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From: Ramakrishnan Subramanian
Date: Thu, Dec 01 2016 8:01AM
Subject: Tab focus going to the beginning of Iframe:
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Dear members,

I kindly request for your inputs for the below mentioned issue:

When we navigate using tab key
From outside of the frame, when we tab into the frame, first the focus
is going to the beginning boundary of the Iframe which is not an
interactive element.
Then when we do tab, the focus is going to the link which is the first
interactive element inside the frame.

FYI:
This happens both in IE 11 as well as in FF 45
Inside the iframe we have only some links and texts. No form fields.

Is this an expected behavior?
Or, should we flag this as an accessibility issue since the focus is
going to the non-interactive element?

If you consider this as an issue, could you please suggest a best
possible solution for this issue?

Thanks for your inputs.
Ram

From:
Date: Thu, Dec 01 2016 8:30AM
Subject: Re: Tab focus going to the beginning of Iframe:
← Previous message | Next message →

On 01/12/2016 15:01, Ramakrishnan Subramanian wrote:
> When we navigate using tab key
> From outside of the frame, when we tab into the frame, first the focus
> is going to the beginning boundary of the Iframe which is not an
> interactive element.
> Then when we do tab, the focus is going to the link which is the first
> interactive element inside the frame.

This does not sound like typical behaviour. There may be many reasons
why it is happening though. Do you have an example you can share?


Léonie.


--
@LeonieWatson tink.uk Carpe diem

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Thu, Dec 01 2016 8:32AM
Subject: Re: Tab focus going to the beginning of Iframe:
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Don't have the setup to try it right now, but from memory the "iframe
itself gets focus first" is default behavior when using NVDA?

P

On 01/12/2016 16:30, Léonie Watson wrote:
> On 01/12/2016 15:01, Ramakrishnan Subramanian wrote:
>> When we navigate using tab key
>> From outside of the frame, when we tab into the frame, first the focus
>> is going to the beginning boundary of the Iframe which is not an
>> interactive element.
>> Then when we do tab, the focus is going to the link which is the first
>> interactive element inside the frame.
>
> This does not sound like typical behaviour. There may be many reasons
> why it is happening though. Do you have an example you can share?
>
>
> Léonie.
>
>

--
Patrick H. Lauke

www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Thu, Dec 01 2016 9:09AM
Subject: Re: Tab focus going to the beginning of Iframe:
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> This happens both in IE 11 as well as in FF 45 Inside the iframe we have only some links and texts. No form fields.

In most browsers iFrames are tab stops so keyboard only users can navigate to them with the keyboard to do things like scrolling the frame when there are no interactive items. Focusable iframes are also helpful when using commands like F6 that allow a user to move focus to the frames aiding in bypassing blocks of content.

Jonathan

Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
SSB BART Group 
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
703.637.8957 (Office)

Visit us online: Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog
Don't miss Trends in Accessibility & Electronic Documents on Wed 12/7!

The information contained in this transmission may be attorney privileged and/or confidential information intended for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Ramakrishnan Subramanian
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:02 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] Tab focus going to the beginning of Iframe:

Dear members,

I kindly request for your inputs for the below mentioned issue:

When we navigate using tab key
From outside of the frame, when we tab into the frame, first the focus is going to the beginning boundary of the Iframe which is not an interactive element.
Then when we do tab, the focus is going to the link which is the first interactive element inside the frame.

FYI:
This happens both in IE 11 as well as in FF 45 Inside the iframe we have only some links and texts. No form fields.

Is this an expected behavior?
Or, should we flag this as an accessibility issue since the focus is going to the non-interactive element?

If you consider this as an issue, could you please suggest a best possible solution for this issue?

Thanks for your inputs.
Ram

From: JP Jamous
Date: Thu, Dec 01 2016 10:21AM
Subject: Re: Tab focus going to the beginning of Iframe:
← Previous message | Next message →

RAM,

It sounds to me like the browser is considering the iframe as an object, which it is, but allowing it to obtain keyboard focus.

If the user is tabbing through the form with a screen reader, it might be confusing to jump from the outer links to the inner ones. So selecting the iframe and announcing its title might give the user a better image of how the page is laid out.

If you want to bypass the iframe, have you tried to set its tabindex="-1" and see if that makes a different?

You can also write onfocus event that moves the tab focus to the first link in the iframe as soon as the iframe gets the focus.

What you are experiencing does not violate WCAG. It is more of a UX issue.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Ramakrishnan Subramanian
Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 9:02 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] Tab focus going to the beginning of Iframe:

Dear members,

I kindly request for your inputs for the below mentioned issue:

When we navigate using tab key
From outside of the frame, when we tab into the frame, first the focus is going to the beginning boundary of the Iframe which is not an interactive element.
Then when we do tab, the focus is going to the link which is the first interactive element inside the frame.

FYI:
This happens both in IE 11 as well as in FF 45 Inside the iframe we have only some links and texts. No form fields.

Is this an expected behavior?
Or, should we flag this as an accessibility issue since the focus is going to the non-interactive element?

If you consider this as an issue, could you please suggest a best possible solution for this issue?

Thanks for your inputs.
Ram

From:
Date: Thu, Dec 01 2016 11:14AM
Subject: Re: Tab focus going to the beginning of Iframe:
← Previous message | Next message →

On 01/12/2016 15:32, Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
> Don't have the setup to try it right now, but from memory the "iframe
> itself gets focus first" is default behavior when using NVDA?

You're right. I put together a scratch test case, and NVDA does seem to
treat the <ifram> itself as a focusable object.

Léonie.


--
@LeonieWatson tink.uk Carpe diem

From: Maxability Accessibility for all
Date: Thu, Dec 01 2016 9:38PM
Subject: Re: Tab focus going to the beginning of Iframe:
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Ram,

Using NVDA and FF we always encounter this. I don't think you can do
something to fix it. We earlier used to treat this as empty tab stop but
later realized that is a browser bug than a developer problem.
Try navigating the page with tab in forms mode (insert space bar) , you
will not see the empty tab stop at the beginning of the frame.
Finally in my thought you need to flag it as user agent defect.
HTH

Rakesh


On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 11:44 PM, Léonie Watson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> On 01/12/2016 15:32, Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
>
>> Don't have the setup to try it right now, but from memory the "iframe
>> itself gets focus first" is default behavior when using NVDA?
>>
>
> You're right. I put together a scratch test case, and NVDA does seem to
> treat the <ifram> itself as a focusable object.
>
> Léonie.
>
>
> --
> @LeonieWatson tink.uk Carpe diem
>
> > > > >

From: Ramakrishnan Subramanian
Date: Fri, Dec 02 2016 8:41AM
Subject: Re: Tab focus going to the beginning of Iframe:
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi,
Thanks for your inputs
We observed this behavior when tested with jaws and also when we
tested without any screen reader.
but this is not happening in Chrome.

Thanks
Ram

On 12/1/16, Ramakrishnan Subramanian < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Dear members,
>
> I kindly request for your inputs for the below mentioned issue:
>
> When we navigate using tab key
> From outside of the frame, when we tab into the frame, first the focus
> is going to the beginning boundary of the Iframe which is not an
> interactive element.
> Then when we do tab, the focus is going to the link which is the first
> interactive element inside the frame.
>
> FYI:
> This happens both in IE 11 as well as in FF 45
> Inside the iframe we have only some links and texts. No form fields.
>
> Is this an expected behavior?
> Or, should we flag this as an accessibility issue since the focus is
> going to the non-interactive element?
>
> If you consider this as an issue, could you please suggest a best
> possible solution for this issue?
>
> Thanks for your inputs.
> Ram
>

From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Sun, Dec 04 2016 3:16PM
Subject: Re: Tab focus going to the beginning of Iframe:
← Previous message | No next message

> Using NVDA and FF we always encounter this. I don't think you can do something to fix it. We earlier used to treat this as empty tab stop but later realized that is a browser bug than a developer problem.

My solution to NVDA not announcing anything on the iframe is to place a container around the iframe with a region role and provide an accessible name on the surrounding region. When tabbing NVDA will announce the name of the region because it announces the name of a region change on tab.

Jonathan

Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
SSB BART Group 
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
703.637.8957 (Office)

Visit us online: Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog
Don't miss Trends in Accessibility & Electronic Documents on Wed 12/7!

The information contained in this transmission may be attorney privileged and/or confidential information intended for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Maxability Accessibility for all
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 11:39 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Tab focus going to the beginning of Iframe:

Hi Ram,

Using NVDA and FF we always encounter this. I don't think you can do something to fix it. We earlier used to treat this as empty tab stop but later realized that is a browser bug than a developer problem.
Try navigating the page with tab in forms mode (insert space bar) , you will not see the empty tab stop at the beginning of the frame.
Finally in my thought you need to flag it as user agent defect.
HTH

Rakesh


On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 11:44 PM, Léonie Watson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> On 01/12/2016 15:32, Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
>
>> Don't have the setup to try it right now, but from memory the "iframe
>> itself gets focus first" is default behavior when using NVDA?
>>
>
> You're right. I put together a scratch test case, and NVDA does seem
> to treat the <ifram> itself as a focusable object.
>
> Léonie.
>
>
> --
> @LeonieWatson tink.uk Carpe diem
>
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >