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Thread: Specifications for AT testing computers

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Number of posts in this thread: 12 (In chronological order)

From: James Buller
Date: Fri, Jun 23 2017 5:31AM
Subject: Specifications for AT testing computers
No previous message | Next message →

Hi


I need to write a procurement request for computers to use for conducting accessibility audits and assistive technology testing or experience sessons.

I'd like any advice on what to ask for and what to avoid.


We'll need to be a local administrator to facilitate adding software and browser extensions as need arises..

I'm thinking a Macbook to provide Voiceover and Safari, with Windows 7/10 virtual machines including assistive technologies might work?
Does that sound sensible or would we encounter problems such as performance or not detect certain things if not doing things directly on a PC?
Any thoughts on versions of assistive technology to install and any conflicts to be aware of?
My list, so far, partly based on software provided internally, is:

* JAWS
* Zoomtext
* Supernova
* NVDA
* Dragon
* Read&Write Gold
* Claro Read
* Magic
* Lunar
* Nib Clickless
* Innovation
* Work Pace

Regards

James Buller




Please ensure that any communication with Home Office Digital is via an official account ending with digital.homeoffice.gov.uk or homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk. This email and any files transmitted with it are private and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please return it to the address it came from telling them it is not for you and then delete it from your system. Communications via the digital.homeoffice.gov.uk domain may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes. This email message has been swept for computer viruses.

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Fri, Jun 23 2017 6:20AM
Subject: Re: Specifications for AT testing computers
← Previous message | Next message →

James

If this is regular website testing I think your list is way too ambitious.
For screen reader I would ensureNVDA with Firefox (NVDA with Chrome is
also becoming impressively good).
I don't really see the need for testing with Jaws, but it doesn't hurt
(other than the wallet).
For a screen magnifier I would just do Zoomtext, I wouldn't do multiple ones.

Spot test with Dragon (speech recognition is cool) spot test more with
Zoomtext (screen magnification and zooming is important t a lot o
people), but do the most thorough testing with a screen reader (not
because they matter most, but because testing with them reveals most
of the semantic and ARIA issues).

assistive technology support primarily requires coding to standards,
and testing with each a.t./browser combination is both expensive, time
consuming and requires expertise.

Re running Windows VM on Macs, it works for the most part, though
people often have difficulty making the ctrl key work properly on the
VM. It may require significan key mapping. I can check with some
friends on the latest developments.




On 6/23/17, James Buller < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi
>
>
> I need to write a procurement request for computers to use for conducting
> accessibility audits and assistive technology testing or experience sessons.
>
> I'd like any advice on what to ask for and what to avoid.
>
>
> We'll need to be a local administrator to facilitate adding software and
> browser extensions as need arises..
>
> I'm thinking a Macbook to provide Voiceover and Safari, with Windows 7/10
> virtual machines including assistive technologies might work?
> Does that sound sensible or would we encounter problems such as performance
> or not detect certain things if not doing things directly on a PC?
> Any thoughts on versions of assistive technology to install and any
> conflicts to be aware of?
> My list, so far, partly based on software provided internally, is:
>
> * JAWS
> * Zoomtext
> * Supernova
> * NVDA
> * Dragon
> * Read&Write Gold
> * Claro Read
> * Magic
> * Lunar
> * Nib Clickless
> * Innovation
> * Work Pace
>
> Regards
>
> James Buller
>
>
>
>
> Please ensure that any communication with Home Office Digital is via an
> official account ending with digital.homeoffice.gov.uk or
> homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk. This email and any files transmitted with it are
> private and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom
> they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please return
> it to the address it came from telling them it is not for you and then
> delete it from your system. Communications via the digital.homeoffice.gov.uk
> domain may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal
> purposes. This email message has been swept for computer viruses.
> > > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: R.U. Steinberg
Date: Fri, Jun 23 2017 6:54AM
Subject: Re: Specifications for AT testing computers
← Previous message | Next message →

This is news to me about the Windows VM on Mac. I wasn't sure if one could
get screen readers to function properly this way. Does they work with
Parallel Desktop, too? Also regarding the keyboard, does it make any
difference if you use a generic PC keyboard instead of Mac keyboard?

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 7:20 AM Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> James
>
> If this is regular website testing I think your list is way too ambitious.
> For screen reader I would ensureNVDA with Firefox (NVDA with Chrome is
> also becoming impressively good).
> I don't really see the need for testing with Jaws, but it doesn't hurt
> (other than the wallet).
> For a screen magnifier I would just do Zoomtext, I wouldn't do multiple
> ones.
>
> Spot test with Dragon (speech recognition is cool) spot test more with
> Zoomtext (screen magnification and zooming is important t a lot o
> people), but do the most thorough testing with a screen reader (not
> because they matter most, but because testing with them reveals most
> of the semantic and ARIA issues).
>
> assistive technology support primarily requires coding to standards,
> and testing with each a.t./browser combination is both expensive, time
> consuming and requires expertise.
>
> Re running Windows VM on Macs, it works for the most part, though
> people often have difficulty making the ctrl key work properly on the
> VM. It may require significan key mapping. I can check with some
> friends on the latest developments.
>
>
>
>
> On 6/23/17, James Buller < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> >
> > I need to write a procurement request for computers to use for conducting
> > accessibility audits and assistive technology testing or experience
> sessons.
> >
> > I'd like any advice on what to ask for and what to avoid.
> >
> >
> > We'll need to be a local administrator to facilitate adding software and
> > browser extensions as need arises..
> >
> > I'm thinking a Macbook to provide Voiceover and Safari, with Windows 7/10
> > virtual machines including assistive technologies might work?
> > Does that sound sensible or would we encounter problems such as
> performance
> > or not detect certain things if not doing things directly on a PC?
> > Any thoughts on versions of assistive technology to install and any
> > conflicts to be aware of?
> > My list, so far, partly based on software provided internally, is:
> >
> > * JAWS
> > * Zoomtext
> > * Supernova
> > * NVDA
> > * Dragon
> > * Read&Write Gold
> > * Claro Read
> > * Magic
> > * Lunar
> > * Nib Clickless
> > * Innovation
> > * Work Pace
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > James Buller
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please ensure that any communication with Home Office Digital is via an
> > official account ending with digital.homeoffice.gov.uk or
> > homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk. This email and any files transmitted with it are
> > private and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to
> whom
> > they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please
> return
> > it to the address it came from telling them it is not for you and then
> > delete it from your system. Communications via the
> digital.homeoffice.gov.uk
> > domain may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal
> > purposes. This email message has been swept for computer viruses.
> > > > > > > > > >
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > >

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Fri, Jun 23 2017 7:08AM
Subject: Re: Specifications for AT testing computers
← Previous message | Next message →

External keyboard works better yes, it was one of the solutions.
Screen readers function fairly well on a Windows VM on a Mac.

On 6/23/17, R.U. Steinberg < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> This is news to me about the Windows VM on Mac. I wasn't sure if one could
> get screen readers to function properly this way. Does they work with
> Parallel Desktop, too? Also regarding the keyboard, does it make any
> difference if you use a generic PC keyboard instead of Mac keyboard?
>
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 7:20 AM Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> James
>>
>> If this is regular website testing I think your list is way too ambitious.
>> For screen reader I would ensureNVDA with Firefox (NVDA with Chrome is
>> also becoming impressively good).
>> I don't really see the need for testing with Jaws, but it doesn't hurt
>> (other than the wallet).
>> For a screen magnifier I would just do Zoomtext, I wouldn't do multiple
>> ones.
>>
>> Spot test with Dragon (speech recognition is cool) spot test more with
>> Zoomtext (screen magnification and zooming is important t a lot o
>> people), but do the most thorough testing with a screen reader (not
>> because they matter most, but because testing with them reveals most
>> of the semantic and ARIA issues).
>>
>> assistive technology support primarily requires coding to standards,
>> and testing with each a.t./browser combination is both expensive, time
>> consuming and requires expertise.
>>
>> Re running Windows VM on Macs, it works for the most part, though
>> people often have difficulty making the ctrl key work properly on the
>> VM. It may require significan key mapping. I can check with some
>> friends on the latest developments.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/23/17, James Buller < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> > Hi
>> >
>> >
>> > I need to write a procurement request for computers to use for
>> > conducting
>> > accessibility audits and assistive technology testing or experience
>> sessons.
>> >
>> > I'd like any advice on what to ask for and what to avoid.
>> >
>> >
>> > We'll need to be a local administrator to facilitate adding software and
>> > browser extensions as need arises..
>> >
>> > I'm thinking a Macbook to provide Voiceover and Safari, with Windows
>> > 7/10
>> > virtual machines including assistive technologies might work?
>> > Does that sound sensible or would we encounter problems such as
>> performance
>> > or not detect certain things if not doing things directly on a PC?
>> > Any thoughts on versions of assistive technology to install and any
>> > conflicts to be aware of?
>> > My list, so far, partly based on software provided internally, is:
>> >
>> > * JAWS
>> > * Zoomtext
>> > * Supernova
>> > * NVDA
>> > * Dragon
>> > * Read&Write Gold
>> > * Claro Read
>> > * Magic
>> > * Lunar
>> > * Nib Clickless
>> > * Innovation
>> > * Work Pace
>> >
>> > Regards
>> >
>> > James Buller
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Please ensure that any communication with Home Office Digital is via an
>> > official account ending with digital.homeoffice.gov.uk or
>> > homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk. This email and any files transmitted with it are
>> > private and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to
>> whom
>> > they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please
>> return
>> > it to the address it came from telling them it is not for you and then
>> > delete it from your system. Communications via the
>> digital.homeoffice.gov.uk
>> > domain may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal
>> > purposes. This email message has been swept for computer viruses.
>> > >> > >> > >> > >> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
>> >> >> >> >>
> > > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: JP Jamous
Date: Fri, Jun 23 2017 7:52AM
Subject: Re: Specifications for AT testing computers
← Previous message | Next message →

VMs on mac function well. If your Mac SSD is encrypted by a corporate encryption, it can cause some crashes. Just be aware of that.

I always prefer an external keyboard. A USB Windows/Mac keyboard will work just fine.

You can use the Mac keyboard, but you won't have the numeric keypad. I don't like that.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of R.U. Steinberg
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 7:55 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Specifications for AT testing computers

This is news to me about the Windows VM on Mac. I wasn't sure if one could get screen readers to function properly this way. Does they work with Parallel Desktop, too? Also regarding the keyboard, does it make any difference if you use a generic PC keyboard instead of Mac keyboard?

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 7:20 AM Birkir R. Gunnarsson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> James
>
> If this is regular website testing I think your list is way too ambitious.
> For screen reader I would ensureNVDA with Firefox (NVDA with Chrome is
> also becoming impressively good).
> I don't really see the need for testing with Jaws, but it doesn't hurt
> (other than the wallet).
> For a screen magnifier I would just do Zoomtext, I wouldn't do
> multiple ones.
>
> Spot test with Dragon (speech recognition is cool) spot test more with
> Zoomtext (screen magnification and zooming is important t a lot o
> people), but do the most thorough testing with a screen reader (not
> because they matter most, but because testing with them reveals most
> of the semantic and ARIA issues).
>
> assistive technology support primarily requires coding to standards,
> and testing with each a.t./browser combination is both expensive, time
> consuming and requires expertise.
>
> Re running Windows VM on Macs, it works for the most part, though
> people often have difficulty making the ctrl key work properly on the
> VM. It may require significan key mapping. I can check with some
> friends on the latest developments.
>
>
>
>
> On 6/23/17, James Buller < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> >
> > I need to write a procurement request for computers to use for
> > conducting accessibility audits and assistive technology testing or
> > experience
> sessons.
> >
> > I'd like any advice on what to ask for and what to avoid.
> >
> >
> > We'll need to be a local administrator to facilitate adding software
> > and browser extensions as need arises..
> >
> > I'm thinking a Macbook to provide Voiceover and Safari, with Windows
> > 7/10 virtual machines including assistive technologies might work?
> > Does that sound sensible or would we encounter problems such as
> performance
> > or not detect certain things if not doing things directly on a PC?
> > Any thoughts on versions of assistive technology to install and any
> > conflicts to be aware of?
> > My list, so far, partly based on software provided internally, is:
> >
> > * JAWS
> > * Zoomtext
> > * Supernova
> > * NVDA
> > * Dragon
> > * Read&Write Gold
> > * Claro Read
> > * Magic
> > * Lunar
> > * Nib Clickless
> > * Innovation
> > * Work Pace
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > James Buller
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please ensure that any communication with Home Office Digital is via
> > an official account ending with digital.homeoffice.gov.uk or
> > homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk. This email and any files transmitted with it
> > are private and intended solely for the use of the individual or
> > entity to
> whom
> > they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please
> return
> > it to the address it came from telling them it is not for you and
> > then delete it from your system. Communications via the
> digital.homeoffice.gov.uk
> > domain may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for
> > legal purposes. This email message has been swept for computer viruses.
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

From: JP Jamous
Date: Fri, Jun 23 2017 7:55AM
Subject: Re: Specifications for AT testing computers
← Previous message | Next message →

Parallel will allow you to map certain keys so they don't conflict with Windows. Those would have to be applied per VM and not universal.

Be careful with this preferences dialog box as it is not VO accessible. Some sighted help is necessary. Once the mapping is configured, you will have no key conflicts.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 7:21 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Specifications for AT testing computers

James

If this is regular website testing I think your list is way too ambitious.
For screen reader I would ensureNVDA with Firefox (NVDA with Chrome is also becoming impressively good).
I don't really see the need for testing with Jaws, but it doesn't hurt (other than the wallet).
For a screen magnifier I would just do Zoomtext, I wouldn't do multiple ones.

Spot test with Dragon (speech recognition is cool) spot test more with Zoomtext (screen magnification and zooming is important t a lot o people), but do the most thorough testing with a screen reader (not because they matter most, but because testing with them reveals most of the semantic and ARIA issues).

assistive technology support primarily requires coding to standards, and testing with each a.t./browser combination is both expensive, time consuming and requires expertise.

Re running Windows VM on Macs, it works for the most part, though people often have difficulty making the ctrl key work properly on the VM. It may require significan key mapping. I can check with some friends on the latest developments.




On 6/23/17, James Buller < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi
>
>
> I need to write a procurement request for computers to use for
> conducting accessibility audits and assistive technology testing or experience sessons.
>
> I'd like any advice on what to ask for and what to avoid.
>
>
> We'll need to be a local administrator to facilitate adding software
> and browser extensions as need arises..
>
> I'm thinking a Macbook to provide Voiceover and Safari, with Windows
> 7/10 virtual machines including assistive technologies might work?
> Does that sound sensible or would we encounter problems such as
> performance or not detect certain things if not doing things directly on a PC?
> Any thoughts on versions of assistive technology to install and any
> conflicts to be aware of?
> My list, so far, partly based on software provided internally, is:
>
> * JAWS
> * Zoomtext
> * Supernova
> * NVDA
> * Dragon
> * Read&Write Gold
> * Claro Read
> * Magic
> * Lunar
> * Nib Clickless
> * Innovation
> * Work Pace
>
> Regards
>
> James Buller
>
>
>
>
> Please ensure that any communication with Home Office Digital is via
> an official account ending with digital.homeoffice.gov.uk or
> homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk. This email and any files transmitted with it
> are private and intended solely for the use of the individual or
> entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in
> error please return it to the address it came from telling them it is
> not for you and then delete it from your system. Communications via
> the digital.homeoffice.gov.uk domain may be automatically logged,
> monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes. This email message has been swept for computer viruses.
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

From: James Buller
Date: Fri, Jun 23 2017 12:38PM
Subject: Re: Specifications for AT testing computers
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi


Thanks very much for the advice.

It seems like the risks relevant to me are encrypted SSD may cause crashes and the need to use an external keyboard.

If there are any other tips such as version numbers I'd love to hear them.

We need to have multiple screenreaders as they are available to our staff and we need to do compatibility testing and bug resolution as well as generic assurance of accessibility.

Regards
James

Please ensure that any communication with Home Office Digital is via an official account ending with digital.homeoffice.gov.uk or homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk. This email and any files transmitted with it are private and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please return it to the address it came from telling them it is not for you and then delete it from your system. Communications via the digital.homeoffice.gov.uk domain may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes. This email message has been swept for computer viruses.

From: Jonathan Cohn
Date: Sat, Jun 24 2017 1:49PM
Subject: Re: Specifications for AT testing computers
← Previous message | Next message →

So are you saying that JAWS now works in a Parallel VM running Windows 7? I had always heard there were significant problems with the JAWS cursor when using Parallel. All blind individuals whom I have discussed using VM on a Macintosh recommend either VM Fusion or Virtual Box.

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Jun 23, 2017, at 9:55 AM, JP Jamous < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Parallel will allow you to map certain keys so they don't conflict with Windows. Those would have to be applied per VM and not universal.
>
> Be careful with this preferences dialog box as it is not VO accessible. Some sighted help is necessary. Once the mapping is configured, you will have no key conflicts.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 7:21 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Specifications for AT testing computers
>
> James
>
> If this is regular website testing I think your list is way too ambitious.
> For screen reader I would ensureNVDA with Firefox (NVDA with Chrome is also becoming impressively good).
> I don't really see the need for testing with Jaws, but it doesn't hurt (other than the wallet).
> For a screen magnifier I would just do Zoomtext, I wouldn't do multiple ones.
>
> Spot test with Dragon (speech recognition is cool) spot test more with Zoomtext (screen magnification and zooming is important t a lot o people), but do the most thorough testing with a screen reader (not because they matter most, but because testing with them reveals most of the semantic and ARIA issues).
>
> assistive technology support primarily requires coding to standards, and testing with each a.t./browser combination is both expensive, time consuming and requires expertise.
>
> Re running Windows VM on Macs, it works for the most part, though people often have difficulty making the ctrl key work properly on the VM. It may require significan key mapping. I can check with some friends on the latest developments.
>
>
>
>
> On 6/23/17, James Buller < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>>
>> I need to write a procurement request for computers to use for
>> conducting accessibility audits and assistive technology testing or experience sessons.
>>
>> I'd like any advice on what to ask for and what to avoid.
>>
>>
>> We'll need to be a local administrator to facilitate adding software
>> and browser extensions as need arises..
>>
>> I'm thinking a Macbook to provide Voiceover and Safari, with Windows
>> 7/10 virtual machines including assistive technologies might work?
>> Does that sound sensible or would we encounter problems such as
>> performance or not detect certain things if not doing things directly on a PC?
>> Any thoughts on versions of assistive technology to install and any
>> conflicts to be aware of?
>> My list, so far, partly based on software provided internally, is:
>>
>> * JAWS
>> * Zoomtext
>> * Supernova
>> * NVDA
>> * Dragon
>> * Read&Write Gold
>> * Claro Read
>> * Magic
>> * Lunar
>> * Nib Clickless
>> * Innovation
>> * Work Pace
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> James Buller
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please ensure that any communication with Home Office Digital is via
>> an official account ending with digital.homeoffice.gov.uk or
>> homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk. This email and any files transmitted with it
>> are private and intended solely for the use of the individual or
>> entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in
>> error please return it to the address it came from telling them it is
>> not for you and then delete it from your system. Communications via
>> the digital.homeoffice.gov.uk domain may be automatically logged,
>> monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes. This email message has been swept for computer viruses.
>> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >>
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > >
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
>
> > > >

From: JP Jamous
Date: Sun, Jun 25 2017 8:47AM
Subject: Re: Specifications for AT testing computers
← Previous message | Next message →

It might work better with Virtual Box, but I tried it in my previous job using parallel and I used it successfully. Windows 7 with JAWS 17. I had no issues except frequent crashes. As I mentioned, I believe those were related to the heavy encryption of the actual SSD and VM itself.



-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 2:50 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Specifications for AT testing computers

So are you saying that JAWS now works in a Parallel VM running Windows 7? I had always heard there were significant problems with the JAWS cursor when using Parallel. All blind individuals whom I have discussed using VM on a Macintosh recommend either VM Fusion or Virtual Box.

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Jun 23, 2017, at 9:55 AM, JP Jamous < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Parallel will allow you to map certain keys so they don't conflict with Windows. Those would have to be applied per VM and not universal.
>
> Be careful with this preferences dialog box as it is not VO accessible. Some sighted help is necessary. Once the mapping is configured, you will have no key conflicts.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 7:21 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Specifications for AT testing computers
>
> James
>
> If this is regular website testing I think your list is way too ambitious.
> For screen reader I would ensureNVDA with Firefox (NVDA with Chrome is also becoming impressively good).
> I don't really see the need for testing with Jaws, but it doesn't hurt (other than the wallet).
> For a screen magnifier I would just do Zoomtext, I wouldn't do multiple ones.
>
> Spot test with Dragon (speech recognition is cool) spot test more with Zoomtext (screen magnification and zooming is important t a lot o people), but do the most thorough testing with a screen reader (not because they matter most, but because testing with them reveals most of the semantic and ARIA issues).
>
> assistive technology support primarily requires coding to standards, and testing with each a.t./browser combination is both expensive, time consuming and requires expertise.
>
> Re running Windows VM on Macs, it works for the most part, though people often have difficulty making the ctrl key work properly on the VM. It may require significan key mapping. I can check with some friends on the latest developments.
>
>
>
>
> On 6/23/17, James Buller < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>>
>> I need to write a procurement request for computers to use for
>> conducting accessibility audits and assistive technology testing or experience sessons.
>>
>> I'd like any advice on what to ask for and what to avoid.
>>
>>
>> We'll need to be a local administrator to facilitate adding software
>> and browser extensions as need arises..
>>
>> I'm thinking a Macbook to provide Voiceover and Safari, with Windows
>> 7/10 virtual machines including assistive technologies might work?
>> Does that sound sensible or would we encounter problems such as
>> performance or not detect certain things if not doing things directly on a PC?
>> Any thoughts on versions of assistive technology to install and any
>> conflicts to be aware of?
>> My list, so far, partly based on software provided internally, is:
>>
>> * JAWS
>> * Zoomtext
>> * Supernova
>> * NVDA
>> * Dragon
>> * Read&Write Gold
>> * Claro Read
>> * Magic
>> * Lunar
>> * Nib Clickless
>> * Innovation
>> * Work Pace
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> James Buller
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please ensure that any communication with Home Office Digital is via
>> an official account ending with digital.homeoffice.gov.uk or
>> homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk. This email and any files transmitted with it
>> are private and intended solely for the use of the individual or
>> entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in
>> error please return it to the address it came from telling them it is
>> not for you and then delete it from your system. Communications via
>> the digital.homeoffice.gov.uk domain may be automatically logged,
>> monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes. This email message has been swept for computer viruses.
>> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >>
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
>
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>

From: Dominic Capuano (gmail)
Date: Sun, Jun 25 2017 4:59PM
Subject: Re: Specifications for AT testing computers
← Previous message | Next message →

My 2 cents on this would be to avoid Macs altogether go Windows. Most of your users will probably be Windows users anyway.

If you must test on Mac buy a separate Mac just for that. You will save money by not fool around with virtual machines and key mapping when you do your Windows testing.

Dominic Capuano
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
(h)(401) 726-2551


-----Original Message-----
From: JP Jamous [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 10:48 AM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Specifications for AT testing computers

It might work better with Virtual Box, but I tried it in my previous job using parallel and I used it successfully. Windows 7 with JAWS 17. I had no issues except frequent crashes. As I mentioned, I believe those were related to the heavy encryption of the actual SSD and VM itself.



-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 2:50 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Specifications for AT testing computers

So are you saying that JAWS now works in a Parallel VM running Windows 7? I had always heard there were significant problems with the JAWS cursor when using Parallel. All blind individuals whom I have discussed using VM on a Macintosh recommend either VM Fusion or Virtual Box.

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Jun 23, 2017, at 9:55 AM, JP Jamous < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Parallel will allow you to map certain keys so they don't conflict with Windows. Those would have to be applied per VM and not universal.
>
> Be careful with this preferences dialog box as it is not VO accessible. Some sighted help is necessary. Once the mapping is configured, you will have no key conflicts.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 7:21 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Specifications for AT testing computers
>
> James
>
> If this is regular website testing I think your list is way too ambitious.
> For screen reader I would ensureNVDA with Firefox (NVDA with Chrome is also becoming impressively good).
> I don't really see the need for testing with Jaws, but it doesn't hurt (other than the wallet).
> For a screen magnifier I would just do Zoomtext, I wouldn't do multiple ones.
>
> Spot test with Dragon (speech recognition is cool) spot test more with Zoomtext (screen magnification and zooming is important t a lot o people), but do the most thorough testing with a screen reader (not because they matter most, but because testing with them reveals most of the semantic and ARIA issues).
>
> assistive technology support primarily requires coding to standards, and testing with each a.t./browser combination is both expensive, time consuming and requires expertise.
>
> Re running Windows VM on Macs, it works for the most part, though people often have difficulty making the ctrl key work properly on the VM. It may require significan key mapping. I can check with some friends on the latest developments.
>
>
>
>
> On 6/23/17, James Buller < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>>
>> I need to write a procurement request for computers to use for
>> conducting accessibility audits and assistive technology testing or experience sessons.
>>
>> I'd like any advice on what to ask for and what to avoid.
>>
>>
>> We'll need to be a local administrator to facilitate adding software
>> and browser extensions as need arises..
>>
>> I'm thinking a Macbook to provide Voiceover and Safari, with Windows
>> 7/10 virtual machines including assistive technologies might work?
>> Does that sound sensible or would we encounter problems such as
>> performance or not detect certain things if not doing things directly on a PC?
>> Any thoughts on versions of assistive technology to install and any
>> conflicts to be aware of?
>> My list, so far, partly based on software provided internally, is:
>>
>> * JAWS
>> * Zoomtext
>> * Supernova
>> * NVDA
>> * Dragon
>> * Read&Write Gold
>> * Claro Read
>> * Magic
>> * Lunar
>> * Nib Clickless
>> * Innovation
>> * Work Pace
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> James Buller
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please ensure that any communication with Home Office Digital is via
>> an official account ending with digital.homeoffice.gov.uk or
>> homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk. This email and any files transmitted with it
>> are private and intended solely for the use of the individual or
>> entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in
>> error please return it to the address it came from telling them it is
>> not for you and then delete it from your system. Communications via
>> the digital.homeoffice.gov.uk domain may be automatically logged,
>> monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes. This email message has been swept for computer viruses.
>> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >>
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
>
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>

From: Steve Green
Date: Tue, Jul 04 2017 1:37AM
Subject: Re: Specifications for AT testing computers
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi James,

Since you're working for a UK Government department, it's likely that the GDS Accessibility Guidelines will apply to your testing (in fact the GDS Service Standard probably applies to the entire project).

https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/helping-people-to-use-your-service/making-your-service-accessible-an-introduction

https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/service-standard

This contains a list of assistive technologies that you must test with, which includes Windows, macOS and iOS (but not Android for some reason). Don’t even think about running Windows in virtual machines - it's not the same as the real thing.

In fact I would recommend either buying several Windows machines (my preference if you've got the space) or install several SSD drives in one machine so you can have all the different assistive technologies on their own disk - you really don't want multiple screen readers on the same partition. We now build all our machines with 4 disks so we can rapidly boot into different screen readers and other assistive technologies.

Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Dominic Capuano (gmail)
Sent: 26 June 2017 00:00
To: 'JP Jamous' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Specifications for AT testing computers

My 2 cents on this would be to avoid Macs altogether go Windows. Most of your users will probably be Windows users anyway.

If you must test on Mac buy a separate Mac just for that. You will save money by not fool around with virtual machines and key mapping when you do your Windows testing.

Dominic Capuano
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
(h)(401) 726-2551


-----Original Message-----
From: JP Jamous [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 10:48 AM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Specifications for AT testing computers

It might work better with Virtual Box, but I tried it in my previous job using parallel and I used it successfully. Windows 7 with JAWS 17. I had no issues except frequent crashes. As I mentioned, I believe those were related to the heavy encryption of the actual SSD and VM itself.



-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2017 2:50 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Specifications for AT testing computers

So are you saying that JAWS now works in a Parallel VM running Windows 7? I had always heard there were significant problems with the JAWS cursor when using Parallel. All blind individuals whom I have discussed using VM on a Macintosh recommend either VM Fusion or Virtual Box.

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Jun 23, 2017, at 9:55 AM, JP Jamous < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Parallel will allow you to map certain keys so they don't conflict with Windows. Those would have to be applied per VM and not universal.
>
> Be careful with this preferences dialog box as it is not VO accessible. Some sighted help is necessary. Once the mapping is configured, you will have no key conflicts.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 7:21 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Specifications for AT testing computers
>
> James
>
> If this is regular website testing I think your list is way too ambitious.
> For screen reader I would ensureNVDA with Firefox (NVDA with Chrome is also becoming impressively good).
> I don't really see the need for testing with Jaws, but it doesn't hurt (other than the wallet).
> For a screen magnifier I would just do Zoomtext, I wouldn't do multiple ones.
>
> Spot test with Dragon (speech recognition is cool) spot test more with Zoomtext (screen magnification and zooming is important t a lot o people), but do the most thorough testing with a screen reader (not because they matter most, but because testing with them reveals most of the semantic and ARIA issues).
>
> assistive technology support primarily requires coding to standards, and testing with each a.t./browser combination is both expensive, time consuming and requires expertise.
>
> Re running Windows VM on Macs, it works for the most part, though people often have difficulty making the ctrl key work properly on the VM. It may require significan key mapping. I can check with some friends on the latest developments.
>
>
>
>
> On 6/23/17, James Buller < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>>
>> I need to write a procurement request for computers to use for
>> conducting accessibility audits and assistive technology testing or experience sessons.
>>
>> I'd like any advice on what to ask for and what to avoid.
>>
>>
>> We'll need to be a local administrator to facilitate adding software
>> and browser extensions as need arises..
>>
>> I'm thinking a Macbook to provide Voiceover and Safari, with Windows
>> 7/10 virtual machines including assistive technologies might work?
>> Does that sound sensible or would we encounter problems such as
>> performance or not detect certain things if not doing things directly on a PC?
>> Any thoughts on versions of assistive technology to install and any
>> conflicts to be aware of?
>> My list, so far, partly based on software provided internally, is:
>>
>> * JAWS
>> * Zoomtext
>> * Supernova
>> * NVDA
>> * Dragon
>> * Read&Write Gold
>> * Claro Read
>> * Magic
>> * Lunar
>> * Nib Clickless
>> * Innovation
>> * Work Pace
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> James Buller
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please ensure that any communication with Home Office Digital is via
>> an official account ending with digital.homeoffice.gov.uk or
>> homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk. This email and any files transmitted with it
>> are private and intended solely for the use of the individual or
>> entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in
>> error please return it to the address it came from telling them it is
>> not for you and then delete it from your system. Communications via
>> the digital.homeoffice.gov.uk domain may be automatically logged,
>> monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes. This email message has been swept for computer viruses.
>> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >>
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
>
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>

From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Tue, Jul 04 2017 10:17AM
Subject: Re: Specifications for AT testing computers
← Previous message | No next message

Thanks, Steve. Your recommendations for hardware and software configuration is spot on. The idea of different disks with different operating systems and assistive technologies is excellent.

As Steve, Dominic, and others have said, don't waste your time with VM (virtual machines) with assistive technologies. Software drivers are critical for assistive technologies to run correctly and running VMs can mess up the entire installation.

However, you can run Windows and assistive technologies on Macs through Apple Boot Camp, which isn't emulation/VM but a real separate Windows boot drive carved out of the Mac's hard drive. But that method does require a hard reboot to switch from one OS to the other.

--Bevi Chagnon

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Tuesday, July 4, 2017 3:38 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Specifications for AT testing computers

Hi James,

Since you're working for a UK Government department, it's likely that the GDS Accessibility Guidelines will apply to your testing (in fact the GDS Service Standard probably applies to the entire project).

https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/helping-people-to-use-your-service/making-your-service-accessible-an-introduction

https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/service-standard

This contains a list of assistive technologies that you must test with, which includes Windows, macOS and iOS (but not Android for some reason). Don’t even think about running Windows in virtual machines - it's not the same as the real thing.

In fact I would recommend either buying several Windows machines (my preference if you've got the space) or install several SSD drives in one machine so you can have all the different assistive technologies on their own disk - you really don't want multiple screen readers on the same partition. We now build all our machines with 4 disks so we can rapidly boot into different screen readers and other assistive technologies.

Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Dominic Capuano (gmail)
Sent: 26 June 2017 00:00
To: 'JP Jamous' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >; 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Specifications for AT testing computers

My 2 cents on this would be to avoid Macs altogether go Windows. Most of your users will probably be Windows users anyway.

If you must test on Mac buy a separate Mac just for that. You will save money by not fool around with virtual machines and key mapping when you do your Windows testing.

Dominic Capuano
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
(h)(401) 726-2551