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Thread: click here?

Number of posts in this thread: 13 (In chronological order)

From: Cheryl Kirkpatrick
Date: Tue, Sep 04 2001 8:20AM
Subject: click here?
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From: Michael R. Burks
Date: Tue, Sep 04 2001 8:35AM
Subject: RE: click here?
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I would think your best bet would www.useit.com
Sincerely,
Mike Burks
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]On Behalf Of
Cheryl Kirkpatrick
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 10:17 AM
To: WebAIM forum
Subject: click here?

I am looking for references that will help me build a case for using
descriptive text for links instead of "click here for .....". I have
several references within the accessibility literature but I was
wondering if anyone can direct me to general web design books or
articles that discourages the use of "click here".
Thanks!
--
Cheryl Kirkpatrick
Web Administrator/
Information Technology Librarian
South Carolina State Library
http://www.state.sc.us/scsl/
Telephone: 803.734.5831

From: Johanna Frohm
Date: Tue, Sep 04 2001 8:56AM
Subject: Re: click here?
← Previous message | Next message →

Cheryl,
Cheryl Kirkpatrick wrote:
>
> I am looking for references that will help me build a case for using
> descriptive text for links instead of "click here for .....". I have
> several references within the accessibility literature but I was
> wondering if anyone can direct me to general web design books or
> articles that discourages the use of "click here".
I have made the point in demonstrations by using Opera and IBM Home Page
Reader and their respective feature to show a list of links on a web
page out of context. From the keyboard, in Opera use Ctrl + J and in IBM
Home Page Reader use Ctrl + L. If a person is using an image as a
hyperlink, but it doesn't have an ALT tag, only the URL is displayed. I
have found this demonstration worthwhile in discouaging the use of
"click here" and to encourage the use of ALT tag, especially if the
image is a hyperlink.
I realize this is not a reference to a book or an article, but could a
screen capture of such a list out of context help?

Johanna

From: Prof Norm Coombs
Date: Tue, Sep 04 2001 8:59PM
Subject: Re: click here?
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Below is a copy of the Web Accessibility Initiative's quick tips saying "do
not use click here"!!

WAI Quick Tips Reference Card - Final version

Quick tips to make accessible Web sites
FOR COMPLETE GUIDELINES & CHECKLIST: WWW.W3.ORG/WAI
1. Images & animations. Use the alt attribute to describe the function of
all
visuals.
2. Image maps. Use client-side MAP and text for hotspots.
3. Multimedia. Provide captioning and transcripts of audio, descriptions of
video, and accessible versions in case inaccessible formats are used.
4. Hypertext links. Use text that makes sense when read out of context. For
instance, do not use "click here."
5. Page organization. Use headings, lists, and consistent structure. Use CSS
for layout and style where possible.
6. Graphs & charts. Summarize or use the longdesc attribute.
7. Scripts, applets, & plug-ins. Provide alternative content in case active
features are inaccessible or unsupported.
8. Frames. Label with the title or name attribute.
9. Tables. Make line by line reading sensible. Summarize. Avoid using tables
for column layout.
10. Check your work. Validate the HTML. Use evaluation tools and text-only
browsers to verify accessibility.

At 10:16 AM 9/4/01 -0400, you wrote:
>I am looking for references that will help me build a case for using
>descriptive text for links instead of "click here for .....". I have
>several references within the accessibility literature but I was
>wondering if anyone can direct me to general web design books or
>articles that discourages the use of "click here".
>
>Thanks!
>
>--
>Cheryl Kirkpatrick
>Web Administrator/
>Information Technology Librarian
>South Carolina State Library
>http://www.state.sc.us/scsl/
>Telephone: 803.734.5831
>
>
>
>

From: Kitzzy Aviles
Date: Tue, Sep 04 2001 9:29AM
Subject: Re: click here?
← Previous message | Next message →

Just to clarify ...
If for example, I have the words "Click here to view map" as a link instead of the same phrase with just the words "Click Here" linked is that as bad? Or should that also be avoided?

Kitzzy Aviles
Specialist, Techranger Development & Training
Course Development & Web Services
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = 09/04/01 10:47AM >>>
Below is a copy of the Web Accessibility Initiative's quick tips saying "do
not use click here"!!

WAI Quick Tips Reference Card - Final version

Quick tips to make accessible Web sites
FOR COMPLETE GUIDELINES & CHECKLIST: WWW.W3.ORG/WAI
1. Images & animations. Use the alt attribute to describe the function of
all
visuals.
2. Image maps. Use client-side MAP and text for hotspots.
3. Multimedia. Provide captioning and transcripts of audio, descriptions of
video, and accessible versions in case inaccessible formats are used.
4. Hypertext links. Use text that makes sense when read out of context. For
instance, do not use "click here."
5. Page organization. Use headings, lists, and consistent structure. Use CSS
for layout and style where possible.
6. Graphs & charts. Summarize or use the longdesc attribute.
7. Scripts, applets, & plug-ins. Provide alternative content in case active
features are inaccessible or unsupported.
8. Frames. Label with the title or name attribute.
9. Tables. Make line by line reading sensible. Summarize. Avoid using tables
for column layout.
10. Check your work. Validate the HTML. Use evaluation tools and text-only
browsers to verify accessibility.

At 10:16 AM 9/4/01 -0400, you wrote:
>I am looking for references that will help me build a case for using
>descriptive text for links instead of "click here for .....". I have
>several references within the accessibility literature but I was
>wondering if anyone can direct me to general web design books or
>articles that discourages the use of "click here".
>
>Thanks!
>
>--
>Cheryl Kirkpatrick
>Web Administrator/
>Information Technology Librarian
>South Carolina State Library
>http://www.state.sc.us/scsl/
>Telephone: 803.734.5831
>
>
>
>

From: Jo Miller
Date: Tue, Sep 04 2001 9:43AM
Subject: Re: click here?
← Previous message | Next message →

"View map" would be sufficient and preferable, in my opinion. The
words "click here" are not necessary, and in any case it is wise to
avoid device-specific language (remember, there are many devices that
people can use to browse the web, and not everyone follows links by
"clicking" with a mouse).
At 11:25 -0400 9/4/01, Kitzzy Aviles wrote:
>Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
>Content-Description: HTML
>
>Just to clarify ...
>If for example, I have the words "Click here to view map" as a link
>instead of the same phrase with just the words "Click Here" linked
>is that as bad? Or should that also be avoided?
>
>
>Kitzzy Aviles
>Specialist, Techranger Development & Training
>Course Development & Web Services
><mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
--
Jo Miller
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

From: Michael R. Burks
Date: Tue, Sep 04 2001 9:45AM
Subject: Re: click here?
← Previous message | Next message →

I would say it is okay, especially if it is an alt tag on a picture....but that is only my opinion

Sincerely,

Miike Burks
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]On Behalf Of Kitzzy Aviles
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 11:25 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: click here?

Just to clarify ...
If for example, I have the words "Click here to view map" as a link instead of the same phrase with just the words "Click Here" linked is that as bad? Or should that also be avoided?

Kitzzy Aviles
Specialist, Techranger Development & Training
Course Development & Web Services
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = 09/04/01 10:47AM >>>
Below is a copy of the Web Accessibility Initiative's quick tips saying "do
not use click here"!!

WAI Quick Tips Reference Card - Final version

Quick tips to make accessible Web sites
FOR COMPLETE GUIDELINES & CHECKLIST: WWW.W3.ORG/WAI
1. Images & animations. Use the alt attribute to describe the function of
all
visuals.
2. Image maps. Use client-side MAP and text for hotspots.
3. Multimedia. Provide captioning and transcripts of audio, descriptions of
video, and accessible versions in case inaccessible formats are used.
4. Hypertext links. Use text that makes sense when read out of context. For
instance, do not use "click here."
5. Page organization. Use headings, lists, and consistent structure. Use CSS
for layout and style where possible.
6. Graphs & charts. Summarize or use the longdesc attribute.
7. Scripts, applets, & plug-ins. Provide alternative content in case active
features are inaccessible or unsupported.
8. Frames. Label with the title or name attribute.
9. Tables. Make line by line reading sensible. Summarize. Avoid using tables
for column layout.
10. Check your work. Validate the HTML. Use evaluation tools and text-only
browsers to verify accessibility.

At 10:16 AM 9/4/01 -0400, you wrote:
>I am looking for references that will help me build a case for using
>descriptive text for links instead of "click here for .....". I have
>several references within the accessibility literature but I was
>wondering if anyone can direct me to general web design books or
>articles that discourages the use of "click here".
>
>Thanks!
>
>--
>Cheryl Kirkpatrick
>Web Administrator/
>Information Technology Librarian
>South Carolina State Library
>http://www.state.sc.us/scsl/
>Telephone: 803.734.5831
>
>
>
>

From: Tim Harshburger
Date: Tue, Sep 04 2001 10:05AM
Subject: RE: click here?
← Previous message | Next message →

I would shorten "Click Here to View Map" to just "View Map."

"Click Here" is device specific terminology, since a link can be activated multiple ways (besides using a mouse) I would tend to stay away from device specific terminology. Also, phrases like "Click Here to..." or "Link to..." seem to be used to indicate a link. All the interfaces I know of already do that, whether it is by underlining the links or saying the word "link" prior to speaking the text of the link. I know especially for people using screen readers it is important to make the text as brief and to the point as possible. Navigating a site by ear relies heavily upon memory. The more verbose the pages are, the more likely I am to forget something important and have to start reading the page all over again.

While "Click Here to View Map" does not erect a barrier that prevents people from using a site, it can make it more difficult to use under certain circumstances.

Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 10:35 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: RE: click here?

I would say it is okay, especially if it is an alt tag on a picture....but that is only my opinion

Sincerely,

Miike Burks
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]On Behalf Of Kitzzy Aviles
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 11:25 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: click here?

Just to clarify ...
If for example, I have the words "Click here to view map" as a link instead of the same phrase with just the words "Click Here" linked is that as bad? Or should that also be avoided?

Kitzzy Aviles
Specialist, Techranger Development & Training
Course Development & Web Services
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = 09/04/01 10:47AM >>>
Below is a copy of the Web Accessibility Initiative's quick tips saying "do
not use click here"!!

WAI Quick Tips Reference Card - Final version

Quick tips to make accessible Web sites
FOR COMPLETE GUIDELINES & CHECKLIST: WWW.W3.ORG/WAI
1. Images & animations. Use the alt attribute to describe the function of
all
visuals.
2. Image maps. Use client-side MAP and text for hotspots.
3. Multimedia. Provide captioning and transcripts of audio, descriptions of
video, and accessible versions in case inaccessible formats are used.
4. Hypertext links. Use text that makes sense when read out of context. For
instance, do not use "click here."
5. Page organization. Use headings, lists, and consistent structure. Use CSS
for layout and style where possible.
6. Graphs & charts. Summarize or use the longdesc attribute.
7. Scripts, applets, & plug-ins. Provide alternative content in case active
features are inaccessible or unsupported.
8. Frames. Label with the title or name attribute.
9. Tables. Make line by line reading sensible. Summarize. Avoid using tables
for column layout.
10. Check your work. Validate the HTML. Use evaluation tools and text-only
browsers to verify accessibility.

At 10:16 AM 9/4/01 -0400, you wrote:
>I am looking for references that will help me build a case for using
>descriptive text for links instead of "click here for .....". I have
>several references within the accessibility literature but I was
>wondering if anyone can direct me to general web design books or
>articles that discourages the use of "click here".
>
>Thanks!
>
>--
>Cheryl Kirkpatrick
>Web Administrator/
>Information Technology Librarian
>South Carolina State Library
>http://www.state.sc.us/scsl/
>Telephone: 803.734.5831
>
>
>
>

From: Kynn Bartlett
Date: Tue, Sep 04 2001 10:07AM
Subject: Re: click here?
← Previous message | Next message →

At 08:39 AM 9/4/2001 , Jo Miller wrote:
>"View map" would be sufficient and preferable, in my opinion. The words "click here" are not necessary, and in any case it is wise to avoid device-specific language (remember, there are many devices that people can use to browse the web, and not everyone follows links by "clicking" with a mouse).
I agree that "click here" isn't good for hypertext reasons, but I
am very very very worried about the idea that it's somehow an
accessibility problem because "many people don't click." At best
it's a "you might hurt my feelings because I'm left out" problem,
but I think even that's wrong.
There's nothing inherently "mouse-ist" about "click here". It
doesn't say "click here with your mouse". You can "click" with a
pointer of another kind, with a keyboard (my keys click, don't
yours?), and with anything else. A "click" in web parliance really
just means "select this link", and it turns out that pretty much
everyone who uses the web can understand exactly what it means.
People with keyboards don't sit there saying, "'Click here???' What
in the world? I have no mouse!"
In fact, it's pretty much become a case that "click here" is more
slang than technical instruction. It means "follow this link" not
"click on your mouse button."
Therefore, I think it's safe to say "click" without fears of being
"device specific." A link that _only_ says "click here" is bad
for other reasons, but not for the reason that "not everyone clicks".
--Kynn
--
Kynn Bartlett < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > http://kynn.com/
Technical Developer Liaison, Reef http://www.reef.com/
Chief Technologist, Idyll Mountain Internet http://idyllmtn.com/
Online Instructor, Accessible Web Design http://kynn.com/+d201

From: Mark Rew
Date: Tue, Sep 04 2001 10:32AM
Subject: Re: click here?
← Previous message | Next message →

This is a good discussion because it ask the question what will make sense
to someone not relying on the graphics image. I have two points:
- I agree with the idea that "click" can refer to almost any type of
pointing device. I use a keyboard to browse and select links from Web
pages, but I use the term "click."
Second: When telling the user to "click here to view map" I would ask a map
of what. Should the link say, "Click here to view a map of the U.S."? When
creating atl text I try to provide enough information so that the user knows
exactly what will happen if they click on the image.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kynn Bartlett" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "WebAIM forum" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: click here?

> At 08:39 AM 9/4/2001 , Jo Miller wrote:
> >"View map" would be sufficient and preferable, in my opinion. The words
"click here" are not necessary, and in any case it is wise to avoid
device-specific language (remember, there are many devices that people can
use to browse the web, and not everyone follows links by "clicking" with a
mouse).
>
> I agree that "click here" isn't good for hypertext reasons, but I
> am very very very worried about the idea that it's somehow an
> accessibility problem because "many people don't click." At best
> it's a "you might hurt my feelings because I'm left out" problem,
> but I think even that's wrong.
>
> There's nothing inherently "mouse-ist" about "click here". It
> doesn't say "click here with your mouse". You can "click" with a
> pointer of another kind, with a keyboard (my keys click, don't
> yours?), and with anything else. A "click" in web parliance really
> just means "select this link", and it turns out that pretty much
> everyone who uses the web can understand exactly what it means.
> People with keyboards don't sit there saying, "'Click here???' What
> in the world? I have no mouse!"
>
> In fact, it's pretty much become a case that "click here" is more
> slang than technical instruction. It means "follow this link" not
> "click on your mouse button."
>
> Therefore, I think it's safe to say "click" without fears of being
> "device specific." A link that _only_ says "click here" is bad
> for other reasons, but not for the reason that "not everyone clicks".
>
> --Kynn
>
> --
> Kynn Bartlett < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > http://kynn.com/
> Technical Developer Liaison, Reef http://www.reef.com/
> Chief Technologist, Idyll Mountain Internet http://idyllmtn.com/
> Online Instructor, Accessible Web Design http://kynn.com/+d201
>
>
>

From: Jo Miller
Date: Tue, Sep 04 2001 10:43AM
Subject: Re: click here?
← Previous message | Next message →

Kynn,
I am sorry that you misunderstood me; let me clarify. Please note
that I never said it was an accessibility problem, nor did I suggest
that non-mouse users are too stupid to know what is meant by "click
here". I would, however, like to see a move away from device-specific
language in general, for a number of reasons. One of these reasons is
that language choices tend to reveal and reinforce our
assumptions--in this case, the assumption that the web is something
we access with a graphical browser and mouse. Designers who think
about device independence when choosing their language are more
likely to think about device independence in general, and (one hopes)
more likely to avoid language and design choices that do present
accessibility barriers (such as instructing users to "click the image
at the top right"). As for hurt feelings, I don't believe non-mouse
users are lying awake crying over the slight, but I do think that
exclusive (that is, unnecessarily device-specific) language like
"click here" sends a number of subtle messages to the user, none of
them good.
Jo
At 9:02 -0700 9/4/01, Kynn Bartlett wrote:
>At 08:39 AM 9/4/2001 , Jo Miller wrote:
>>"View map" would be sufficient and preferable, in my opinion. The
>>words "click here" are not necessary, and in any case it is wise to
>>avoid device-specific language (remember, there are many devices
>>that people can use to browse the web, and not everyone follows
>>links by "clicking" with a mouse).
>
>I agree that "click here" isn't good for hypertext reasons, but I
>am very very very worried about the idea that it's somehow an
>accessibility problem because "many people don't click." At best
>it's a "you might hurt my feelings because I'm left out" problem,
>but I think even that's wrong.
>
>There's nothing inherently "mouse-ist" about "click here". It
>doesn't say "click here with your mouse". You can "click" with a
>pointer of another kind, with a keyboard (my keys click, don't
>yours?), and with anything else. A "click" in web parliance really
>just means "select this link", and it turns out that pretty much
>everyone who uses the web can understand exactly what it means.
>People with keyboards don't sit there saying, "'Click here???' What
>in the world? I have no mouse!"
>
>In fact, it's pretty much become a case that "click here" is more
>slang than technical instruction. It means "follow this link" not
>"click on your mouse button."
>
>Therefore, I think it's safe to say "click" without fears of being
>"device specific." A link that _only_ says "click here" is bad
>for other reasons, but not for the reason that "not everyone clicks".
>
>--Kynn
>
>--
>Kynn Bartlett < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > http://kynn.com/
>Technical Developer Liaison, Reef http://www.reef.com/
>Chief Technologist, Idyll Mountain Internet http://idyllmtn.com/
>Online Instructor, Accessible Web Design http://kynn.com/+d201
--
Jo Miller
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

From: John Farrie
Date: Tue, Sep 04 2001 10:48AM
Subject: Re: click here?
← Previous message | Next message →

> "View map" would be sufficient and preferable, in my opinion. The
> words "click here" are not necessary, and in any case it is wise to
> avoid device-specific language (remember, there are many devices that
> people can use to browse the web, and not everyone follows links by
> "clicking" with a mouse).
Exactly. Taking it to extremes to illustrate the point, you could either
have "View map", or you could have "Click here to view map. If you are
using a keyboard, TAB here then press Enter to view map. If you are using
voice command...." (I won't go on).
In real life, a click here link is equivalent to having "Open door and enter
to access the office" instead of just "OFFICE" on an office door.
One reason why people may feel obliged to add the dreaded "click here" is
because they have disguised the hyperlinks by changing the style of the
anchor tag. The answer to that is to make sure that links are still easily
recognisable as links.
Another reason is that a site may use menus for most links, and just have
the occasional link within the text. Because the link is unexpected, the
designer/author may feel obliged to add the "click here" prefix to draw
attention to it. A solution to this may be to either use links in the text
as a matter of routine (so that they are expected), or to take the link out
of the text and add it as a navigation item on the page. (Consistency being
the key).
John Farrie
Accessibility by Design
http://accessibilitybydesign.co.uk

From: Wendy R. Mullin
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2001 1:51PM
Subject: Re: click here?
← Previous message | No next message

I am looking for references that will help me build a case for using
descriptive text for links instead of "click here for .....". I have
several references within the accessibility literature but I was
wondering if anyone can direct me to general web design books or
articles that discourages the use of "click here".
Cheryl,
Sorry I took so long to respond. I was out most of last week. I hope you can still use the following information.
1) Patrick J. Lynch and Sarah Horton's Web Style Guide: Basic Design for Creating Web Sites
http://info.med.yale.edu/caim/manual/
In the section called "Editorial Syle" (http://info.med.yale.edu/caim/manual/pages/editorial_style.html), there is a subsection called "Links and language" that discusses why not to use "click here".
2) Title: Creative content for the Web
Author: Millon, Marc.
Description: 188 p. ; 23 cm.
Published: Exeter, England ; Portland, Or. : Intellect, 1999.
LC Subjects: Web publishing.
World Wide Web.
Notes: Includes bibliographical references (p. 179-184) and index.
ISN: 1871516978
In Chapter 8, Writing for the Web, there is a brief mention of using descriptive links:
"Links, if textual rather than graphic, should be created from significant or meaningful words and phrases and they ought to be places within a contextual framework that helps the user to know where he will be taken (unless you are offering links serendipitously, inviting the user to go on a journey of discovery that leads to somewhere not anticipated.)" (p. 114)
3) Title: Human factors and Web development
Description: ix, 280 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.
Published: Mahwah, N.J. : Lawrence Erlbaum Associates, 1998.
LC Subjects: Web sites --Design.
Web sites --Psychological aspects.
World Wide Web --Psychological aspects.
Human-computer interaction.
Other Authors: Forsythe, Chris. Grose, Eric. Ratner, Julie.
Notes: Includes bibliographical references and indexes.
ISN: 0805828230 (acid-free paper)
0805828249 (pbk. : aacid=free paper)

Chapter 11, Page Design Guidelines Developed Through Usability Testing
In the section on "Navigation" there is a subsection called "Selecting appropriate Names for Links". While this section does not mention the dreaded "click here", is does include the results of a usability study on the appropriateness of link names and, based upon this study, provides three guidelines for naming links.
"Link names should reflect the content of the page they point to." (p. 146)
"Link names should be specific. For example, it is more meaningful to use Crosswords and Comics instead of Recreation and Deadlines instead of Important Stuff." (p 146)
"Avoid names that are not commonly understood such as technical words and terms with in-house or local meanings. For example, it is more meaningful to use Industrial Affiliates Program instead of IAP and Computer and Communications Technologies instead of Telematics." (p 146)

Wendy R. Mullin
Web Developer, University of South Carolina
1244 Blossom Street, Columbia, South Carolina 29208
voice: 803-777-6785 | fax: 803-777-4149
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = | http://isg.csd.sc.edu/~wmullin/