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From: G Hickling
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2014 4:23PM
Subject: Please assist a web developer...
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I would like some comments, please, from blind and low-sighted users of
screen readers on a point of usability. Lots of websites these days put
the navigation menu on the top line of the browser window, before the
site logo and the rest of the header. Other sites start off with adverts
from third parties in the same position.

It seems to me this sort of thing must be a nuisance to screen reader
users, by leaving a lot of stuff to wade through or skip over before the
user even knows what the site is about (I know the initial title and
description, which are announced first by the screen reader, are
supposed to say what site it is, but we don't always get that right
either!.

As a web developer I would like to know if practice of ours this causes
problems for blind and low sighted screen reader users, or are you ok
with it?


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From: Joy Relton
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2014 4:38PM
Subject: Re: Please assist a web developer...
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As a blind person who uses the web and also tests web sites I think that the
title of the page should be first. You can then either use a skip navigation
tab or have a Heading #2 as the "skip nv". For me, the structure of the page
is very important. I want to be able to move through the hierarchy of the
pae and understand what it is all about. This should be done with heading,
links paragraphs and the like. Otherwise, the web page is similar to reading
a lengthy document on narrow ticker tape which has been cut apart andthen
taped together. I have the same opinion about documents and software. Put
the important stuff in order of import in the structure. If you want fancy
colors and bolding and the like, fine, but make sure that you use a build-it
structure which indicates levels of import. THT.

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of G Hickling
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 6:23 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] Please assist a web developer...

I would like some comments, please, from blind and low-sighted users of
screen readers on a point of usability. Lots of websites these days put the
navigation menu on the top line of the browser window, before the site logo
and the rest of the header. Other sites start off with adverts from third
parties in the same position.

It seems to me this sort of thing must be a nuisance to screen reader users,
by leaving a lot of stuff to wade through or skip over before the user even
knows what the site is about (I know the initial title and description,
which are announced first by the screen reader, are supposed to say what
site it is, but we don't always get that right either!.

As a web developer I would like to know if practice of ours this causes
problems for blind and low sighted screen reader users, or are you ok with
it?


--
http://www.fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be

messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

From: Nusbaum, Christopher
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2014 4:39PM
Subject: Re: Please assist a web developer...
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I don't see much of a problem with it, as long as a "skip to main content" link is added or a heading place to get to the primary content on a page. I can then use a shortcut key to skip to heading under which I can find the content I'm looking for. Hope this helps.

Christopher A. (Chris) Nusbaum, Intern
Technology Services Department
Assistive Technology Program
Carroll County Public Schools

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 23, 2014, at 6:24 PM, "G Hickling" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> I would like some comments, please, from blind and low-sighted users of
> screen readers on a point of usability. Lots of websites these days put
> the navigation menu on the top line of the browser window, before the
> site logo and the rest of the header. Other sites start off with adverts
> from third parties in the same position.
>
> It seems to me this sort of thing must be a nuisance to screen reader
> users, by leaving a lot of stuff to wade through or skip over before the
> user even knows what the site is about (I know the initial title and
> description, which are announced first by the screen reader, are
> supposed to say what site it is, but we don't always get that right
> either!.
>
> As a web developer I would like to know if practice of ours this causes
> problems for blind and low sighted screen reader users, or are you ok
> with it?
>
>
> --
> http://www.fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be
>
> > >

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Wed, Jul 23 2014 4:41PM
Subject: Re: Please assist a web developer...
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It depends.
Remember that screen readers follow the content or code order whereas
you can make anything appear anywhere visually using CSS.
It is best practice when those things are similar, or at least both
have to be logical.
You can use a good heading structure or ARIA landmarks to give screen
reader users the chance to skip past the content they don´t want to
the content they do want.
regarding ads, make sure to put them inside a div with role="region"
and an aria-label (which is an invisible label mostly for the benefit
of screen reader users), something descriptive like "promotions" or
"advertizements" or "please note" (I mean it is ok to market to blind
users too).
Make sure your site navigation is marked with role="navigation", your
main content with role="main" and footer with role="contentinfo".
If the page contains one single point of interest (say if user clicked
on a link that takes him to a page with a main news story), make sure
to put an h1 at the beginning of that content (screen reader users
often navigate by headings).
The most difficult thing about advertizements in general is the
tendency of marketting to get fancy and deploy animation (carousels),
Flash and so on, which can often distract people, particularly screen
reader users or their software.
Make sure users can stop any animation and skip over such content.
Cheers


On 7/23/14, G Hickling < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> I would like some comments, please, from blind and low-sighted users of
> screen readers on a point of usability. Lots of websites these days put
> the navigation menu on the top line of the browser window, before the
> site logo and the rest of the header. Other sites start off with adverts
> from third parties in the same position.
>
> It seems to me this sort of thing must be a nuisance to screen reader
> users, by leaving a lot of stuff to wade through or skip over before the
> user even knows what the site is about (I know the initial title and
> description, which are announced first by the screen reader, are
> supposed to say what site it is, but we don't always get that right
> either!.
>
> As a web developer I would like to know if practice of ours this causes
> problems for blind and low sighted screen reader users, or are you ok
> with it?
>
>
> --
> http://www.fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be
>
> > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: Thomas McKeithan II
Date: Thu, Jul 24 2014 1:51AM
Subject: Re: Please assist a web developer...
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I concur with Joy's strategy and recommendation. A structured page/document wherein the user can easerly navigate between sections is essential.

Respectfully,
Thomas Lee McKeithan II
QSSI
http://www.qssinc.com
508 SME, SSQA Solutions Center
10480 Little Patuxent Pkwy , Suite 350
Columbia , MD 21044
(301 )977-7884 x1058 (Work)
(202) 276-6437 (Cell)
 

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-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Joy Relton
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 6:38 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Please assist a web developer...

As a blind person who uses the web and also tests web sites I think that the title of the page should be first. You can then either use a skip navigation tab or have a Heading #2 as the "skip nv". For me, the structure of the page is very important. I want to be able to move through the hierarchy of the pae and understand what it is all about. This should be done with heading, links paragraphs and the like. Otherwise, the web page is similar to reading a lengthy document on narrow ticker tape which has been cut apart andthen taped together. I have the same opinion about documents and software. Put the important stuff in order of import in the structure. If you want fancy colors and bolding and the like, fine, but make sure that you use a build-it structure which indicates levels of import. THT.

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of G Hickling
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 6:23 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] Please assist a web developer...

I would like some comments, please, from blind and low-sighted users of screen readers on a point of usability. Lots of websites these days put the navigation menu on the top line of the browser window, before the site logo and the rest of the header. Other sites start off with adverts from third parties in the same position.

It seems to me this sort of thing must be a nuisance to screen reader users, by leaving a lot of stuff to wade through or skip over before the user even knows what the site is about (I know the initial title and description, which are announced first by the screen reader, are supposed to say what site it is, but we don't always get that right either!.

As a web developer I would like to know if practice of ours this causes problems for blind and low sighted screen reader users, or are you ok with it?


--
http://www.fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be