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Thread: accessible pair programming/screen & keyboard sharing

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Number of posts in this thread: 9 (In chronological order)

From: deborah.kaplan@suberic.net
Date: Thu, Sep 17 2015 1:01PM
Subject: accessible pair programming/screen & keyboard sharing
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To the amazing WebAIM brain trust:

Does anyone have any good solutions for accessible bidirectional screen sharing, preferably optimized for pair programming?

Since I know bidirectional screen sharing can be a real challenge with screen readers, I will admit that while a general-purpose solution would be fantastic, honestly I would just settle for one that works for my particular use case (keyboard/voice). Some people in my office are bouncing around the idea of using Screenhero, which seems to be an unusable black box as far as accessibility is concerned. I don't want to be a naysayer shouting down the use of a new tool which would enable improved programming practice; I'd really like to be able to suggest a viable solution. Right now I'm in the all-too-common, always-degrading position of realizing my coworkers are about to start collaborating in a way that I won't be able to participate in.

Thanks for any suggestions,

Deborah Kaplan

--

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Thu, Sep 17 2015 1:08PM
Subject: Re: accessible pair programming/screen & keyboard sharing
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Hi

If you just mean being able to share your screen with someone (the
equivalent of them looking over your sholder) I have used Google
Hangouts with some success.
You just have to create a meeting (I do it using Google calendar and
make sure to add a video call URL.. there is a link next to the
location section).
Then I join the meeting, and there is a share link.
When it works you should get a menu with a couple of choices, I always
select "desktop".

It works most of the time, but there are times when I click it but
nothing happens, I am unable to bring up the associated menu. When
taht happens I usually ahve to restart the browser and rejoin.


Microsoft LYnc (now Skype for Business) has a god, and quite reliable,
accessible screen sharing, you can even give control of your
workstation to someone and take it back accessibly. But you usually
have to be in a corporate environment with the whole setup to take
advantage.
Cheers



On 9/17/15, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> To the amazing WebAIM brain trust:
>
> Does anyone have any good solutions for accessible bidirectional screen
> sharing, preferably optimized for pair programming?
>
> Since I know bidirectional screen sharing can be a real challenge with
> screen readers, I will admit that while a general-purpose solution would be
> fantastic, honestly I would just settle for one that works for my particular
> use case (keyboard/voice). Some people in my office are bouncing around the
> idea of using Screenhero, which seems to be an unusable black box as far as
> accessibility is concerned. I don't want to be a naysayer shouting down the
> use of a new tool which would enable improved programming practice; I'd
> really like to be able to suggest a viable solution. Right now I'm in the
> all-too-common, always-degrading position of realizing my coworkers are
> about to start collaborating in a way that I won't be able to participate
> in.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions,
>
> Deborah Kaplan
>
> --
> > > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: deborah.kaplan@suberic.net
Date: Thu, Sep 17 2015 1:19PM
Subject: Re: accessible pair programming/screen & keyboard sharing
← Previous message | Next message →

Thanks Birkir, for the prompt response!

We already use Google hangouts extensively. I think in this case we are
looking for something that would allow remote programmers (or anyone
else, I suppose) to code into the same file, collaborating over
keyboard, mouse, etc. input into one environment. So it's as if you have
the co-editing functionality in Google Docs, but generalized to working
over an entire computer.


> Microsoft LYnc (now Skype for Business) has a god, and quite reliable,
> accessible screen sharing, you can even give control of your
> workstation to someone and take it back accessibly. But you usually
> have to be in a corporate environment with the whole setup to take
> advantage.

I hadn't thought of Lync / Skype for business, that's a good one to
investigate, thank you. We have active directory somewhere around, so we
might have some support for Microsoft enterprise products. Thanks!

Deborah Kaplan

From: Jennifer Sutton
Date: Thu, Sep 17 2015 1:24PM
Subject: Re: accessible pair programming/screen & keyboard sharing
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Deborah, Birkir, and others:

While these are great ideas for screen reader users, I'm so very keen to
hear about whether they will work for someone who uses Dragon.

I'd also love to hear from those who are more knowledgeable about the
CVAA than I am regarding whether it has the potential to improve the
"screen sharing" landscape.

As I have been discussing and reading for what seems like decades, both
off and on this list,
using these sharing programs with screen readers can be very hit and
miss, and it can change between versions of software. And by "these," I
mean all of them -- not just the ones Birkir mentioned.

As I see it, it will be incredible when we have a number of choices and
can easily virtually collaborate with counterparts with and without
disabilities to conduct demonstrations, demonstrate best practices, etc.
Video and audio-based demonstrations of issues make the case so much
more clearly than documentation typically seems to do.

Deborah, please do report back to the list regarding your successes (I
hope).

From: Pratik Patel
Date: Thu, Sep 17 2015 2:23PM
Subject: Re: accessible pair programming/screen & keyboard sharing
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Hello all,

If you use NVDA, you also now have an excellent remote desktop plugin available.

If you have a proper license of Office 365 with a business license, you no longer need a business set up to use Skype for Business.

Regards,

Pratik
Founder and CEO, EZFire


Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 17, 2015, at 3:24 PM, Jennifer Sutton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

Deborah, Birkir, and others:

While these are great ideas for screen reader users, I'm so very keen to hear about whether they will work for someone who uses Dragon.

I'd also love to hear from those who are more knowledgeable about the CVAA than I am regarding whether it has the potential to improve the "screen sharing" landscape.

As I have been discussing and reading for what seems like decades, both off and on this list,
using these sharing programs with screen readers can be very hit and miss, and it can change between versions of software. And by "these," I mean all of them -- not just the ones Birkir mentioned.

As I see it, it will be incredible when we have a number of choices and can easily virtually collaborate with counterparts with and without disabilities to conduct demonstrations, demonstrate best practices, etc. Video and audio-based demonstrations of issues make the case so much more clearly than documentation typically seems to do.

Deborah, please do report back to the list regarding your successes (I hope).

From: Jennifer Sutton
Date: Thu, Sep 17 2015 2:36PM
Subject: Re: accessible pair programming/screen & keyboard sharing
← Previous message | Next message →

While I've not tried it, yet, for those who may be interested, you can
find the NVDA Remote add-in that Pratik mentioned, here:
http://nvdaremote.com/


I'll take this opportunity to remind those who use NVDA to test, don't
forget to donate. It matters. And if you've not updated lately, please
do. Upgrading is free, so I think it's pretty safe to assume everyone
does it. The latest version is: 2015-3 at:
http://www.nvaccess.org/download/


Some might find it helpful to know that NVDA Remote was a crowd-funded
project.

So, to bring this back to a more general discussion, maybe, Deborah,
there's an open source one of these that could use some "accessibility
love," i.e. "crowd-funding for all." I'm keen, as I always am, to move
us away from screen reader-centricity, whenever possible.

Best,
Jennifer

From: Asa Baylus
Date: Thu, Sep 17 2015 3:04PM
Subject: Re: accessible pair programming/screen & keyboard sharing
← Previous message | Next message →

You might try tmux

http://collectiveidea.com/blog/archives/2014/02/18/a-simple-pair-programming-setup-with-ssh-and-tmux/

I've no idea how comfortable you are with the terminal but it might be just the thing.

Asa

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 17, 2015, at 3:19 PM, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = wrote:
>
> Thanks Birkir, for the prompt response!
>
> We already use Google hangouts extensively. I think in this case we are
> looking for something that would allow remote programmers (or anyone
> else, I suppose) to code into the same file, collaborating over
> keyboard, mouse, etc. input into one environment. So it's as if you have
> the co-editing functionality in Google Docs, but generalized to working
> over an entire computer.
>
>
>> Microsoft LYnc (now Skype for Business) has a god, and quite reliable,
>> accessible screen sharing, you can even give control of your
>> workstation to someone and take it back accessibly. But you usually
>> have to be in a corporate environment with the whole setup to take
>> advantage.
>
> I hadn't thought of Lync / Skype for business, that's a good one to
> investigate, thank you. We have active directory somewhere around, so we
> might have some support for Microsoft enterprise products. Thanks!
>
> Deborah Kaplan
> > > >

From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Fri, Sep 18 2015 5:51PM
Subject: Re: accessible pair programming/screen & keyboard sharing
← Previous message | Next message →

I was thinking that J-Say and JAWS Tandem might work as a keyboard/Dragon supported solution.

http://www.astec-at.co.uk/whats_new_in_j-say_v11.1.html

Jonathan

--
Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
SSB BART Group
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

703-637-8957 (o)
Follow us: Facebook | Twitter | LinkedIn | Blog | Newsletter


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2015 3:19 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] accessible pair programming/screen & keyboard sharing

Thanks Birkir, for the prompt response!

We already use Google hangouts extensively. I think in this case we are looking for something that would allow remote programmers (or anyone else, I suppose) to code into the same file, collaborating over keyboard, mouse, etc. input into one environment. So it's as if you have the co-editing functionality in Google Docs, but generalized to working over an entire computer.


> Microsoft LYnc (now Skype for Business) has a god, and quite reliable,
> accessible screen sharing, you can even give control of your
> workstation to someone and take it back accessibly. But you usually
> have to be in a corporate environment with the whole setup to take
> advantage.

I hadn't thought of Lync / Skype for business, that's a good one to investigate, thank you. We have active directory somewhere around, so we might have some support for Microsoft enterprise products. Thanks!

Deborah Kaplan

From: Lucy Greco
Date: Fri, Sep 18 2015 6:09PM
Subject: Re: accessible pair programming/screen & keyboard sharing
← Previous message | No next message

unfortunitly j.say is not enough like using jaws to test with so i would
not say that this is a viable option. with when i have j-say installed on
a ystem it changes jaws enough to make it not a acurit test of access.
it alous the user to say things to dragon as well that dragon would not
other wise know about like next button and next block of text and so on
so that option is not viable

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 4:51 PM, Jonathan Avila < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> I was thinking that J-Say and JAWS Tandem might work as a keyboard/Dragon
> supported solution.
>
> http://www.astec-at.co.uk/whats_new_in_j-say_v11.1.html
>
> Jonathan
>
> --
> Jonathan Avila
> Chief Accessibility Officer
> SSB BART Group
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> 703-637-8957 (o)
> Follow us: Facebook | Twitter | LinkedIn | Blog | Newsletter
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2015 3:19 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] accessible pair programming/screen & keyboard sharing
>
> Thanks Birkir, for the prompt response!
>
> We already use Google hangouts extensively. I think in this case we are
> looking for something that would allow remote programmers (or anyone else,
> I suppose) to code into the same file, collaborating over keyboard, mouse,
> etc. input into one environment. So it's as if you have the co-editing
> functionality in Google Docs, but generalized to working over an entire
> computer.
>
>
> > Microsoft LYnc (now Skype for Business) has a god, and quite reliable,
> > accessible screen sharing, you can even give control of your
> > workstation to someone and take it back accessibly. But you usually
> > have to be in a corporate environment with the whole setup to take
> > advantage.
>
> I hadn't thought of Lync / Skype for business, that's a good one to
> investigate, thank you. We have active directory somewhere around, so we
> might have some support for Microsoft enterprise products. Thanks!
>
> Deborah Kaplan
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >



--
Lucia Greco
Web Accessibility Evangelist
IST - Architecture, Platforms, and Integration
University of California, Berkeley
(510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
Follow me on twitter @accessaces