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Thread: PDF Multiline H1 JFW announces tag for each line
Number of posts in this thread: 7 (In chronological order)
From: James Bailey
Date: Thu, Dec 10 2015 4:26PM
Subject: PDF Multiline H1 JFW announces tag for each line
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Good Afternoon,
A department submitted a paper to be put into accessible PDF and the title is indented on the left and the right and breaks into five lines. JAWS announced "heading level one" before each line. I have experimented with various formatting styles (hard returns, soft returns and adjusting the margins so that it word wraps), but the results are the same. It seems to me JAWS should announce the heading level once and then read title Any thoughts? I'm using Word 2013 and Acrobat XI. Please excuse cross posts.
James Bailey
University of Oregon
From: Steve Faulkner
Date: Thu, Dec 10 2015 11:56PM
Subject: Re: PDF Multiline H1 JFW announces tag for each line
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On 10 December 2015 at 23:26, James Bailey < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> It seems to me JAWS should announce the heading level once and then read
> title Any thoughts?
This is observed behaviour across a range of screen readers and formats
(does same in HTML with h1-h6). There is nothing that you can do about it.
--
Regards
SteveF
Current Standards Work @W3C
<http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>;
From: Cliff Tyllick
Date: Fri, Dec 11 2015 6:44AM
Subject: Re: PDF Multiline H1 JFW announces tag for each line
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Should we file bugs?
Cliff Tyllick
Sent from my iPhone
Although its spellcheck often saves me, all goofs in sent messages are its fault.
> On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:56 AM, Steve Faulkner < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> On 10 December 2015 at 23:26, James Bailey < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>
>> It seems to me JAWS should announce the heading level once and then read
>> title Any thoughts?
>
>
> This is observed behaviour across a range of screen readers and formats
> (does same in HTML with h1-h6). There is nothing that you can do about it.
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
> Current Standards Work @W3C
> <http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>;
> > > >
From: Steve Faulkner
Date: Fri, Dec 11 2015 6:48AM
Subject: Re: PDF Multiline H1 JFW announces tag for each line
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Hi Cliff, this comment by James Teh (NVDA developer) on similar behaviour
related to links may be helpful in explaining why it occurs
https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2011/06/html5-accessibility-chops-block-links/#comment-790
--
Regards
SteveF
Current Standards Work @W3C
<http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>;
On 11 December 2015 at 13:44, Cliff Tyllick < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Should we file bugs?
>
> Cliff Tyllick
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> Although its spellcheck often saves me, all goofs in sent messages are its
> fault.
>
> > On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:56 AM, Steve Faulkner < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 10 December 2015 at 23:26, James Bailey < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >>
> >> It seems to me JAWS should announce the heading level once and then read
> >> title Any thoughts?
> >
> >
> > This is observed behaviour across a range of screen readers and formats
> > (does same in HTML with h1-h6). There is nothing that you can do about
> it.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > SteveF
> > Current Standards Work @W3C
> > <
> http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>;
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
From: Chaals McCathie Nevile
Date: Fri, Dec 11 2015 6:49AM
Subject: Re: PDF Multiline H1 JFW announces tag for each line
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On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 16:44:28 +0300, Cliff Tyllick < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Should we file bugs?
Yes, if you can't find that it has already been filed...
cheers
> Cliff Tyllick
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> Although its spellcheck often saves me, all goofs in sent messages are
> its fault.
>
>> On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:56 AM, Steve Faulkner < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10 December 2015 at 23:26, James Bailey < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>
>>> It seems to me JAWS should announce the heading level once and then
>>> read
>>> title Any thoughts?
>>
>>
>> This is observed behaviour across a range of screen readers and formats
>> (does same in HTML with h1-h6). There is nothing that you can do about
>> it.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> SteveF
>> Current Standards Work @W3C
>> <http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>;
>> >> >> >> > > > > --
Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = - - - Find more at http://yandex.com
From: Moore,Michael (Accessibility) (HHSC)
Date: Fri, Dec 11 2015 7:19AM
Subject: Re: PDF Multiline H1 JFW announces tag for each line
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I don't really even consider this to be a problem. The screen reader that I am most familiar with (JAWS) only announces "heading" multiple times when you are reading line by line. If you move by paragraph the heading is announced and the whole thing is read. I believe that the same is true for reading by sentence but I don't navigate that way very often.
If when reading by line the screen reader did not announce that the next line was also a heading of the same level the user is left to guess whether they are in the body or the heading. I think that most experienced users are very familiar with this behavior and expect it.
I frequently observe that we sighties are very quick to suggest ways in which the screen reader ATs should be changed to meet our expectations. This things are not built for us. I would hope that the folks at Freedom, GW Micro, Dolphin, and NVDA pay more attention to their real customers than to us when it comes to changing the behavior of the software and adding new features. We should confine our bug reports to instances when the screen reader fails to support standards, and let the folks who depend on the technology suggest changes in how that support is implemented.
Mike Moore
Accessibility Coordinator
Texas Health and Human Services Commission
Civil Rights Office
(512) 438-3431 (Office)
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Steve Faulkner
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 7:48 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF Multiline H1 JFW announces tag for each line
Hi Cliff, this comment by James Teh (NVDA developer) on similar behaviour related to links may be helpful in explaining why it occurs
https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2011/06/html5-accessibility-chops-block-links/#comment-790
--
Regards
SteveF
Current Standards Work @W3C
<http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>;
On 11 December 2015 at 13:44, Cliff Tyllick < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Should we file bugs?
>
> Cliff Tyllick
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> Although its spellcheck often saves me, all goofs in sent messages are
> its fault.
>
> > On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:56 AM, Steve Faulkner
> > < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 10 December 2015 at 23:26, James Bailey < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >>
> >> It seems to me JAWS should announce the heading level once and then
> >> read title Any thoughts?
> >
> >
> > This is observed behaviour across a range of screen readers and
> > formats (does same in HTML with h1-h6). There is nothing that you
> > can do about
> it.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > SteveF
> > Current Standards Work @W3C
> > <
> http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3
> c/>
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
From: Moore,Michael (Accessibility) (HHSC)
Date: Mon, Dec 14 2015 3:12PM
Subject: Re: PDF Multiline H1 JFW announces tag for each line
← Previous message | No next message
Have you tried navigating using the "p" key rather than line by line?
Mike Moore
Accessibility Coordinator
Texas Health and Human Services Commission
Civil Rights Office
(512) 438-3431 (Office)
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of James Bailey
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:27 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] PDF Multiline H1 JFW announces tag for each line
Good Afternoon,
A department submitted a paper to be put into accessible PDF and the title is indented on the left and the right and breaks into five lines. JAWS announced "heading level one" before each line. I have experimented with various formatting styles (hard returns, soft returns and adjusting the margins so that it word wraps), but the results are the same. It seems to me JAWS should announce the heading level once and then read title Any thoughts? I'm using Word 2013 and Acrobat XI. Please excuse cross posts.
James Bailey
University of Oregon