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Thread: Jaws dropping the ball on ARIA landmarks?

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Number of posts in this thread: 6 (In chronological order)

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Tue, May 29 2018 9:47AM
Subject: Jaws dropping the ball on ARIA landmarks?
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I recently upgraded to Jaws 2018 and noticed that most ARIA landmarks,
including the banner, contentinfo and region and complementary
landmarks, with or without an accessible name) , are now ignored.
I am seeing this in IE, Chrome and Firefox.
I will create an issue for this as a Beta Tester and in the Jaws web
compatibility bug tracker, but I think this is a large enough concern
that I should post it here for awareness and feedback.
One of my favorite Jaws features has been its handling of landmark
regions, announcing their beginning and end when pages are explored in
browse mode, enabling users to jump past them with the > key.
But in Jaws 2018 only the main region shows upin browse mode. Other
regions are available in the regions sortcut jawsKey-alt-r but are not
displayed in bows mode, including the banner and contentinfo.
This is a vastly inferior experience as the boundries of those regions
are not properly communicated this way, only the start, plus the
shortcut is not intuitive.

This makes landmark regions a lot less useful as a Jaws user navigation aid.
I know landmarks are amuch under utilized navigation aid for screen
reader users (I am concerned by this as they are much more consistent
than headers on wellformed pages and are an easy consistency indicator
to code (landmark region roles can generally be added to templates).

Whatever the reason, I think removing support for landmarks is not the
way to go.
I am hoping this is a bug, though I don't understand why such a bug
was not noticed and filed earlier. If it is a conscious decision I
think it needs to prompt a larger discussion of the purpose of
landmarks in general.

--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Tue, May 29 2018 9:56AM
Subject: Re: Jaws dropping the ball on ARIA landmarks?
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Hi Birkir, this is the new web verbosity setting which is set to medium by default. These landmarks are only announced in the highest value.

Jonathan

Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
Level Access
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
703.637.8957 office

Visit us online:
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The information contained in this transmission may be attorney privileged and/or confidential information intended for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 11:48 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: [WebAIM] Jaws dropping the ball on ARIA landmarks?

I recently upgraded to Jaws 2018 and noticed that most ARIA landmarks,
including the banner, contentinfo and region and complementary
landmarks, with or without an accessible name) , are now ignored.
I am seeing this in IE, Chrome and Firefox.
I will create an issue for this as a Beta Tester and in the Jaws web
compatibility bug tracker, but I think this is a large enough concern
that I should post it here for awareness and feedback.
One of my favorite Jaws features has been its handling of landmark
regions, announcing their beginning and end when pages are explored in
browse mode, enabling users to jump past them with the > key.
But in Jaws 2018 only the main region shows upin browse mode. Other
regions are available in the regions sortcut jawsKey-alt-r but are not
displayed in bows mode, including the banner and contentinfo.
This is a vastly inferior experience as the boundries of those regions
are not properly communicated this way, only the start, plus the
shortcut is not intuitive.

This makes landmark regions a lot less useful as a Jaws user navigation aid.
I know landmarks are amuch under utilized navigation aid for screen
reader users (I am concerned by this as they are much more consistent
than headers on wellformed pages and are an easy consistency indicator
to code (landmark region roles can generally be added to templates).

Whatever the reason, I think removing support for landmarks is not the
way to go.
I am hoping this is a bug, though I don't understand why such a bug
was not noticed and filed earlier. If it is a conscious decision I
think it needs to prompt a larger discussion of the purpose of
landmarks in general.

--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Tue, May 29 2018 10:21AM
Subject: Re: Jaws dropping the ball on ARIA landmarks?
← Previous message | Next message →

Aah, thanks Jonathan! I was not aware of this setting.
Incidentally, navigation landmarks are announced in this setting as
well (in addition to the main landmark) but nothing else.
I believe the header and footer landmarks should always be announced,
regardless of setting, but I can see the argument for other landmark
region types.



On 5/29/18, Jonathan Avila < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi Birkir, this is the new web verbosity setting which is set to medium by
> default. These landmarks are only announced in the highest value.
>
> Jonathan
>
> Jonathan Avila
> Chief Accessibility Officer
> Level Access
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> 703.637.8957 office
>
> Visit us online:
> Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog
>
> Looking to boost your accessibility knowledge? Check out our free webinars!
>
> The information contained in this transmission may be attorney privileged
> and/or confidential information intended for the use of the individual or
> entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution
> or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 11:48 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: [WebAIM] Jaws dropping the ball on ARIA landmarks?
>
> I recently upgraded to Jaws 2018 and noticed that most ARIA landmarks,
> including the banner, contentinfo and region and complementary
> landmarks, with or without an accessible name) , are now ignored.
> I am seeing this in IE, Chrome and Firefox.
> I will create an issue for this as a Beta Tester and in the Jaws web
> compatibility bug tracker, but I think this is a large enough concern
> that I should post it here for awareness and feedback.
> One of my favorite Jaws features has been its handling of landmark
> regions, announcing their beginning and end when pages are explored in
> browse mode, enabling users to jump past them with the > key.
> But in Jaws 2018 only the main region shows upin browse mode. Other
> regions are available in the regions sortcut jawsKey-alt-r but are not
> displayed in bows mode, including the banner and contentinfo.
> This is a vastly inferior experience as the boundries of those regions
> are not properly communicated this way, only the start, plus the
> shortcut is not intuitive.
>
> This makes landmark regions a lot less useful as a Jaws user navigation
> aid.
> I know landmarks are amuch under utilized navigation aid for screen
> reader users (I am concerned by this as they are much more consistent
> than headers on wellformed pages and are an easy consistency indicator
> to code (landmark region roles can generally be added to templates).
>
> Whatever the reason, I think removing support for landmarks is not the
> way to go.
> I am hoping this is a bug, though I don't understand why such a bug
> was not noticed and filed earlier. If it is a conscious decision I
> think it needs to prompt a larger discussion of the purpose of
> landmarks in general.
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > > > > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: Bryan Garaventa
Date: Tue, May 29 2018 10:46AM
Subject: Re: Jaws dropping the ball on ARIA landmarks?
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi,
There is an open issue about this at
https://github.com/FreedomScientific/VFO-standards-support/issues/57


Bryan Garaventa
Accessibility Fellow
Level Access, Inc.
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
415.624.2709 (o)
www.LevelAccess.com

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 9:22 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Jaws dropping the ball on ARIA landmarks?

Aah, thanks Jonathan! I was not aware of this setting.
Incidentally, navigation landmarks are announced in this setting as well (in addition to the main landmark) but nothing else.
I believe the header and footer landmarks should always be announced, regardless of setting, but I can see the argument for other landmark region types.



On 5/29/18, Jonathan Avila < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi Birkir, this is the new web verbosity setting which is set to
> medium by default. These landmarks are only announced in the highest value.
>
> Jonathan
>
> Jonathan Avila
> Chief Accessibility Officer
> Level Access
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> 703.637.8957 office
>
> Visit us online:
> Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog
>
> Looking to boost your accessibility knowledge? Check out our free webinars!
>
> The information contained in this transmission may be attorney
> privileged and/or confidential information intended for the use of the
> individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not
> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use,
> dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 11:48 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: [WebAIM] Jaws dropping the ball on ARIA landmarks?
>
> I recently upgraded to Jaws 2018 and noticed that most ARIA landmarks,
> including the banner, contentinfo and region and complementary
> landmarks, with or without an accessible name) , are now ignored.
> I am seeing this in IE, Chrome and Firefox.
> I will create an issue for this as a Beta Tester and in the Jaws web
> compatibility bug tracker, but I think this is a large enough concern
> that I should post it here for awareness and feedback.
> One of my favorite Jaws features has been its handling of landmark
> regions, announcing their beginning and end when pages are explored in
> browse mode, enabling users to jump past them with the > key.
> But in Jaws 2018 only the main region shows upin browse mode. Other
> regions are available in the regions sortcut jawsKey-alt-r but are not
> displayed in bows mode, including the banner and contentinfo.
> This is a vastly inferior experience as the boundries of those regions
> are not properly communicated this way, only the start, plus the
> shortcut is not intuitive.
>
> This makes landmark regions a lot less useful as a Jaws user
> navigation aid.
> I know landmarks are amuch under utilized navigation aid for screen
> reader users (I am concerned by this as they are much more consistent
> than headers on wellformed pages and are an easy consistency indicator
> to code (landmark region roles can generally be added to templates).
>
> Whatever the reason, I think removing support for landmarks is not the
> way to go.
> I am hoping this is a bug, though I don't understand why such a bug
> was not noticed and filed earlier. If it is a conscious decision I
> think it needs to prompt a larger discussion of the purpose of
> landmarks in general.
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Tue, May 29 2018 10:56AM
Subject: Re: Jaws dropping the ball on ARIA landmarks?
← Previous message | Next message →

Thanks Bryan

I'll sign in and add my comments later today.
I agree with the discussion that alllandmarks whose name has been
explicitly set by the author should be exposed by default and I will
add that the banner andcontentinfo regions of the page should also be
exposed in that setting, regardless whether the role is explicitly
added or inherited from HTML5 (<header> and <footer>).
I see room for configuration for unlabeled nested landmark regions,
e.g. articles sections, complementary regions an general purpose
regions landmarks with no accessible name.



On 5/29/18, Bryan Garaventa < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi,
> There is an open issue about this at
> https://github.com/FreedomScientific/VFO-standards-support/issues/57
>
>
> Bryan Garaventa
> Accessibility Fellow
> Level Access, Inc.
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> 415.624.2709 (o)
> www.LevelAccess.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Birkir R. Gunnarsson
> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 9:22 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Jaws dropping the ball on ARIA landmarks?
>
> Aah, thanks Jonathan! I was not aware of this setting.
> Incidentally, navigation landmarks are announced in this setting as well (in
> addition to the main landmark) but nothing else.
> I believe the header and footer landmarks should always be announced,
> regardless of setting, but I can see the argument for other landmark region
> types.
>
>
>
> On 5/29/18, Jonathan Avila < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> Hi Birkir, this is the new web verbosity setting which is set to
>> medium by default. These landmarks are only announced in the highest
>> value.
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>> Jonathan Avila
>> Chief Accessibility Officer
>> Level Access
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> 703.637.8957 office
>>
>> Visit us online:
>> Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog
>>
>> Looking to boost your accessibility knowledge? Check out our free
>> webinars!
>>
>> The information contained in this transmission may be attorney
>> privileged and/or confidential information intended for the use of the
>> individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not
>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use,
>> dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly
>> prohibited.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
>> Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 11:48 AM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>> Subject: [WebAIM] Jaws dropping the ball on ARIA landmarks?
>>
>> I recently upgraded to Jaws 2018 and noticed that most ARIA landmarks,
>> including the banner, contentinfo and region and complementary
>> landmarks, with or without an accessible name) , are now ignored.
>> I am seeing this in IE, Chrome and Firefox.
>> I will create an issue for this as a Beta Tester and in the Jaws web
>> compatibility bug tracker, but I think this is a large enough concern
>> that I should post it here for awareness and feedback.
>> One of my favorite Jaws features has been its handling of landmark
>> regions, announcing their beginning and end when pages are explored in
>> browse mode, enabling users to jump past them with the > key.
>> But in Jaws 2018 only the main region shows upin browse mode. Other
>> regions are available in the regions sortcut jawsKey-alt-r but are not
>> displayed in bows mode, including the banner and contentinfo.
>> This is a vastly inferior experience as the boundries of those regions
>> are not properly communicated this way, only the start, plus the
>> shortcut is not intuitive.
>>
>> This makes landmark regions a lot less useful as a Jaws user
>> navigation aid.
>> I know landmarks are amuch under utilized navigation aid for screen
>> reader users (I am concerned by this as they are much more consistent
>> than headers on wellformed pages and are an easy consistency indicator
>> to code (landmark region roles can generally be added to templates).
>>
>> Whatever the reason, I think removing support for landmarks is not the
>> way to go.
>> I am hoping this is a bug, though I don't understand why such a bug
>> was not noticed and filed earlier. If it is a conscious decision I
>> think it needs to prompt a larger discussion of the purpose of
>> landmarks in general.
>>
>> --
>> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
>> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >>
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: glen walker
Date: Tue, May 29 2018 1:30PM
Subject: Re: Jaws dropping the ball on ARIA landmarks?
← Previous message | No next message

While waiting for the resolution of this issue, instead of setting your
verbosity to high, you can configure your medium verbosity to include
landmarks. The default four landmarks at medium verbosity are:

1. application
2. article
3. main
4. navigation

Glen