E-mail List Archives

Search E-mail List Archives for

Number of posts in this thread: 7 (In chronological order)

From: Ilana Gordon
Date: Tue, Jun 28 2016 11:00AM
Subject: Calibri font issues
No previous message | Next message →

Hello all,

For a while now we have been encountering font issues with documents that
have been produced using Calibri. Very often the content panel shows
gibberish and the ligatures will not read properly in JAWS.

Has anyone had similar issues and are there fixes if the original document
is not available?

Ilana

--
Ilana Gordon
President
Word Wizards, Inc
8609 2nd Avenue, Unit 406-B
Silver Spring, MD 20910
*v.*301-986-0808 *fax.*301-986-0809
*Direct: 240-380-2639*
www.wordwizardsinc.com

From: Jim Allan
Date: Tue, Jun 28 2016 12:00PM
Subject: Re: Calibri font issues
← Previous message | Next message →

do you have a sample document?

On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Ilana Gordon < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> For a while now we have been encountering font issues with documents that
> have been produced using Calibri. Very often the content panel shows
> gibberish and the ligatures will not read properly in JAWS.
>
> Has anyone had similar issues and are there fixes if the original document
> is not available?
>
> Ilana
>
> --
> Ilana Gordon
> President
> Word Wizards, Inc
> 8609 2nd Avenue, Unit 406-B
> Silver Spring, MD 20910
> *v.*301-986-0808 *fax.*301-986-0809
> *Direct: 240-380-2639*
> www.wordwizardsinc.com
> > > > >



--
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964

From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Tue, Jun 28 2016 5:10PM
Subject: Re: Calibri font issues
← Previous message | Next message →

Re ligatures:
Generally many aren't recognized by screen readers, regardless of the font.

Re gibberish:
That is common when fonts aren't embedded in the PDF. Also affects ligatures and bullets.

Sounds like this PDF was incorrectly made from InDesign--one of the few programs that uses ligatures. So uncheck the ligatures option in your styles.

We and our clients use Calibri (and its sister ClearType fonts such as Cambria) without problems. The "tuner" on user's computer can cause problems, but the font itself is like any other Unicode/OpenType font. Has very good readability and legibility for both print and screen.

-Bevi Chagnon
— — —
Bevi Chagnon | www.PubCom.com
Technologists, Consultants, Trainers, Designers, and Developers
for publishing & communication
| Acrobat PDF | Print | EPUBS | Sec. 508 Accessibility |
— — —




-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Ilana Gordon
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 1:01 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Calibri font issues

Hello all,

For a while now we have been encountering font issues with documents that have been produced using Calibri. Very often the content panel shows gibberish and the ligatures will not read properly in JAWS.

Has anyone had similar issues and are there fixes if the original document is not available?

Ilana

--
Ilana Gordon
President
Word Wizards, Inc
8609 2nd Avenue, Unit 406-B
Silver Spring, MD 20910
*v.*301-986-0808 *fax.*301-986-0809
*Direct: 240-380-2639*
www.wordwizardsinc.com

From: Ilana Gordon
Date: Wed, Jun 29 2016 7:37AM
Subject: Re: Calibri font issues
← Previous message | Next message →

Thanks Bevi. As designers we know and understand the process. But when
remediating documents from outside sources where we don't have control and
the original is unavailable, is there a magic wand that can fix these
issues? We have not found anything yet and the only recourse is to search
the PDF and fix manually if possible.

What I'm trying to figure out is why Calibri works in some docs and not in
others. Is it a Microsoft issue? Apparently this is a documented bug with
Acrobat.

Any insight is appreciated.

Ilana

On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 7:10 PM, Chagnon | PubCom < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> Re ligatures:
> Generally many aren't recognized by screen readers, regardless of the font.
>
> Re gibberish:
> That is common when fonts aren't embedded in the PDF. Also affects
> ligatures and bullets.
>
> Sounds like this PDF was incorrectly made from InDesign--one of the few
> programs that uses ligatures. So uncheck the ligatures option in your
> styles.
>
> We and our clients use Calibri (and its sister ClearType fonts such as
> Cambria) without problems. The "tuner" on user's computer can cause
> problems, but the font itself is like any other Unicode/OpenType font. Has
> very good readability and legibility for both print and screen.
>
> -Bevi Chagnon
> — — —
> Bevi Chagnon | www.PubCom.com
> Technologists, Consultants, Trainers, Designers, and Developers
> for publishing & communication
> | Acrobat PDF | Print | EPUBS | Sec. 508 Accessibility |
> — — —
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Ilana Gordon
> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 1:01 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] Calibri font issues
>
> Hello all,
>
> For a while now we have been encountering font issues with documents that
> have been produced using Calibri. Very often the content panel shows
> gibberish and the ligatures will not read properly in JAWS.
>
> Has anyone had similar issues and are there fixes if the original document
> is not available?
>
> Ilana
>
> --
> Ilana Gordon
> President
> Word Wizards, Inc
> 8609 2nd Avenue, Unit 406-B
> Silver Spring, MD 20910
> *v.*301-986-0808 *fax.*301-986-0809
> *Direct: 240-380-2639*
> www.wordwizardsinc.com
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
> > > > >



--
Ilana Gordon
President
Word Wizards, Inc
8609 2nd Avenue, Unit 406-B
Silver Spring, MD 20910
*v.*301-986-0808 *fax.*301-986-0809
*Direct: 240-380-2639*
www.wordwizardsinc.com

From: Olaf Drümmer
Date: Wed, Jun 29 2016 7:46AM
Subject: Re: Calibri font issues
← Previous message | Next message →

Maybe JAWS needs to be fixed?

In earnest:
InDesign will usually write out ligatures just fine. It will insert information that serves reliable mapping from ligatures to the underlying individual characters. It would be a sign of lack of respect for typographical quality to not use ligatures where they make sense.

That much said: so far we have not established the actual reason(s) for the reported issue. I'd be happy to look at a sample document, if clear and specific descriptions are provided as to what the actual problems are, and exactly where they can be located in the resp. sample PDF.

Olaf

> On 29.06.2016, at 15:37, Ilana Gordon < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Thanks Bevi. As designers we know and understand the process. But when
> remediating documents from outside sources where we don't have control and
> the original is unavailable, is there a magic wand that can fix these
> issues? We have not found anything yet and the only recourse is to search
> the PDF and fix manually if possible.
>
> What I'm trying to figure out is why Calibri works in some docs and not in
> others. Is it a Microsoft issue? Apparently this is a documented bug with
> Acrobat.
>
> Any insight is appreciated.
>
> Ilana
>
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 7:10 PM, Chagnon | PubCom < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>
>> Re ligatures:
>> Generally many aren't recognized by screen readers, regardless of the font.
>>
>> Re gibberish:
>> That is common when fonts aren't embedded in the PDF. Also affects
>> ligatures and bullets.
>>
>> Sounds like this PDF was incorrectly made from InDesign--one of the few
>> programs that uses ligatures. So uncheck the ligatures option in your
>> styles.
>>
>> We and our clients use Calibri (and its sister ClearType fonts such as
>> Cambria) without problems. The "tuner" on user's computer can cause
>> problems, but the font itself is like any other Unicode/OpenType font. Has
>> very good readability and legibility for both print and screen.
>>
>> -Bevi Chagnon
>> — — —
>> Bevi Chagnon | www.PubCom.com
>> Technologists, Consultants, Trainers, Designers, and Developers
>> for publishing & communication
>> | Acrobat PDF | Print | EPUBS | Sec. 508 Accessibility |
>> — — —
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
>> Behalf Of Ilana Gordon
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 1:01 PM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> Subject: [WebAIM] Calibri font issues
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> For a while now we have been encountering font issues with documents that
>> have been produced using Calibri. Very often the content panel shows
>> gibberish and the ligatures will not read properly in JAWS.
>>
>> Has anyone had similar issues and are there fixes if the original document
>> is not available?
>>
>> Ilana
>>
>> --
>> Ilana Gordon
>> President
>> Word Wizards, Inc
>> 8609 2nd Avenue, Unit 406-B
>> Silver Spring, MD 20910
>> *v.*301-986-0808 *fax.*301-986-0809
>> *Direct: 240-380-2639*
>> www.wordwizardsinc.com
>> >> >> at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>
>
>
> --
> Ilana Gordon
> President
> Word Wizards, Inc
> 8609 2nd Avenue, Unit 406-B
> Silver Spring, MD 20910
> *v.*301-986-0808 *fax.*301-986-0809
> *Direct: 240-380-2639*
> www.wordwizardsinc.com
> > > >

From: Tyllick,Cliff S (DADS)
Date: Wed, Jun 29 2016 12:22PM
Subject: Re: Calibri font issues
← Previous message | Next message →

How does the use of ligatures affect people with low moderate vision, dyslexia, or other conditions that make text recognition a challenge?

Cliff

Cliff Tyllick
EIR Accessibility Coordinator
Texas Department of Aging and Disability Services (DADS)
512-438-2494
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =



-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Olaf Drümmer
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 8:47 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Calibri font issues

Maybe JAWS needs to be fixed?

In earnest:
InDesign will usually write out ligatures just fine. It will insert information that serves reliable mapping from ligatures to the underlying individual characters. It would be a sign of lack of respect for typographical quality to not use ligatures where they make sense.

That much said: so far we have not established the actual reason(s) for the reported issue. I'd be happy to look at a sample document, if clear and specific descriptions are provided as to what the actual problems are, and exactly where they can be located in the resp. sample PDF.

Olaf

> On 29.06.2016, at 15:37, Ilana Gordon < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Thanks Bevi. As designers we know and understand the process. But when
> remediating documents from outside sources where we don't have control and
> the original is unavailable, is there a magic wand that can fix these
> issues? We have not found anything yet and the only recourse is to search
> the PDF and fix manually if possible.
>
> What I'm trying to figure out is why Calibri works in some docs and not in
> others. Is it a Microsoft issue? Apparently this is a documented bug with
> Acrobat.
>
> Any insight is appreciated.
>
> Ilana
>
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 7:10 PM, Chagnon | PubCom < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>
>> Re ligatures:
>> Generally many aren't recognized by screen readers, regardless of the font.
>>
>> Re gibberish:
>> That is common when fonts aren't embedded in the PDF. Also affects
>> ligatures and bullets.
>>
>> Sounds like this PDF was incorrectly made from InDesign--one of the few
>> programs that uses ligatures. So uncheck the ligatures option in your
>> styles.
>>
>> We and our clients use Calibri (and its sister ClearType fonts such as
>> Cambria) without problems. The "tuner" on user's computer can cause
>> problems, but the font itself is like any other Unicode/OpenType font. Has
>> very good readability and legibility for both print and screen.
>>
>> -Bevi Chagnon
>> — — —
>> Bevi Chagnon | www.PubCom.com
>> Technologists, Consultants, Trainers, Designers, and Developers
>> for publishing & communication
>> | Acrobat PDF | Print | EPUBS | Sec. 508 Accessibility |
>> — — —
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
>> Behalf Of Ilana Gordon
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 1:01 PM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> Subject: [WebAIM] Calibri font issues
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> For a while now we have been encountering font issues with documents that
>> have been produced using Calibri. Very often the content panel shows
>> gibberish and the ligatures will not read properly in JAWS.
>>
>> Has anyone had similar issues and are there fixes if the original document
>> is not available?
>>
>> Ilana
>>
>> --
>> Ilana Gordon
>> President
>> Word Wizards, Inc
>> 8609 2nd Avenue, Unit 406-B
>> Silver Spring, MD 20910
>> *v.*301-986-0808 *fax.*301-986-0809
>> *Direct: 240-380-2639*
>> www.wordwizardsinc.com
>> >> >> at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>
>
>
> --
> Ilana Gordon
> President
> Word Wizards, Inc
> 8609 2nd Avenue, Unit 406-B
> Silver Spring, MD 20910
> *v.*301-986-0808 *fax.*301-986-0809
> *Direct: 240-380-2639*
> www.wordwizardsinc.com
> > > >

From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Wed, Jun 29 2016 6:36PM
Subject: Re: Calibri font issues
← Previous message | No next message

Cliff wrote:
"How does the use of ligatures affect people with low moderate vision,
dyslexia, or other conditions that make text recognition a challenge?"

Depends upon the font and the ligature.
Most common ligatures really shouldn't affect readability/legibility for
those with text recognition impairments. The most common ligatures are ff,
fi, fl, and ffl because crossbars and ascenders tend to merge into one
another.

But some fonts go overboard on some ligatures with over-embellished swashes
and other parts of the characters, making it difficult for most people to
discern.

Screen caps attached;
First shows the fi ligature in Calibri, which is quite legible and shouldn't
cause any reading problems.
Second shows the st ligature in Minion Pro, which sports an embellished
swash connecting the s and t that makes it difficult for some people to
recognize the individual letters.

Bottom line:
1. Before using ligatures, make sure that the ones you'll use are readable.
2. Check which ligatures are available on your fonts using a character
chart, such as the built-in ones with the Windows and Apple operating
systems, or the Insert/Symbol command in MS Word.
3. Not all fonts have ligatures; it depends upon the font designer to
include them in the font's character set, and if so, how many letter
combinations will have ligatures.

--Bevi Chagnon

- - -
Bevi Chagnon | www.PubCom.com
Technologists, Consultants, Trainers, Designers, and Developers for
publishing & communication
| Acrobat PDF | Print | EPUBS | Sec. 508 Accessibility |
- - -