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Number of posts in this thread: 9 (In chronological order)

From: Sarah Ferguson
Date: Wed, Aug 31 2016 2:56PM
Subject: PDF Accessibility and Copyright
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We have a lot of PDFs on our university site and it's my goal to make them
as accessible as possible. If we own the material, it is one thing, but
what if we don't? For example, we have government forms and published
journal articles. We have permission to have these materials on our web
site, but do we have the right to alter them by adding tags, alt text, etc?
Is there a fair use rule that applies or do we need permission from each
source?

--
Sarah Ferguson
Web Accessibility Specialist
Department of Digital Communications

From: L Snider
Date: Wed, Aug 31 2016 3:10PM
Subject: Re: PDF Accessibility and Copyright
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Hi Sarah,

I remember seeing something recently on 3rd party produced videos and
captioning. From memory there was just a ruling in the last 6-8 months that
allowed a library (I think it was a library) to caption the third party
material, even though they didn't own the material. I tried to find the
reference, but am still looking. I know that was a different media, but the
premise in the similar...

Cheers

Lisa

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 3:56 PM, Sarah Ferguson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> We have a lot of PDFs on our university site and it's my goal to make them
> as accessible as possible. If we own the material, it is one thing, but
> what if we don't? For example, we have government forms and published
> journal articles. We have permission to have these materials on our web
> site, but do we have the right to alter them by adding tags, alt text, etc?
> Is there a fair use rule that applies or do we need permission from each
> source?
>
> --
> Sarah Ferguson
> Web Accessibility Specialist
> Department of Digital Communications
> > > > >

From: Joseph Sherman
Date: Thu, Sep 01 2016 7:40AM
Subject: Re: PDF Accessibility and Copyright
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Almost all government forms are required by law to be accessible. Perhaps there is an accessible version on the government website, or you can try contacting the office responsible for the form and requesting an accessible form. They might already have one.

Joseph

> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> On Behalf Of Sarah Ferguson
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 4:57 PM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: [WebAIM] PDF Accessibility and Copyright
>
> We have a lot of PDFs on our university site and it's my goal to make them as
> accessible as possible. If we own the material, it is one thing, but what if we
> don't? For example, we have government forms and published journal
> articles. We have permission to have these materials on our web site, but do
> we have the right to alter them by adding tags, alt text, etc?
> Is there a fair use rule that applies or do we need permission from each
> source?
>
> --
> Sarah Ferguson
> Web Accessibility Specialist
> Department of Digital Communications
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>

From: Duff Johnson
Date: Thu, Sep 01 2016 7:55AM
Subject: Re: PDF Accessibility and Copyright
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Unlike HTML or other formats, adding structuring elements to a PDF document does not "alter" the untagged (visual) appearance of the document, but merely makes the existing document accessible (subject to limits imposed by the source).

Yes, users and software both sometimes make mistakes that result in changes to appearance, but that's another issue.

It's difficult to see how any agency might take offense at such action, but even though some of my best friends are lawyers I've learned not to try to predict their concerns. :-)

Duff.

>> We have a lot of PDFs on our university site and it's my goal to make them as
>> accessible as possible. If we own the material, it is one thing, but what if we
>> don't? For example, we have government forms and published journal
>> articles. We have permission to have these materials on our web site, but do
>> we have the right to alter them by adding tags, alt text, etc?
>> Is there a fair use rule that applies or do we need permission from each
>> source?

From: Joseph Feria-Galicia
Date: Thu, Sep 01 2016 10:57AM
Subject: Re: PDF Accessibility and Copyright
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Sarah,
Thanks so much for raising this question. It is very relevant to many of
us and I'm hoping to gain further insight on how this relates to the
Author's Guild vs. HathiTrust case. Any experts out there?

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 6:55 AM, Duff Johnson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Unlike HTML or other formats, adding structuring elements to a PDF
> document does not "alter" the untagged (visual) appearance of the document,
> but merely makes the existing document accessible (subject to limits
> imposed by the source).
>
> Yes, users and software both sometimes make mistakes that result in
> changes to appearance, but that's another issue.
>
> It's difficult to see how any agency might take offense at such action,
> but even though some of my best friends are lawyers I've learned not to try
> to predict their concerns. :-)
>
> Duff.
>
> >> We have a lot of PDFs on our university site and it's my goal to make
> them as
> >> accessible as possible. If we own the material, it is one thing, but
> what if we
> >> don't? For example, we have government forms and published journal
> >> articles. We have permission to have these materials on our web site,
> but do
> >> we have the right to alter them by adding tags, alt text, etc?
> >> Is there a fair use rule that applies or do we need permission from each
> >> source?
>
> > > > >



--
*Accessibility Team Lead / Instructional Designer*
Berkeley Resource Center for Online Education (BRCOE)
Suite 453C
1995 University Avenue
Berkeley, CA 94710
Phone: 1 510 664-4017
http://online.berkeley.edu

From: Tim Harshbarger
Date: Thu, Sep 01 2016 11:57AM
Subject: Re: PDF Accessibility and Copyright
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Any time copyright is involved, I would suggest seeking advice from an attorney. Something tells me that whether or not you can alter those other documents might have something to do with the type of permission you were given and how they are being used.

Another option is to reach out to those organizations and check to see if they are ok with extending you permission to make those documents accessible--it is also possible that they might have already done that work for you and may have a newer more accessible version available.

Something else you might also check into is whether or not those PDFs are still needed. Unfortunately, people have a tendency to publish things to the web and then forget they are there. The information might no longer be accurate or useful and if they are willing to take down the PDF, that is one less PDF you need to tackle.

Thanks,
Tim


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Joseph Feria-Galicia
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2016 11:57 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF Accessibility and Copyright

Sarah,
Thanks so much for raising this question. It is very relevant to many of
us and I'm hoping to gain further insight on how this relates to the
Author's Guild vs. HathiTrust case. Any experts out there?

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 6:55 AM, Duff Johnson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Unlike HTML or other formats, adding structuring elements to a PDF
> document does not "alter" the untagged (visual) appearance of the document,
> but merely makes the existing document accessible (subject to limits
> imposed by the source).
>
> Yes, users and software both sometimes make mistakes that result in
> changes to appearance, but that's another issue.
>
> It's difficult to see how any agency might take offense at such action,
> but even though some of my best friends are lawyers I've learned not to try
> to predict their concerns. :-)
>
> Duff.
>
> >> We have a lot of PDFs on our university site and it's my goal to make
> them as
> >> accessible as possible. If we own the material, it is one thing, but
> what if we
> >> don't? For example, we have government forms and published journal
> >> articles. We have permission to have these materials on our web site,
> but do
> >> we have the right to alter them by adding tags, alt text, etc?
> >> Is there a fair use rule that applies or do we need permission from each
> >> source?
>
> > > > >



--
*Accessibility Team Lead / Instructional Designer*
Berkeley Resource Center for Online Education (BRCOE)
Suite 453C
1995 University Avenue
Berkeley, CA 94710
Phone: 1 510 664-4017
http://online.berkeley.edu

From: chaals@yandex-team.ru
Date: Thu, Sep 01 2016 12:15PM
Subject: Re: PDF Accessibility and Copyright
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+1 to everything Tim said. In particular, ask your legal department at the university. That's what they're paid for. Or the risk management division of the administration.

I'm not a lawyer, but I have come across this question. It depends in part where you are. In Australia, for example, you need to go through a stupid pile of legal hoops before you have the right to deal with the content - and every single time you make it available to someone. In the US and many other places, under the Marrakech treaty, you generally have a right to simply go right ahead, so long as what you are doing cannot be construed as actually just publishing stuff you have no right to publish.

Note that I am not sure how the DMCA applies in the US or countries who have adopted its terrible legal framework by treaty. It provides specific penalties for circumventing copy protection.

cheers

Chaals

01.09.2016, 19:57, "Tim Harshbarger" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >:
> Any time copyright is involved, I would suggest seeking advice from an attorney. Something tells me that whether or not you can alter those other documents might have something to do with the type of permission you were given and how they are being used.
>
> Another option is to reach out to those organizations and check to see if they are ok with extending you permission to make those documents accessible--it is also possible that they might have already done that work for you and may have a newer more accessible version available.
>
> Something else you might also check into is whether or not those PDFs are still needed. Unfortunately, people have a tendency to publish things to the web and then forget they are there. The information might no longer be accurate or useful and if they are willing to take down the PDF, that is one less PDF you need to tackle.
>
> Thanks,
> Tim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Joseph Feria-Galicia
> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2016 11:57 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF Accessibility and Copyright
>
> Sarah,
> Thanks so much for raising this question. It is very relevant to many of
> us and I'm hoping to gain further insight on how this relates to the
> Author's Guild vs. HathiTrust case. Any experts out there?
>
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 6:55 AM, Duff Johnson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>>  Unlike HTML or other formats, adding structuring elements to a PDF
>>  document does not "alter" the untagged (visual) appearance of the document,
>>  but merely makes the existing document accessible (subject to limits
>>  imposed by the source).
>>
>>  Yes, users and software both sometimes make mistakes that result in
>>  changes to appearance, but that's another issue.
>>
>>  It's difficult to see how any agency might take offense at such action,
>>  but even though some of my best friends are lawyers I've learned not to try
>>  to predict their concerns. :-)
>>
>>  Duff.
>>
>>  >> We have a lot of PDFs on our university site and it's my goal to make
>>  them as
>>  >> accessible as possible. If we own the material, it is one thing, but
>>  what if we
>>  >> don't? For example, we have government forms and published journal
>>  >> articles. We have permission to have these materials on our web site,
>>  but do
>>  >> we have the right to alter them by adding tags, alt text, etc?
>>  >> Is there a fair use rule that applies or do we need permission from each
>>  >> source?
>>
>>  >>  >>  >>  >
> --
> *Accessibility Team Lead / Instructional Designer*
> Berkeley Resource Center for Online Education (BRCOE)
> Suite 453C
> 1995 University Avenue
> Berkeley, CA 94710
> Phone: 1 510 664-4017
> http://online.berkeley.edu
> > > > > > > > --
Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = - - - Find more at http://yandex.com

From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Thu, Sep 01 2016 12:19PM
Subject: Re: PDF Accessibility and Copyright
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RE: government forms, check to see if newer versions are available from the government agencies. Over the past few years, agencies have whittled down their large backlog of inaccessible forms, and the ones you currently have might be out of date, replaced with accessible ones by the agency.

--Bevi Chagnon

— — —
Bevi Chagnon | www.PubCom.com
Technologists, Consultants, Trainers, Designers, and Developers
for publishing & communication
| Acrobat PDF | Print | EPUBS | Sec. 508 Accessibility |
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From: Sarah Ferguson
Date: Thu, Sep 01 2016 12:23PM
Subject: Re: Rs: PDF Accessibility and Copyright (Sarah Ferguson)
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Thanks, everyone.

All of you have made arguments that I myself have made here, as well :)

Youtube allows users to caption other's materials through fair use.

I'm hoping the government forms will already be accessible and I do think
we could request accessible versions from them if they are not.

The Journal ones...I was also thinking that adding tags would not be
apparent, but I'd hate to run into particularly litigious individuals who
are just looking for copyright infringement on a technicality. We try to be
extra careful here. Unless I find a specific law or precedent cited, I plan
to have the permission people go through each contract and get permission
in writing for the changes we wish to make. We could also ask at that time
for newer versions of the files, if they exist.

We are also using the new policy of forced accessibility to weed out PDFs
that aren't imperative to the web site. Some rely far too much on PDFs when
there are better ways!

thanks,
Sarah

--
Sarah Ferguson
Web Accessibility Specialist
Department of Digital Communications