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Thread: Heading structure

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Number of posts in this thread: 15 (In chronological order)

From: Barry Hill
Date: Sat, Mar 09 2019 4:34AM
Subject: Heading structure
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Hi all



I'm struggling to find a WCAG 2.1 success criteria for a correctly nested
heading structure.



For the h1 heading, although it is generally used for skip links, I believe
that we can use success Criterion 2.4.1 Bypass Blocks (Level A):

"A mechanism is available to bypass blocks of content that are repeated on
multiple Web pages."



For the heading structure, can I be very literal with Success Criterion
1.3.1 Info and Relationships (Level A):

"Information, structure, and relationships conveyed through presentation
can be programmatically determined or are available in text."



My thinking is that each level of heading is related to the higher level in
a hierarchy.



So as to not add needlessly to the number of emails in the list, I thank you
in anticipation.



Cheers



Barry







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From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Sat, Mar 09 2019 4:35AM
Subject: Re: Heading structure
← Previous message | Next message →

Incorrectly set heading levels are generally a 1.3.1 issue.

P

On 09/03/2019 11:34, Barry Hill wrote:
> Hi all
>
>
>
> I'm struggling to find a WCAG 2.1 success criteria for a correctly nested
> heading structure.
>
>
>
> For the h1 heading, although it is generally used for skip links, I believe
> that we can use success Criterion 2.4.1 Bypass Blocks (Level A):
>
> "A mechanism is available to bypass blocks of content that are repeated on
> multiple Web pages."
>
>
>
> For the heading structure, can I be very literal with Success Criterion
> 1.3.1 Info and Relationships (Level A):
>
> "Information, structure, and relationships conveyed through presentation
> can be programmatically determined or are available in text."
>
>
>
> My thinking is that each level of heading is related to the higher level in
> a hierarchy.
>
>
>
> So as to not add needlessly to the number of emails in the list, I thank you
> in anticipation.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Barry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> > > > >


--
Patrick H. Lauke

www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: glen walker
Date: Sat, Mar 09 2019 9:17AM
Subject: Re: Heading structure
← Previous message | Next message →

I agree with Patrick on 1.3.1 but be careful that you don't automatically
flag an error just because the heading levels aren't in order. 1.3.1 just
says you can determine the "structure, and relationships". It doesn't say
the headings must be in order (although that's generally the
recommendation).

I've seen pages where an H1 is not the first heading on a page (in the DOM)
but it made perfect sense so wasn't an error. I believe it had something
to do with the H1 in the <main> but the <header> or left <nav> had a
sub-heading in it.

And sometimes skipping a level is ok too. If you have a common pattern on
your pages where you have H1-H3 on the main part of the page then H4 in the
footer, but then you have a page that doesn't have as much info so it only
has H1 and H2, the footer should still be H4 so that it's consistent with
the other pages. You skipped H3 but that's ok. Again, the "structure,
and relationships" are understood so it passes 1.3.1.

Glen

From: Maupin, Brennan Polaris McCaffrey - maupinbp
Date: Mon, Mar 11 2019 7:02AM
Subject: Re: Heading structure
← Previous message | Next message →

I've been running into this a lot personally. I also have been focusing on 1.3.1 compliance when I tell people around me that it is an issue.

My problem is that, depending on how your website is made and managed, web content creators will may heading levels based off of their visual appearance rather than page structure.

When I justify heading levels to people I cite guideline 141 which states that
"To facilitate navigation and understanding of overall document structure, authors should use headings that are properly nested (e.g., h1 followed by h2, h2 followed by h2 or h3, h3 followed by h3 or h4, etc.)." [1]

An important note that is in line with Glen's comments; their tutorial [2] reinforces that headings should be in order, but states that
"In fixed sections of the page, for example in sidebars, the heading ranks should not change depending on the ranks in the content area. In those cases, consistency across pages is more important."

Someone tell me if I am wrong, (I am new to this,) but I typically feel that if someone is using headings out of order for *main content* on a page, as opposed to elements that are consistent to a set of pages (e.g. navigation bar, sidebar, contact info), in such cases the headings should be fixed. Is that in line with what you all practice?

Brennan

[1] https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/G141.html
[2] https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/page-structure/headings/


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of glen walker
Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2019 11:17 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

I agree with Patrick on 1.3.1 but be careful that you don't automatically flag an error just because the heading levels aren't in order. 1.3.1 just says you can determine the "structure, and relationships". It doesn't say the headings must be in order (although that's generally the recommendation).

I've seen pages where an H1 is not the first heading on a page (in the DOM) but it made perfect sense so wasn't an error. I believe it had something to do with the H1 in the <main> but the <header> or left <nav> had a sub-heading in it.

And sometimes skipping a level is ok too. If you have a common pattern on your pages where you have H1-H3 on the main part of the page then H4 in the footer, but then you have a page that doesn't have as much info so it only has H1 and H2, the footer should still be H4 so that it's consistent with the other pages. You skipped H3 but that's ok. Again, the "structure, and relationships" are understood so it passes 1.3.1.

Glen

From: Swift, Daniel P.
Date: Mon, Mar 11 2019 7:57AM
Subject: Re: Heading structure
← Previous message | Next message →

Brennan:

I'm a strong proponent of headers always being in order and sequential. In my opinion, if situations arise that cause a disconnect between look and feel and consistency, such as in Glen's example, then the coding and content needs to be reevaluated. That's just my opinion though.

Dan Swift
Senior Web Specialist
Enterprise Services
West Chester University
610.738.0589

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Maupin, Brennan Polaris McCaffrey - maupinbp
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 9:03 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

I've been running into this a lot personally. I also have been focusing on 1.3.1 compliance when I tell people around me that it is an issue.

My problem is that, depending on how your website is made and managed, web content creators will may heading levels based off of their visual appearance rather than page structure.

When I justify heading levels to people I cite guideline 141 which states that "To facilitate navigation and understanding of overall document structure, authors should use headings that are properly nested (e.g., h1 followed by h2, h2 followed by h2 or h3, h3 followed by h3 or h4, etc.)." [1]

An important note that is in line with Glen's comments; their tutorial [2] reinforces that headings should be in order, but states that "In fixed sections of the page, for example in sidebars, the heading ranks should not change depending on the ranks in the content area. In those cases, consistency across pages is more important."

Someone tell me if I am wrong, (I am new to this,) but I typically feel that if someone is using headings out of order for *main content* on a page, as opposed to elements that are consistent to a set of pages (e.g. navigation bar, sidebar, contact info), in such cases the headings should be fixed. Is that in line with what you all practice?

Brennan

[1] https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/G141.html
[2] https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/page-structure/headings/


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of glen walker
Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2019 11:17 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

I agree with Patrick on 1.3.1 but be careful that you don't automatically flag an error just because the heading levels aren't in order. 1.3.1 just says you can determine the "structure, and relationships". It doesn't say the headings must be in order (although that's generally the recommendation).

I've seen pages where an H1 is not the first heading on a page (in the DOM) but it made perfect sense so wasn't an error. I believe it had something to do with the H1 in the <main> but the <header> or left <nav> had a sub-heading in it.

And sometimes skipping a level is ok too. If you have a common pattern on your pages where you have H1-H3 on the main part of the page then H4 in the footer, but then you have a page that doesn't have as much info so it only has H1 and H2, the footer should still be H4 so that it's consistent with the other pages. You skipped H3 but that's ok. Again, the "structure, and relationships" are understood so it passes 1.3.1.

Glen

From: Maupin, Brennan Polaris McCaffrey - maupinbp
Date: Mon, Mar 11 2019 8:22AM
Subject: Re: Heading structure
← Previous message | Next message →

Great point Dan. I agree with you completely, and if I were designing a webpage I would likely do it this way.

My problem is that I am working with a very dispersed group of web content creators for the same base website. When they work with the web design service, they have control of the headings on their own content, but for shared content of the whole website such as footers and headers, those headings are default and preset. I've found that these content creators use their pages *vastly* different from one another, which is another issue haha.

Thanks,
-Brennan

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Swift, Daniel P.
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 9:58 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

Brennan:

I'm a strong proponent of headers always being in order and sequential. In my opinion, if situations arise that cause a disconnect between look and feel and consistency, such as in Glen's example, then the coding and content needs to be reevaluated. That's just my opinion though.

Dan Swift
Senior Web Specialist
Enterprise Services
West Chester University
610.738.0589

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Maupin, Brennan Polaris McCaffrey - maupinbp
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 9:03 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

I've been running into this a lot personally. I also have been focusing on 1.3.1 compliance when I tell people around me that it is an issue.

My problem is that, depending on how your website is made and managed, web content creators will may heading levels based off of their visual appearance rather than page structure.

When I justify heading levels to people I cite guideline 141 which states that "To facilitate navigation and understanding of overall document structure, authors should use headings that are properly nested (e.g., h1 followed by h2, h2 followed by h2 or h3, h3 followed by h3 or h4, etc.)." [1]

An important note that is in line with Glen's comments; their tutorial [2] reinforces that headings should be in order, but states that "In fixed sections of the page, for example in sidebars, the heading ranks should not change depending on the ranks in the content area. In those cases, consistency across pages is more important."

Someone tell me if I am wrong, (I am new to this,) but I typically feel that if someone is using headings out of order for *main content* on a page, as opposed to elements that are consistent to a set of pages (e.g. navigation bar, sidebar, contact info), in such cases the headings should be fixed. Is that in line with what you all practice?

Brennan

[1] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_TR_WCAG20-2DTECHS_G141.html&d=DwICAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=tzjt3_Kd4qvmdydGF10YVA&m=WklMV2ouFiGhIZIXFPHhSgOjq_fQlH2dAdVQeYohSzI&s=MVZjICvhOKpoyrDgb91L8iFc5wlZ-jODXfwIZl8qTac&e=
[2] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_WAI_tutorials_page-2Dstructure_headings_&d=DwICAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=tzjt3_Kd4qvmdydGF10YVA&m=WklMV2ouFiGhIZIXFPHhSgOjq_fQlH2dAdVQeYohSzI&s=5QL8uwhYoPRrW8MDIbjh9FHnkKPyuCH_OtWzjsXpXgM&e=


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of glen walker
Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2019 11:17 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

I agree with Patrick on 1.3.1 but be careful that you don't automatically flag an error just because the heading levels aren't in order. 1.3.1 just says you can determine the "structure, and relationships". It doesn't say the headings must be in order (although that's generally the recommendation).

I've seen pages where an H1 is not the first heading on a page (in the DOM) but it made perfect sense so wasn't an error. I believe it had something to do with the H1 in the <main> but the <header> or left <nav> had a sub-heading in it.

And sometimes skipping a level is ok too. If you have a common pattern on your pages where you have H1-H3 on the main part of the page then H4 in the footer, but then you have a page that doesn't have as much info so it only has H1 and H2, the footer should still be H4 so that it's consistent with the other pages. You skipped H3 but that's ok. Again, the "structure, and relationships" are understood so it passes 1.3.1.

Glen

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Mon, Mar 11 2019 8:29AM
Subject: Re: Heading structure
← Previous message | Next message →

On 11/03/2019 13:02, Maupin, Brennan Polaris McCaffrey - maupinbp wrote:
[...]
> When I justify heading levels to people I cite guideline 141 which states that
> "To facilitate navigation and understanding of overall document structure, authors should use headings that are properly nested (e.g., h1 followed by h2, h2 followed by h2 or h3, h3 followed by h3 or h4, etc.)." [1]

Noting here that it's not a guideline (which is normative), but a
technique (which is informative, so holds no formal weight).

Also, note the use of "should" rather than "must".

Of course, in a formal evaluation, you're free to mark 1.3.1 as a FAIL,
but it's a very harsh interpretation I'd say (particularly in situations
where a site may have far bigger fish to fry / far more fundamental
problems). It's what I sometimes would call a "soft fail", as in "nobody
dies because of it, but yes ideally it should really be fixed".

In my opinion, of course.

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke

www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: Karlen Communications
Date: Mon, Mar 11 2019 8:09AM
Subject: Re: Heading structure
← Previous message | Next message →

+1!

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
Swift, Daniel P.
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 9:58 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

Brennan:

I'm a strong proponent of headers always being in order and sequential. In
my opinion, if situations arise that cause a disconnect between look and
feel and consistency, such as in Glen's example, then the coding and content
needs to be reevaluated. That's just my opinion though.

Dan Swift
Senior Web Specialist
Enterprise Services
West Chester University
610.738.0589

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
Of Maupin, Brennan Polaris McCaffrey - maupinbp
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 9:03 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

I've been running into this a lot personally. I also have been focusing on
1.3.1 compliance when I tell people around me that it is an issue.

My problem is that, depending on how your website is made and managed, web
content creators will may heading levels based off of their visual
appearance rather than page structure.

When I justify heading levels to people I cite guideline 141 which states
that "To facilitate navigation and understanding of overall document
structure, authors should use headings that are properly nested (e.g., h1
followed by h2, h2 followed by h2 or h3, h3 followed by h3 or h4, etc.)."
[1]

An important note that is in line with Glen's comments; their tutorial [2]
reinforces that headings should be in order, but states that "In fixed
sections of the page, for example in sidebars, the heading ranks should not
change depending on the ranks in the content area. In those cases,
consistency across pages is more important."

Someone tell me if I am wrong, (I am new to this,) but I typically feel that
if someone is using headings out of order for *main content* on a page, as
opposed to elements that are consistent to a set of pages (e.g. navigation
bar, sidebar, contact info), in such cases the headings should be fixed. Is
that in line with what you all practice?

Brennan

[1] https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/G141.html
[2] https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/page-structure/headings/


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of glen
walker
Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2019 11:17 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

I agree with Patrick on 1.3.1 but be careful that you don't automatically
flag an error just because the heading levels aren't in order. 1.3.1 just
says you can determine the "structure, and relationships". It doesn't say
the headings must be in order (although that's generally the
recommendation).

I've seen pages where an H1 is not the first heading on a page (in the DOM)
but it made perfect sense so wasn't an error. I believe it had something to
do with the H1 in the <main> but the <header> or left <nav> had a
sub-heading in it.

And sometimes skipping a level is ok too. If you have a common pattern on
your pages where you have H1-H3 on the main part of the page then H4 in the
footer, but then you have a page that doesn't have as much info so it only
has H1 and H2, the footer should still be H4 so that it's consistent with
the other pages. You skipped H3 but that's ok. Again, the "structure, and
relationships" are understood so it passes 1.3.1.

Glen
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From: Swift, Daniel P.
Date: Mon, Mar 11 2019 8:50AM
Subject: Re: Heading structure
← Previous message | Next message →

Brennan:

I feel your pain. The people that maintain our content are highly decentralized. In order for people to gain access to our CMS, we require them to attend a training. While they do have the ability to choose different headers and potentially create havoc, we give them the foundation for why they shouldn't do that. We stress the importance of maintaining a homogenous site and citing ADA. Every once in a while, we find people using the headers a little too liberally. For the most part, they adhere to the rules. Again, I've found that giving people the "why" reason has helped us tremendously over the years.

Good luck!

Dan Swift
Senior Web Specialist
Enterprise Services
West Chester University
610.738.0589

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Maupin, Brennan Polaris McCaffrey - maupinbp
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 10:23 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

Great point Dan. I agree with you completely, and if I were designing a webpage I would likely do it this way.

My problem is that I am working with a very dispersed group of web content creators for the same base website. When they work with the web design service, they have control of the headings on their own content, but for shared content of the whole website such as footers and headers, those headings are default and preset. I've found that these content creators use their pages *vastly* different from one another, which is another issue haha.

Thanks,
-Brennan

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Swift, Daniel P.
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 9:58 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

Brennan:

I'm a strong proponent of headers always being in order and sequential. In my opinion, if situations arise that cause a disconnect between look and feel and consistency, such as in Glen's example, then the coding and content needs to be reevaluated. That's just my opinion though.

Dan Swift
Senior Web Specialist
Enterprise Services
West Chester University
610.738.0589

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Maupin, Brennan Polaris McCaffrey - maupinbp
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 9:03 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

I've been running into this a lot personally. I also have been focusing on 1.3.1 compliance when I tell people around me that it is an issue.

My problem is that, depending on how your website is made and managed, web content creators will may heading levels based off of their visual appearance rather than page structure.

When I justify heading levels to people I cite guideline 141 which states that "To facilitate navigation and understanding of overall document structure, authors should use headings that are properly nested (e.g., h1 followed by h2, h2 followed by h2 or h3, h3 followed by h3 or h4, etc.)." [1]

An important note that is in line with Glen's comments; their tutorial [2] reinforces that headings should be in order, but states that "In fixed sections of the page, for example in sidebars, the heading ranks should not change depending on the ranks in the content area. In those cases, consistency across pages is more important."

Someone tell me if I am wrong, (I am new to this,) but I typically feel that if someone is using headings out of order for *main content* on a page, as opposed to elements that are consistent to a set of pages (e.g. navigation bar, sidebar, contact info), in such cases the headings should be fixed. Is that in line with what you all practice?

Brennan

[1] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_TR_WCAG20-2DTECHS_G141.html&d=DwICAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=tzjt3_Kd4qvmdydGF10YVA&m=WklMV2ouFiGhIZIXFPHhSgOjq_fQlH2dAdVQeYohSzI&s=MVZjICvhOKpoyrDgb91L8iFc5wlZ-jODXfwIZl8qTac&e=
[2] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_WAI_tutorials_page-2Dstructure_headings_&d=DwICAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=tzjt3_Kd4qvmdydGF10YVA&m=WklMV2ouFiGhIZIXFPHhSgOjq_fQlH2dAdVQeYohSzI&s=5QL8uwhYoPRrW8MDIbjh9FHnkKPyuCH_OtWzjsXpXgM&e=


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of glen walker
Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2019 11:17 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

I agree with Patrick on 1.3.1 but be careful that you don't automatically flag an error just because the heading levels aren't in order. 1.3.1 just says you can determine the "structure, and relationships". It doesn't say the headings must be in order (although that's generally the recommendation).

I've seen pages where an H1 is not the first heading on a page (in the DOM) but it made perfect sense so wasn't an error. I believe it had something to do with the H1 in the <main> but the <header> or left <nav> had a sub-heading in it.

And sometimes skipping a level is ok too. If you have a common pattern on your pages where you have H1-H3 on the main part of the page then H4 in the footer, but then you have a page that doesn't have as much info so it only has H1 and H2, the footer should still be H4 so that it's consistent with the other pages. You skipped H3 but that's ok. Again, the "structure, and relationships" are understood so it passes 1.3.1.

Glen

From: Greenfield, Mark
Date: Mon, Mar 11 2019 9:02AM
Subject: Re: Heading structure
← Previous message | Next message →

The biggest challenge I see with heading structure is the fundamental approach used by most CMS's. The page is no longer the "atom" or smallest component of the web. Pages now consist of modules, widgets, or components that authors can place most anywhere on a page. Most of these components should have a header, and this creates challenges for nesting headings. I'd love to hear how others approach this challenge. (The primary CMS on our campus is Adobe Experience Manager)

Mark

Mark A. Greenfield 
Web Accessibility Officer
Office of Equity, Diversity and Inclusion
416 Capen Hall
State University of New York at Buffalo 
Buffalo, N.Y.  14260
telephone: (716)645-2811 
e-mail:  = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =



-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Swift, Daniel P.
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 10:51 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

Brennan:

I feel your pain. The people that maintain our content are highly decentralized. In order for people to gain access to our CMS, we require them to attend a training. While they do have the ability to choose different headers and potentially create havoc, we give them the foundation for why they shouldn't do that. We stress the importance of maintaining a homogenous site and citing ADA. Every once in a while, we find people using the headers a little too liberally. For the most part, they adhere to the rules. Again, I've found that giving people the "why" reason has helped us tremendously over the years.

Good luck!

Dan Swift
Senior Web Specialist
Enterprise Services
West Chester University
610.738.0589

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Maupin, Brennan Polaris McCaffrey - maupinbp
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 10:23 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

Great point Dan. I agree with you completely, and if I were designing a webpage I would likely do it this way.

My problem is that I am working with a very dispersed group of web content creators for the same base website. When they work with the web design service, they have control of the headings on their own content, but for shared content of the whole website such as footers and headers, those headings are default and preset. I've found that these content creators use their pages *vastly* different from one another, which is another issue haha.

Thanks,
-Brennan

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Swift, Daniel P.
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 9:58 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

Brennan:

I'm a strong proponent of headers always being in order and sequential. In my opinion, if situations arise that cause a disconnect between look and feel and consistency, such as in Glen's example, then the coding and content needs to be reevaluated. That's just my opinion though.

Dan Swift
Senior Web Specialist
Enterprise Services
West Chester University
610.738.0589

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Maupin, Brennan Polaris McCaffrey - maupinbp
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 9:03 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

I've been running into this a lot personally. I also have been focusing on 1.3.1 compliance when I tell people around me that it is an issue.

My problem is that, depending on how your website is made and managed, web content creators will may heading levels based off of their visual appearance rather than page structure.

When I justify heading levels to people I cite guideline 141 which states that "To facilitate navigation and understanding of overall document structure, authors should use headings that are properly nested (e.g., h1 followed by h2, h2 followed by h2 or h3, h3 followed by h3 or h4, etc.)." [1]

An important note that is in line with Glen's comments; their tutorial [2] reinforces that headings should be in order, but states that "In fixed sections of the page, for example in sidebars, the heading ranks should not change depending on the ranks in the content area. In those cases, consistency across pages is more important."

Someone tell me if I am wrong, (I am new to this,) but I typically feel that if someone is using headings out of order for *main content* on a page, as opposed to elements that are consistent to a set of pages (e.g. navigation bar, sidebar, contact info), in such cases the headings should be fixed. Is that in line with what you all practice?

Brennan

[1] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_TR_WCAG20-2DTECHS_G141.html&d=DwICAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=tzjt3_Kd4qvmdydGF10YVA&m=WklMV2ouFiGhIZIXFPHhSgOjq_fQlH2dAdVQeYohSzI&s=MVZjICvhOKpoyrDgb91L8iFc5wlZ-jODXfwIZl8qTac&e=
[2] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_WAI_tutorials_page-2Dstructure_headings_&d=DwICAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=tzjt3_Kd4qvmdydGF10YVA&m=WklMV2ouFiGhIZIXFPHhSgOjq_fQlH2dAdVQeYohSzI&s=5QL8uwhYoPRrW8MDIbjh9FHnkKPyuCH_OtWzjsXpXgM&e=


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of glen walker
Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2019 11:17 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

I agree with Patrick on 1.3.1 but be careful that you don't automatically flag an error just because the heading levels aren't in order. 1.3.1 just says you can determine the "structure, and relationships". It doesn't say the headings must be in order (although that's generally the recommendation).

I've seen pages where an H1 is not the first heading on a page (in the DOM) but it made perfect sense so wasn't an error. I believe it had something to do with the H1 in the <main> but the <header> or left <nav> had a sub-heading in it.

And sometimes skipping a level is ok too. If you have a common pattern on your pages where you have H1-H3 on the main part of the page then H4 in the footer, but then you have a page that doesn't have as much info so it only has H1 and H2, the footer should still be H4 so that it's consistent with the other pages. You skipped H3 but that's ok. Again, the "structure, and relationships" are understood so it passes 1.3.1.

Glen

From: Jim Homme
Date: Mon, Mar 11 2019 9:22AM
Subject: Re: Heading structure
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi,
I wonder if you would be able to override what your CMS does by using ARIA to adjust heading levels, but this might open up some tricky issues.

Thanks.

Jim



==========
Jim Homme
Digital Accessibility
Bender Consulting Services
412-787-8567
https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Greenfield, Mark
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 11:03 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

The biggest challenge I see with heading structure is the fundamental approach used by most CMS's. The page is no longer the "atom" or smallest component of the web. Pages now consist of modules, widgets, or components that authors can place most anywhere on a page. Most of these components should have a header, and this creates challenges for nesting headings. I'd love to hear how others approach this challenge. (The primary CMS on our campus is Adobe Experience Manager)

Mark

Mark A. Greenfield
Web Accessibility Officer
Office of Equity, Diversity and Inclusion
416 Capen Hall
State University of New York at Buffalo Buffalo, N.Y.  14260
telephone: (716)645-2811
e-mail:  = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =



-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Swift, Daniel P.
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 10:51 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

Brennan:

I feel your pain. The people that maintain our content are highly decentralized. In order for people to gain access to our CMS, we require them to attend a training. While they do have the ability to choose different headers and potentially create havoc, we give them the foundation for why they shouldn't do that. We stress the importance of maintaining a homogenous site and citing ADA. Every once in a while, we find people using the headers a little too liberally. For the most part, they adhere to the rules. Again, I've found that giving people the "why" reason has helped us tremendously over the years.

Good luck!

Dan Swift
Senior Web Specialist
Enterprise Services
West Chester University
610.738.0589

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Maupin, Brennan Polaris McCaffrey - maupinbp
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 10:23 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

Great point Dan. I agree with you completely, and if I were designing a webpage I would likely do it this way.

My problem is that I am working with a very dispersed group of web content creators for the same base website. When they work with the web design service, they have control of the headings on their own content, but for shared content of the whole website such as footers and headers, those headings are default and preset. I've found that these content creators use their pages *vastly* different from one another, which is another issue haha.

Thanks,
-Brennan

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Swift, Daniel P.
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 9:58 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

Brennan:

I'm a strong proponent of headers always being in order and sequential. In my opinion, if situations arise that cause a disconnect between look and feel and consistency, such as in Glen's example, then the coding and content needs to be reevaluated. That's just my opinion though.

Dan Swift
Senior Web Specialist
Enterprise Services
West Chester University
610.738.0589

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Maupin, Brennan Polaris McCaffrey - maupinbp
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 9:03 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

I've been running into this a lot personally. I also have been focusing on 1.3.1 compliance when I tell people around me that it is an issue.

My problem is that, depending on how your website is made and managed, web content creators will may heading levels based off of their visual appearance rather than page structure.

When I justify heading levels to people I cite guideline 141 which states that "To facilitate navigation and understanding of overall document structure, authors should use headings that are properly nested (e.g., h1 followed by h2, h2 followed by h2 or h3, h3 followed by h3 or h4, etc.)." [1]

An important note that is in line with Glen's comments; their tutorial [2] reinforces that headings should be in order, but states that "In fixed sections of the page, for example in sidebars, the heading ranks should not change depending on the ranks in the content area. In those cases, consistency across pages is more important."

Someone tell me if I am wrong, (I am new to this,) but I typically feel that if someone is using headings out of order for *main content* on a page, as opposed to elements that are consistent to a set of pages (e.g. navigation bar, sidebar, contact info), in such cases the headings should be fixed. Is that in line with what you all practice?

Brennan

[1] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_TR_WCAG20-2DTECHS_G141.html&d=DwICAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=tzjt3_Kd4qvmdydGF10YVA&m=WklMV2ouFiGhIZIXFPHhSgOjq_fQlH2dAdVQeYohSzI&s=MVZjICvhOKpoyrDgb91L8iFc5wlZ-jODXfwIZl8qTac&e=
[2] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_WAI_tutorials_page-2Dstructure_headings_&d=DwICAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=tzjt3_Kd4qvmdydGF10YVA&m=WklMV2ouFiGhIZIXFPHhSgOjq_fQlH2dAdVQeYohSzI&s=5QL8uwhYoPRrW8MDIbjh9FHnkKPyuCH_OtWzjsXpXgM&e=


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of glen walker
Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2019 11:17 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

I agree with Patrick on 1.3.1 but be careful that you don't automatically flag an error just because the heading levels aren't in order. 1.3.1 just says you can determine the "structure, and relationships". It doesn't say the headings must be in order (although that's generally the recommendation).

I've seen pages where an H1 is not the first heading on a page (in the DOM) but it made perfect sense so wasn't an error. I believe it had something to do with the H1 in the <main> but the <header> or left <nav> had a sub-heading in it.

And sometimes skipping a level is ok too. If you have a common pattern on your pages where you have H1-H3 on the main part of the page then H4 in the footer, but then you have a page that doesn't have as much info so it only has H1 and H2, the footer should still be H4 so that it's consistent with the other pages. You skipped H3 but that's ok. Again, the "structure, and relationships" are understood so it passes 1.3.1.

Glen

From: Maupin, Brennan Polaris McCaffrey - maupinbp
Date: Mon, Mar 11 2019 9:27AM
Subject: Re: Heading structure
← Previous message | Next message →

Mark, I'm experiencing the same thing! The good news is that headings are encouraged for search engine optimization. The bad news is that people don't necessarily know how use them correctly or the CMS has a preset heading level depending on the type of widget or content block they are creating.

Jim, personally, my next step is to contact IT once I build my case and see if it is possible to allow content creators to manually specify heading level in whatever widget or content block they are creating. I don't know out CMS on the back-end so I am not sure if this is possible, but I am hoping so.

-Brennan Maupin

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Jim Homme
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 11:22 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

Hi,
I wonder if you would be able to override what your CMS does by using ARIA to adjust heading levels, but this might open up some tricky issues.

Thanks.

Jim



==========
Jim Homme
Digital Accessibility
Bender Consulting Services
412-787-8567
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.benderconsult.com_our-2520services_hightest-2Daccessible-2Dtechnology-2Dsolutions&d=DwIFAw&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=tzjt3_Kd4qvmdydGF10YVA&m=pyWMsgtbWugT7p80FymihsIf8_Ep2zD9t-ukCbCjVQc&s=5_xBvaKyZI6wVsihzXMdMgUK_yugCI77w7wthciNXOA&e=

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Greenfield, Mark
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 11:03 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

The biggest challenge I see with heading structure is the fundamental approach used by most CMS's. The page is no longer the "atom" or smallest component of the web. Pages now consist of modules, widgets, or components that authors can place most anywhere on a page. Most of these components should have a header, and this creates challenges for nesting headings. I'd love to hear how others approach this challenge. (The primary CMS on our campus is Adobe Experience Manager)

Mark

Mark A. Greenfield
Web Accessibility Officer
Office of Equity, Diversity and Inclusion
416 Capen Hall
State University of New York at Buffalo Buffalo, N.Y.  14260
telephone: (716)645-2811
e-mail:  = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =



-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Swift, Daniel P.
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 10:51 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

Brennan:

I feel your pain. The people that maintain our content are highly decentralized. In order for people to gain access to our CMS, we require them to attend a training. While they do have the ability to choose different headers and potentially create havoc, we give them the foundation for why they shouldn't do that. We stress the importance of maintaining a homogenous site and citing ADA. Every once in a while, we find people using the headers a little too liberally. For the most part, they adhere to the rules. Again, I've found that giving people the "why" reason has helped us tremendously over the years.

Good luck!

Dan Swift
Senior Web Specialist
Enterprise Services
West Chester University
610.738.0589

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Maupin, Brennan Polaris McCaffrey - maupinbp
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 10:23 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

Great point Dan. I agree with you completely, and if I were designing a webpage I would likely do it this way.

My problem is that I am working with a very dispersed group of web content creators for the same base website. When they work with the web design service, they have control of the headings on their own content, but for shared content of the whole website such as footers and headers, those headings are default and preset. I've found that these content creators use their pages *vastly* different from one another, which is another issue haha.

Thanks,
-Brennan

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Swift, Daniel P.
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 9:58 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

Brennan:

I'm a strong proponent of headers always being in order and sequential. In my opinion, if situations arise that cause a disconnect between look and feel and consistency, such as in Glen's example, then the coding and content needs to be reevaluated. That's just my opinion though.

Dan Swift
Senior Web Specialist
Enterprise Services
West Chester University
610.738.0589

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Maupin, Brennan Polaris McCaffrey - maupinbp
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 9:03 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

I've been running into this a lot personally. I also have been focusing on 1.3.1 compliance when I tell people around me that it is an issue.

My problem is that, depending on how your website is made and managed, web content creators will may heading levels based off of their visual appearance rather than page structure.

When I justify heading levels to people I cite guideline 141 which states that "To facilitate navigation and understanding of overall document structure, authors should use headings that are properly nested (e.g., h1 followed by h2, h2 followed by h2 or h3, h3 followed by h3 or h4, etc.)." [1]

An important note that is in line with Glen's comments; their tutorial [2] reinforces that headings should be in order, but states that "In fixed sections of the page, for example in sidebars, the heading ranks should not change depending on the ranks in the content area. In those cases, consistency across pages is more important."

Someone tell me if I am wrong, (I am new to this,) but I typically feel that if someone is using headings out of order for *main content* on a page, as opposed to elements that are consistent to a set of pages (e.g. navigation bar, sidebar, contact info), in such cases the headings should be fixed. Is that in line with what you all practice?

Brennan

[1] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_TR_WCAG20-2DTECHS_G141.html&d=DwICAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=tzjt3_Kd4qvmdydGF10YVA&m=WklMV2ouFiGhIZIXFPHhSgOjq_fQlH2dAdVQeYohSzI&s=MVZjICvhOKpoyrDgb91L8iFc5wlZ-jODXfwIZl8qTac&e=
[2] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.w3.org_WAI_tutorials_page-2Dstructure_headings_&d=DwICAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=tzjt3_Kd4qvmdydGF10YVA&m=WklMV2ouFiGhIZIXFPHhSgOjq_fQlH2dAdVQeYohSzI&s=5QL8uwhYoPRrW8MDIbjh9FHnkKPyuCH_OtWzjsXpXgM&e=


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of glen walker
Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2019 11:17 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

I agree with Patrick on 1.3.1 but be careful that you don't automatically flag an error just because the heading levels aren't in order. 1.3.1 just says you can determine the "structure, and relationships". It doesn't say the headings must be in order (although that's generally the recommendation).

I've seen pages where an H1 is not the first heading on a page (in the DOM) but it made perfect sense so wasn't an error. I believe it had something to do with the H1 in the <main> but the <header> or left <nav> had a sub-heading in it.

And sometimes skipping a level is ok too. If you have a common pattern on your pages where you have H1-H3 on the main part of the page then H4 in the footer, but then you have a page that doesn't have as much info so it only has H1 and H2, the footer should still be H4 so that it's consistent with the other pages. You skipped H3 but that's ok. Again, the "structure, and relationships" are understood so it passes 1.3.1.

Glen

From: Maupin, Brennan Polaris McCaffrey - maupinbp
Date: Mon, Mar 11 2019 9:42AM
Subject: Re: Heading structure
← Previous message | Next message →

Patrick, thank you for the input! I will this technique vs. guideline noted!

As I am typing this it seems like a stupid question, but would you say that this issue could be applicable in 3.2.3 - Consistent Navigation? I know in this section they are talking more about content areas rather than headings, but it seems to me that if you use headings to lead content areas, and you use headings inconsistently in a set of webpages, you could be considered in violation of this guideline. What do you think? Would this also be a harsh interpretation?

Thanks,
-Brennan

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 10:29 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

On 11/03/2019 13:02, Maupin, Brennan Polaris McCaffrey - maupinbp wrote:
[...]
> When I justify heading levels to people I cite guideline 141 which
> states that "To facilitate navigation and understanding of overall
> document structure, authors should use headings that are properly
> nested (e.g., h1 followed by h2, h2 followed by h2 or h3, h3 followed
> by h3 or h4, etc.)." [1]

Noting here that it's not a guideline (which is normative), but a technique (which is informative, so holds no formal weight).

Also, note the use of "should" rather than "must".

Of course, in a formal evaluation, you're free to mark 1.3.1 as a FAIL, but it's a very harsh interpretation I'd say (particularly in situations where a site may have far bigger fish to fry / far more fundamental problems). It's what I sometimes would call a "soft fail", as in "nobody dies because of it, but yes ideally it should really be fixed".

In my opinion, of course.

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke

www.splintered.co.uk | https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_patrickhlauke&d=DwICAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=tzjt3_Kd4qvmdydGF10YVA&m=r-iFzDAKhXZqnV1V0QsO7b8D5SkhrgreY6yfrISmj8g&s=BNmjo9_f8sp-gtOofH7WnQRxTpq5Cflt8HW6HK6lWkw&e=
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__flickr.com_photos_redux_&d=DwICAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=tzjt3_Kd4qvmdydGF10YVA&m=r-iFzDAKhXZqnV1V0QsO7b8D5SkhrgreY6yfrISmj8g&s=o0yxDpbGTlvRlEBuuI2G_op47Tu2nQEwdujP1Gpyi90&e= | https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__redux.deviantart.com&d=DwICAg&c=eLbWYnpnzycBCgmb7vCI4uqNEB9RSjOdn_5nBEmmeq0&r=tzjt3_Kd4qvmdydGF10YVA&m=r-iFzDAKhXZqnV1V0QsO7b8D5SkhrgreY6yfrISmj8g&s=W977-db4kyWZE71l3NeYcdver6RNNiUIn_VSf1r7TzA&e=
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Mon, Mar 11 2019 11:40AM
Subject: Re: Heading structure
← Previous message | Next message →

On 11/03/2019 15:42, Maupin, Brennan Polaris McCaffrey - maupinbp wrote:
> Patrick, thank you for the input! I will this technique vs. guideline noted!
>
> As I am typing this it seems like a stupid question, but would you say that this issue could be applicable in 3.2.3 - Consistent Navigation? I know in this section they are talking more about content areas rather than headings, but it seems to me that if you use headings to lead content areas, and you use headings inconsistently in a set of webpages, you could be considered in violation of this guideline. What do you think? Would this also be a harsh interpretation?

Consistency means "the same way". So, if you happen to skip a heading
level, but do it across all your tested pages, then arguably you're
"consistent".

Also, I do see a danger here that we're trying to find "which SC can I
fail this under", and trying to find some creative interpretation of the
normative wording that would allow us to fail this. That's generally not
a good approach. In an audit, I'd note this as not a failure, but a
suggested best practice/improvement, related to 1.3.1.

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke

www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: Maupin, Brennan Polaris McCaffrey - maupinbp
Date: Mon, Mar 11 2019 11:47AM
Subject: Re: Heading structure
← Previous message | No next message

Thanks so much for your input and advice Patrick. Like I said, I'm very new to the WCAG so I'm learning about this and best practices slowly but surely.

-Brennan

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 1:40 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Heading structure

On 11/03/2019 15:42, Maupin, Brennan Polaris McCaffrey - maupinbp wrote:
> Patrick, thank you for the input! I will this technique vs. guideline noted!
>
> As I am typing this it seems like a stupid question, but would you say that this issue could be applicable in 3.2.3 - Consistent Navigation? I know in this section they are talking more about content areas rather than headings, but it seems to me that if you use headings to lead content areas, and you use headings inconsistently in a set of webpages, you could be considered in violation of this guideline. What do you think? Would this also be a harsh interpretation?

Consistency means "the same way". So, if you happen to skip a heading level, but do it across all your tested pages, then arguably you're "consistent".

Also, I do see a danger here that we're trying to find "which SC can I fail this under", and trying to find some creative interpretation of the normative wording that would allow us to fail this. That's generally not a good approach. In an audit, I'd note this as not a failure, but a suggested best practice/improvement, related to 1.3.1.

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke

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