If you find the content's (as opposed to the tag's) language attribute has been set to English then this is your problem as it will override the tags (with some software). Content attributes should be manageable in InDesign.
>
> I'd love to know what you find...
>
> Duff Johnson
>
> ISO 32000 Intl. Project Co-Leader, US Chairman ISO 14289 US Chairman
> PDF Association Vice-Chairman
>
> +1 617 283 4226
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> http://duff-johnson.com
>
>
>
>
> From: "Stanzel, Susan - FSA, Kansas City, MO"
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
> Date: 22 januari 2013 18:01:55 CET
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Cc: "Meacham, Steve - FSA, Kansas City, MO"
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> Do any of you know accessibility aids or workarounds for dealing with GIS (Geospatial Information Systems)?
>
> Susie Stanzel
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Robert
> Jaquiss
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 5:07 PM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
> Hello:
>
> The audio Graphing Calculator (AGC) from ViewPlus Technologies is only useful for displaying graphs generated by equations or for displaying data points.
>
> Regards,
> Robert
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jake Joehl
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 9:10 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
> What about the Audio Graphing Calculator from Viewplus Technologies?
> I've never used it but I've heard it demonstrated. Would this be another alternative?
> Jake
> Original message:
>> Hello:
>
>> Providing map data accessibly is a big subject. The closest
>> solution there is for this problem comes from ViewPlus Technologies.
>> Their website
>> is: www.viewplus.com A Tiger embosser is used to emboss a paper copy
>> of
> the
>> map. A few braille labels can be placed on a braille map. It is
>> possible with lots of work to use a touch tablet so users can touch a
>> place on a
> map
>> and hear what they have touched. It is possible for a user to zoom in
>> a
> map
>> by specifying a region, and then have the Tiger print out that region
>> in a full page version. This process can iterate several times.
>
>> Another possible solution is available from Touch Graphics. Their
>> web site is www.touchgraphics.com. The TouchGraphics system uses
>> vacuum formed plastic maps and either a touch tablet or pen to
>> provide the user information. The Touch Graphics approach is only
>> useful if many copies of the same image will be needed. You may
>> contact me off list for more information.
>
>> Regards,
>
>> Robert
>
>> Robert Jaquiss
>> Email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of COLLIER,
>> Jason
>> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 7:08 PM
>> To: ' = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = '
>> Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility and geographical maps
>
>> Hi,
>
>> Where I work we have lots of geographical maps that contain a lot of data.
>> Does anyone know about best practices for providing an alternative
>> format for maps?
>
>> Any information would be greatly appreciated.
>
>> Jason Collier
>> Website Project Officer. Communications and Marketing Department of
>> Mines and Petroleum
>> 100 Plain Street, East Perth, WA, 6004
>> Postal: 100 Plain Street, East Perth, WA, 6004 Tel +61 8 9222 3070
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> www.dmp.wa.gov.au<;http://www.dmp.wa.gov.au/>;
>
>
>> DISCLAIMER: This email, including any attachments, is intended only
>> for
> use
>> by the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or personal
> information
>> and may also be the subject of legal privilege.
>> If you are not the intended recipient, you must not disclose or use
>> the information contained in it.
>> In this case, please let me know by return email, delete the message
>> permanently from your system and destroy any copies.
>
>> Before you take any action based upon advice and/or information
>> contained
> in
>> this email you should carefully consider the advice and information
>> and consider obtaining relevant independent advice.
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
>
>
> This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete the email immediately.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "Stanzel, Susan - FSA, Kansas City, MO"
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] GIS
> Date: 22 januari 2013 18:36:41 CET
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> Do any of you know work arounds for geospatial Information Systems?
>
> Susie Stanzel
>
>
>
>
> This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete the email immediately.
>
>
>
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Thu, Jan 24 2013 10:31AM
Subject: Re: PDF language not recognized by screenreaders
← Previous message | Next message →

Andrew wrote: "InDesign doesn't have an explicit "document language"
setting, but it is intuiting one from the default paragraph style language
setting."

Thanks for this critical info, Andrew.
Want to clarify what you said: when you say "default paragraph style," do
you mean InDesign's built-in paragraph style called [Basic Paragraph] that
appears in square brackets in the styles panel?

"What isn't set is the document language setting as shown in the document
properties. ... I'll share this information with the InDesign team and
work to get this addressed."
This would be wonderful!
Most graphic designers do not use [Basic Paragraph] at all to format their
InDesign layouts. It was panned by the design community when it came out a
few versions back, mainly due to ignorance and a lack of foresight, and so
most designers just ignore it and instead use other styles to format their
body text. Therefore, assuming that the settings of [Basic Paragraph] will
control things might not work for many graphic designers.

Question: if a paragraph has its language set to, say, French, will child
styles based on it also inherit - and retain in the PDF - the French
language setting? Since [Basic Paragraph] sets the language for the entire
document, how does the language setting affect child styles of other styles?

Example of some paragraph styles and language settings:
[Basic Paragraph] = Dutch for the entire document, by default in the
language setting.

Sidebar Text = French for the paragraph language setting.

Sidebar Bullets (based on Sidebar Text) = ? Does it inherit the
French language setting from the parent style, Sidebar Text?

-Bevi Chagnon

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
www.PubCom.com - Trainers, Consultants, Designers, Developers.
Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
Accessibility.
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- It's our 32nd year! -

From: Duff Johnson
Date: Thu, Jan 24 2013 10:39AM
Subject: Re: PDF language not recognized by screenreaders
← Previous message | Next message →

> What isn't set is the document language setting as shown in the document properties. This is simple to do, but I completely agree that we need to simplify this process. I'll share this information with the InDesign team and work to get this addressed.

This will certainly help, but it's not quite to the point.

Gijs's point - as I understood it - was that setting the document language in Acrobat did not produce the desired result (i.e., AT using that language). This is, simply, because the document language setting in Acrobat acts on document-level metadata rather than on the content (or on the tags, for that matter).

Insofar as Acrobat is a "PDF editor" it would make sense to have the document-langauge management feature include the ability to (optionally) over-ride existing tag and content-level language settings.

Preferably, the user should not be forced to return to the source InDesign file to address this problem in a reasonable manner.

Duff.

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Thu, Jan 24 2013 2:27PM
Subject: Re: PDF language not recognized by screenreaders
← Previous message | Next message →

This will certainly help, but it's not quite to the point.

Gijs's point - as I understood it - was that setting the document language in Acrobat did not produce the desired result (i.e., AT using that language). This is, simply, because the document language setting in Acrobat acts on document-level metadata rather than on the content (or on the tags, for that matter).

[AWK] The result, while undesirable, is entirely consistent with the way that PDF and AT are supposed to behave though. InDesign is using a process to set the language on the top-level <document> tag, and everything underneath it uses that language unless it has a different language defined. So the child elements under the <document> tag may specify a different language, and any children of those will follow the language of their parent tag.

It works in the other direction also, and that is where the problem is - the parent of the <document> tag in the language hierarchy is the document catalog's /lang entry. When this is changed by setting the language in the document properties dialog in Acrobat the document's primary language is set to that language, but then the first tag (which contains all document content as child tags within it) redefines the language again.

My recommendation is that InDesign not use the <document> tags as the destination for the language (however determined for the document level in InDesign - I'll also be recommending a better way than currently employed) but to use the document catalog /lang entry.

Insofar as Acrobat is a "PDF editor" it would make sense to have the document-langauge management feature include the ability to (optionally) over-ride existing tag and content-level language settings.

Preferably, the user should not be forced to return to the source InDesign file to address this problem in a reasonable manner.

[AWK] Sure. I don't think that they are, even now. For example:
If I have a document with 100 paragraphs (or 1000, just picking a large number that I wouldn't want to manually and individually adjust) and I want this document to be in French but my InDesign thinks that the document is EN-US. I also have an English paragraph in my document. I make sure that the paragraph styles all reflect the correct language and export to PDF. I test and the language needs to be defined for the document, per the test in Acrobat, so I:
1) Add French as the language in the document properties dialog. This won't change how anything is read yet because the <document> tag has EN-US as the language.
2) I delete the language from the <document> tag. Now the entire document reads in French. This includes the English paragraph because InDesign was smart enough to not need to define the language for that paragraph as it thought that EN-US was the document language so it didn't need to be reassigned. All of the paragraphs which were set to French do have this indicated, which duplicates the document level setting in #1, but that's not a problem.

That seems like a process I'd like to avoid, but isn't unreasonable, as repair goes.

Are you thinking about a different use case that is more problematic?

AWK

From: Duff Johnson
Date: Thu, Jan 24 2013 3:18PM
Subject: Re: PDF language not recognized by screenreaders
← Previous message | No next message

On Jan 24, 2013, at 4:27 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick wrote:
>
> Gijs's point - as I understood it - was that setting the document language in Acrobat did not produce the desired result (i.e., AT using that language). This is, simply, because the document language setting in Acrobat acts on document-level metadata rather than on the content (or on the tags, for that matter).
>
> [AWK] The result, while undesirable, is entirely consistent with the way that PDF and AT are supposed to behave though.

That's true - it's simply that Acrobat's representing functionality that isn't being delivered. The user thought that Acrobat would actually enforce (change content attributes) a language change; not an unreasonable expectation or desire.

> My recommendation is that InDesign not use the <document> tags as the destination for the language (however determined for the document level in InDesign - I'll also be recommending a better way than currently employed) but to use the document catalog /lang entry.

Excellent; a nice economical approach that solves this particular problem.

> Insofar as Acrobat is a "PDF editor" it would make sense to have the document-langauge management feature include the ability to (optionally) over-ride existing tag and content-level language settings.
>
> Preferably, the user should not be forced to return to the source InDesign file to address this problem in a reasonable manner.
>
> [AWK] Sure. I don't think that they are, even now. For example:
> If I have a document with 100 paragraphs (or 1000, just picking a large number that I wouldn't want to manually and individually adjust) and I want this document to be in French but my InDesign thinks that the document is EN-US. I also have an English paragraph in my document. I make sure that the paragraph styles all reflect the correct language and export to PDF. I test and the language needs to be defined for the document, per the test in Acrobat, so I:
> 1) Add French as the language in the document properties dialog. This won't change how anything is read yet because the <document> tag has EN-US as the language.
> 2) I delete the language from the <document> tag. Now the entire document reads in French. This includes the English paragraph because InDesign was smart enough to not need to define the language for that paragraph as it thought that EN-US was the document language so it didn't need to be reassigned. All of the paragraphs which were set to French do have this indicated, which duplicates the document level setting in #1, but that's not a problem.
>
> That seems like a process I'd like to avoid, but isn't unreasonable, as repair goes.

I agree - it's not an unreasonable work around for that use case. To enhance it, Acrobat should (probably) notice that the user's selected a language that clashes with the lang set in the <Document> tag, and offer to fix the tag to match (or possibly, just go ahead and do it without asking).

> Are you thinking about a different use case that is more problematic?


I'm thinking generically of the situation in which users try to manage lang settings post-creation but run into collisions when lower nodes frustrate their intent (and the implied capability of the software).

One use case would be this: users can and will consciously or otherwise write words, sentences or paragraphs of text in languages other than the one for which their application is currently set. It's a pretty standard-issue mistake. When I "mark selected text" as German in MS Word, I don't see any visual indication. I could easily forget...

In such cases the PDF gets made with incorrect lang settings. Depending on the creating application, these may be found in the content, the tags, or both.

When it comes down to it, it's the intent of the Acrobat user editing the tags in the PDF that needs to be accommodated in Acrobat. We have to assume that they are trying to fix the file. That means, essentially, that lang changes made to tags in Acrobat should (optionally) warn of conflicts "below" and offer to harmonize them. The Acrobat user could then "clean the slate", with the next move being to come in and set the lang on this or that tag as per their judgement.

Greedy for fancy software as I am, I'd also want the ability to navigate the PDF based on lang settings in tags or content to preview the output file from that perspective, but that's wishful thinking, I'm sure!

Duff.