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Thread: Skip to Main Content takes a user to a "blank line" above the h1 it's supposed to

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Number of posts in this thread: 8 (In chronological order)

From: Sarah Jevnikar
Date: Thu, Nov 23 2017 9:47AM
Subject: Skip to Main Content takes a user to a "blank line" above the h1 it's supposed to
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Hi everyone,
I've come across a challenge that Google is not helping me fix. Pages occasionally have skip to main content links that, when activated, take a user to a seemingly blank line above the heading that I would consider to be the main content. It appears the target is a region rather than the heading itself or the article containing it. Does this make any sense to anyone? Have you seen this before? It happens most with NVDA using Firefox, IE and Chrome. It happens sometimes with JAWS as well, but JAWS at least continue to read down the page so it's less noticeable.
Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Sarah

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Thu, Nov 23 2017 10:08AM
Subject: Re: Skip to Main Content takes a user to a "blank line" above the h1 it's supposed to
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On 23/11/2017 16:47, Sarah Jevnikar wrote:
> It appears the target is a region rather than the heading itself or the article containing it.

that sounds like expected behavior. You activate the skip, you jumped to
the start of the main content, then continue using readings keys or TAB
to move forward from there.

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke

www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: Steve Green
Date: Thu, Nov 23 2017 10:18AM
Subject: Re: Skip to Main Content takes a user to a "blank line" above the h1 it's supposed to
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I agree that it sounds like expected behaviour. Do you have any evidence that it's causing people difficulty?

Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Sarah Jevnikar
Sent: 23 November 2017 16:48
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Skip to Main Content takes a user to a "blank line" above the h1 it's supposed to

Hi everyone,
I've come across a challenge that Google is not helping me fix. Pages occasionally have skip to main content links that, when activated, take a user to a seemingly blank line above the heading that I would consider to be the main content. It appears the target is a region rather than the heading itself or the article containing it. Does this make any sense to anyone? Have you seen this before? It happens most with NVDA using Firefox, IE and Chrome. It happens sometimes with JAWS as well, but JAWS at least continue to read down the page so it's less noticeable.
Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Sarah

From: Sarah Jevnikar
Date: Thu, Nov 23 2017 12:17PM
Subject: Re: Skip to Main Content takes a user to a "blank line" above the h1 it's supposed to
← Previous message | Next message →

Trouble is that if reading stops, it's not clear where you've landed. If STMC's activated and all a user hears is "blank", it doesn't provide much clarity.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke
Sent: November 23, 2017 12:09 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Skip to Main Content takes a user to a "blank line" above the h1 it's supposed to

On 23/11/2017 16:47, Sarah Jevnikar wrote:
> It appears the target is a region rather than the heading itself or the article containing it.

that sounds like expected behavior. You activate the skip, you jumped to the start of the main content, then continue using readings keys or TAB to move forward from there.

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke

www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: Steve Green
Date: Thu, Nov 23 2017 12:45PM
Subject: Re: Skip to Main Content takes a user to a "blank line" above the h1 it's supposed to
← Previous message | Next message →

That doesn't sound like a problem to me - they will hear the heading when they navigate downwards. The only way to be absolutely sure is to do some user testing, but personally I would focus my resources on more important issues.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Sarah Jevnikar
Sent: 23 November 2017 19:18
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Skip to Main Content takes a user to a "blank line" above the h1 it's supposed to

Trouble is that if reading stops, it's not clear where you've landed. If STMC's activated and all a user hears is "blank", it doesn't provide much clarity.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke
Sent: November 23, 2017 12:09 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Skip to Main Content takes a user to a "blank line" above the h1 it's supposed to

On 23/11/2017 16:47, Sarah Jevnikar wrote:
> It appears the target is a region rather than the heading itself or the article containing it.

that sounds like expected behavior. You activate the skip, you jumped to the start of the main content, then continue using readings keys or TAB to move forward from there.

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke

www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: Peter Quale
Date: Thu, Nov 23 2017 12:57PM
Subject: Re: Skip to Main Content takes a user to a "blank line" above the h1 it's supposed to
← Previous message | Next message →

Depends what OS you're using too. Mac users, in particular, might not
actually focus but the keyboard users will see the page scroll. For
keyboard, if the next tab stop lands on the appropriate link or button in
the page, then it's fine. With NVDA, I'd hope to find the <h1> right away
or maybe after a single press on h or the down-arrow.



On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 1:45 PM, Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> wrote:

> That doesn't sound like a problem to me - they will hear the heading when
> they navigate downwards. The only way to be absolutely sure is to do some
> user testing, but personally I would focus my resources on more important
> issues.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Sarah Jevnikar
> Sent: 23 November 2017 19:18
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Skip to Main Content takes a user to a "blank line"
> above the h1 it's supposed to
>
> Trouble is that if reading stops, it's not clear where you've landed. If
> STMC's activated and all a user hears is "blank", it doesn't provide much
> clarity.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke
> Sent: November 23, 2017 12:09 PM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Skip to Main Content takes a user to a "blank line"
> above the h1 it's supposed to
>
> On 23/11/2017 16:47, Sarah Jevnikar wrote:
> > It appears the target is a region rather than the heading itself or the
> article containing it.
>
> that sounds like expected behavior. You activate the skip, you jumped to
> the start of the main content, then continue using readings keys or TAB to
> move forward from there.
>
> P
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
>
> www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >



--
*Peter Quale*
Google Voice: (707) 992-5696

From: Sarah Jevnikar
Date: Thu, Nov 23 2017 2:46PM
Subject: Re: Skip to Main Content takes a user to a "blank line" above the h1 it's supposed to
← Previous message | Next message →

@Peter - I've used the handy down-arrow press, but should it really be necessary? Is there any recourse?

@Steve: I am the user testing, and though it's not a huge issue for me as an experienced computer user, I can see it being a concern for more novice users.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Peter Quale
Sent: November 23, 2017 2:57 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Skip to Main Content takes a user to a "blank line" above the h1 it's supposed to

Depends what OS you're using too. Mac users, in particular, might not actually focus but the keyboard users will see the page scroll. For keyboard, if the next tab stop lands on the appropriate link or button in the page, then it's fine. With NVDA, I'd hope to find the <h1> right away or maybe after a single press on h or the down-arrow.



On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 1:45 PM, Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> wrote:

> That doesn't sound like a problem to me - they will hear the heading
> when they navigate downwards. The only way to be absolutely sure is to
> do some user testing, but personally I would focus my resources on
> more important issues.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Sarah Jevnikar
> Sent: 23 November 2017 19:18
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Skip to Main Content takes a user to a "blank line"
> above the h1 it's supposed to
>
> Trouble is that if reading stops, it's not clear where you've landed.
> If STMC's activated and all a user hears is "blank", it doesn't
> provide much clarity.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke
> Sent: November 23, 2017 12:09 PM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Skip to Main Content takes a user to a "blank line"
> above the h1 it's supposed to
>
> On 23/11/2017 16:47, Sarah Jevnikar wrote:
> > It appears the target is a region rather than the heading itself or
> > the
> article containing it.
>
> that sounds like expected behavior. You activate the skip, you jumped
> to the start of the main content, then continue using readings keys or
> TAB to move forward from there.
>
> P
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
>
> www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >



--
*Peter Quale*
Google Voice: (707) 992-5696

From: Jonathan Cohn
Date: Fri, Nov 24 2017 9:24AM
Subject: Re: Skip to Main Content takes a user to a "blank line" above the h1 it's supposed to
← Previous message | No next message

In our applications usually the JAWS will read most of the content in a region if the tab index is set to the region. Is the location that the focus is being set to a point within the region or just the region itself?


Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Nov 23, 2017, at 4:46 PM, Sarah Jevnikar < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> @Peter - I've used the handy down-arrow press, but should it really be necessary? Is there any recourse?
>
> @Steve: I am the user testing, and though it's not a huge issue for me as an experienced computer user, I can see it being a concern for more novice users.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Peter Quale
> Sent: November 23, 2017 2:57 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Skip to Main Content takes a user to a "blank line" above the h1 it's supposed to
>
> Depends what OS you're using too. Mac users, in particular, might not actually focus but the keyboard users will see the page scroll. For keyboard, if the next tab stop lands on the appropriate link or button in the page, then it's fine. With NVDA, I'd hope to find the <h1> right away or maybe after a single press on h or the down-arrow.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 1:45 PM, Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> wrote:
>
>> That doesn't sound like a problem to me - they will hear the heading
>> when they navigate downwards. The only way to be absolutely sure is to
>> do some user testing, but personally I would focus my resources on
>> more important issues.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
>> Behalf Of Sarah Jevnikar
>> Sent: 23 November 2017 19:18
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Skip to Main Content takes a user to a "blank line"
>> above the h1 it's supposed to
>>
>> Trouble is that if reading stops, it's not clear where you've landed.
>> If STMC's activated and all a user hears is "blank", it doesn't
>> provide much clarity.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
>> Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke
>> Sent: November 23, 2017 12:09 PM
>> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Skip to Main Content takes a user to a "blank line"
>> above the h1 it's supposed to
>>
>> On 23/11/2017 16:47, Sarah Jevnikar wrote:
>>> It appears the target is a region rather than the heading itself or
>>> the
>> article containing it.
>>
>> that sounds like expected behavior. You activate the skip, you jumped
>> to the start of the main content, then continue using readings keys or
>> TAB to move forward from there.
>>
>> P
>> --
>> Patrick H. Lauke
>>
>> www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
>> http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
>> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
>> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >>
>
>
>
> --
> *Peter Quale*
> Google Voice: (707) 992-5696
> > > > > > >