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Thread: Can the captions page be corrected?
Number of posts in this thread: 6 (In chronological order)
From: Skye
Date: Thu, May 07 2020 10:51AM
Subject: Can the captions page be corrected?
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Hello all - when reviewing the page about captions, transcripts, and
audio descriptions (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://webaim.org/techniques/captions">https://webaim.org/techniques/captions</a>), this
"important" notation was displayed: In order to be fully accessible
to the maximum number of users, web multimedia should include both
synchronized captions AND a descriptive transcript.<br>
<br>
However, per WCAG AA 2.0, multimedia is NOT FULLY ACCESSIBLE unless
it also includes Audio/Video Descriptions (AD). Of course, there
are some instances where ADs are not required like when the existing
audio covers all of the key visual elements like someone reading all
the text on the slide. <br>
<br>
And the AD section verbiage ("not common", "gaining popularity",
etc.) on this page seems to minimize its value and treats this as a
nice-to-have by creating the perception that no one else is doing
it. ADs are not merely "helpful" only if convenient to provide or
something fashionable/popular. They are required by people
challenged with visuals or visual cues just like people who cannot
clearly hear all the audio needs captioning. <br>
<br>
Right now, services like YouTube, Vimeo, etc. do not offer a way to
upload the AD file even when someone takes the time to create it.
However, some people developed a workaround of uploading a second
video with the AD file burned into the copy but then there are no
controls for the viewer to turn it on and off like closed captioning
has. And they have to intentionally make sure the file size, etc.
are different enough to not be blocked by those services for being a
duplicate video. If those services reviewed this page for guidance,
they would likely feel justified to not provide AD options.<br>
<br>
Is it time to update this page to accurately emphasize the need and
required compliance of ADs? <br>
<br>
Skye<br>
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From: Jared Smith
Date: Thu, May 07 2020 11:44AM
Subject: Re: Can the captions page be corrected?
← Previous message | Next message →
> Hello all - when reviewing the page about captions, transcripts, and audio descriptions (https://webaim.org/techniques/captions), this "important" notation was displayed: In order to be fully accessible to the maximum number of users, web multimedia should include both synchronized captions AND a descriptive transcript.
>
> However, per WCAG AA 2.0, multimedia is NOT FULLY ACCESSIBLE unless it also includes Audio/Video Descriptions (AD).
Correct. The sentence you are referring to is within the section on
captions and transcripts. Audio descriptions are covered later in the
page. It wouldn't make sense to discuss the necessity of audio
descriptions before they have even been introduced.
> Of course, there are some instances where ADs are not required like when the existing audio covers all of the key visual elements like someone reading all the text on the slide.
Yes, this is covered at length in the audio descriptions section of the article.
> And the AD section verbiage ("not common", "gaining popularity", etc.) on this page
These are accurate statements.
> seems to minimize its value and treats this as a nice-to-have by creating the perception that no one else is doing it.
The intent is to make it clear that they aren't common, not that they
aren't important - many reading the article have likely never heard
the term "audio description" before.
> ADs are not merely "helpful" only if convenient to provide or something fashionable/popular.
Yes, the article stresses their importance - and encourages better
media production so as to avoid the need for audio description.
> Is it time to update this page to accurately emphasize the need and required compliance of ADs?
I've added some additional content and made some tweaks to better
emphasize this.
Thanks,
Jared
From: L Snider
Date: Thu, May 07 2020 1:28PM
Subject: Re: Can the captions page be corrected?
← Previous message | Next message →
HTML 5 players are the way to go to be more fully accessible. For example,
AblePlayer allows for one video, and a audio description (AD) track,
captions track, text transcripts track and even a sign language track. I
can them tracks but they can be layered or not, depending on the user's
preferences.
I wish YouTube (and don't even get me started on Vimeo) would allow for
this, it would give people more options. Even though they do a bit of AD in
videos that are automatically captioned (AD in the captions). Right now the
only way to do true AD (or sign language, etc.) in things like YouTube is
to make different videos.
Cheers
Lisa
On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 2:45 PM Jared Smith < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > Hello all - when reviewing the page about captions, transcripts, and
> audio descriptions (https://webaim.org/techniques/captions), this
> "important" notation was displayed: In order to be fully accessible to the
> maximum number of users, web multimedia should include both synchronized
> captions AND a descriptive transcript.
> >
> > However, per WCAG AA 2.0, multimedia is NOT FULLY ACCESSIBLE unless it
> also includes Audio/Video Descriptions (AD).
>
> Correct. The sentence you are referring to is within the section on
> captions and transcripts. Audio descriptions are covered later in the
> page. It wouldn't make sense to discuss the necessity of audio
> descriptions before they have even been introduced.
>
> > Of course, there are some instances where ADs are not required like when
> the existing audio covers all of the key visual elements like someone
> reading all the text on the slide.
>
> Yes, this is covered at length in the audio descriptions section of the
> article.
>
> > And the AD section verbiage ("not common", "gaining popularity", etc.)
> on this page
>
> These are accurate statements.
>
> > seems to minimize its value and treats this as a nice-to-have by
> creating the perception that no one else is doing it.
>
> The intent is to make it clear that they aren't common, not that they
> aren't important - many reading the article have likely never heard
> the term "audio description" before.
>
> > ADs are not merely "helpful" only if convenient to provide or something
> fashionable/popular.
>
> Yes, the article stresses their importance - and encourages better
> media production so as to avoid the need for audio description.
>
> > Is it time to update this page to accurately emphasize the need and
> required compliance of ADs?
>
> I've added some additional content and made some tweaks to better
> emphasize this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jared
> > > > >
From: Murphy, Sean
Date: Thu, May 07 2020 6:14PM
Subject: Re: Can the captions page be corrected?
← Previous message | Next message →
Lisa,
Then how does Netflix and Apple streaming do it? Your not running a different video. You can turn off the audio streaming half way through the show if you want. I was under the impression there was a different streaming protocol for audio and captions.
Sean
Sean Murphy | Digital System specialist (Accessibility)
Telstra Digital Channels | Digital Systems
Mobile: 0405 129 739 | Desk: (02) 9866-7917
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of L Snider
Sent: Friday, 8 May 2020 5:28 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Can the captions page be corrected?
[External Email] This email was sent from outside the organisation â be cautious, particularly with links and attachments.
HTML 5 players are the way to go to be more fully accessible. For example, AblePlayer allows for one video, and a audio description (AD) track, captions track, text transcripts track and even a sign language track. I can them tracks but they can be layered or not, depending on the user's preferences.
I wish YouTube (and don't even get me started on Vimeo) would allow for this, it would give people more options. Even though they do a bit of AD in videos that are automatically captioned (AD in the captions). Right now the only way to do true AD (or sign language, etc.) in things like YouTube is to make different videos.
Cheers
Lisa
On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 2:45 PM Jared Smith < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > Hello all - when reviewing the page about captions, transcripts, and
> audio descriptions (https://webaim.org/techniques/captions), this
> "important" notation was displayed: In order to be fully accessible to
> the maximum number of users, web multimedia should include both
> synchronized captions AND a descriptive transcript.
> >
> > However, per WCAG AA 2.0, multimedia is NOT FULLY ACCESSIBLE unless
> > it
> also includes Audio/Video Descriptions (AD).
>
> Correct. The sentence you are referring to is within the section on
> captions and transcripts. Audio descriptions are covered later in the
> page. It wouldn't make sense to discuss the necessity of audio
> descriptions before they have even been introduced.
>
> > Of course, there are some instances where ADs are not required like
> > when
> the existing audio covers all of the key visual elements like someone
> reading all the text on the slide.
>
> Yes, this is covered at length in the audio descriptions section of
> the article.
>
> > And the AD section verbiage ("not common", "gaining popularity",
> > etc.)
> on this page
>
> These are accurate statements.
>
> > seems to minimize its value and treats this as a nice-to-have by
> creating the perception that no one else is doing it.
>
> The intent is to make it clear that they aren't common, not that they
> aren't important - many reading the article have likely never heard
> the term "audio description" before.
>
> > ADs are not merely "helpful" only if convenient to provide or
> > something
> fashionable/popular.
>
> Yes, the article stresses their importance - and encourages better
> media production so as to avoid the need for audio description.
>
> > Is it time to update this page to accurately emphasize the need and
> required compliance of ADs?
>
> I've added some additional content and made some tweaks to better
> emphasize this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jared
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
From: L Snider
Date: Fri, May 08 2020 9:55AM
Subject: Re: Can the captions page be corrected?
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Sean,
Great question. As far as I know, and please others chime in if I am wrong,
it works the same way as a layer that is there for you to turn off and on.
Also the BBC iPlayer has not only audio description you can toggle on and
off but sign language as well (although I have not yet come across a show
that has used the latter, if anyone has, please let me know!). I believe
theirs was home grown and seems to work the same way, as it can be toggled
mid program or scene.
Cheers
Lisa
On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 9:15 PM Murphy, Sean <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Lisa,
>
> Then how does Netflix and Apple streaming do it? Your not running a
> different video. You can turn off the audio streaming half way through the
> show if you want. I was under the impression there was a different
> streaming protocol for audio and captions.
>
> Sean
>
>
>
>
> Sean Murphy | Digital System specialist (Accessibility)
> Telstra Digital Channels | Digital Systems
> Mobile: 0405 129 739 | Desk: (02) 9866-7917
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of L
> Snider
> Sent: Friday, 8 May 2020 5:28 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Can the captions page be corrected?
>
> [External Email] This email was sent from outside the organisation â be
> cautious, particularly with links and attachments.
>
> HTML 5 players are the way to go to be more fully accessible. For example,
> AblePlayer allows for one video, and a audio description (AD) track,
> captions track, text transcripts track and even a sign language track. I
> can them tracks but they can be layered or not, depending on the user's
> preferences.
>
> I wish YouTube (and don't even get me started on Vimeo) would allow for
> this, it would give people more options. Even though they do a bit of AD in
> videos that are automatically captioned (AD in the captions). Right now the
> only way to do true AD (or sign language, etc.) in things like YouTube is
> to make different videos.
>
> Cheers
>
> Lisa
>
> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 2:45 PM Jared Smith < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > > Hello all - when reviewing the page about captions, transcripts, and
> > audio descriptions (https://webaim.org/techniques/captions), this
> > "important" notation was displayed: In order to be fully accessible to
> > the maximum number of users, web multimedia should include both
> > synchronized captions AND a descriptive transcript.
> > >
> > > However, per WCAG AA 2.0, multimedia is NOT FULLY ACCESSIBLE unless
> > > it
> > also includes Audio/Video Descriptions (AD).
> >
> > Correct. The sentence you are referring to is within the section on
> > captions and transcripts. Audio descriptions are covered later in the
> > page. It wouldn't make sense to discuss the necessity of audio
> > descriptions before they have even been introduced.
> >
> > > Of course, there are some instances where ADs are not required like
> > > when
> > the existing audio covers all of the key visual elements like someone
> > reading all the text on the slide.
> >
> > Yes, this is covered at length in the audio descriptions section of
> > the article.
> >
> > > And the AD section verbiage ("not common", "gaining popularity",
> > > etc.)
> > on this page
> >
> > These are accurate statements.
> >
> > > seems to minimize its value and treats this as a nice-to-have by
> > creating the perception that no one else is doing it.
> >
> > The intent is to make it clear that they aren't common, not that they
> > aren't important - many reading the article have likely never heard
> > the term "audio description" before.
> >
> > > ADs are not merely "helpful" only if convenient to provide or
> > > something
> > fashionable/popular.
> >
> > Yes, the article stresses their importance - and encourages better
> > media production so as to avoid the need for audio description.
> >
> > > Is it time to update this page to accurately emphasize the need and
> > required compliance of ADs?
> >
> > I've added some additional content and made some tweaks to better
> > emphasize this.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jared
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
From: Skye
Date: Sat, May 09 2020 9:35AM
Subject: Re: Can the captions page be corrected?
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Hi Jared - thanks for the text update to AD section on WebAIM to
better reflect it as a need and less as an option. <br>
<br>
I understand not referencing something that has not been introduced
but I don't understand why the "important" notation must be placed
mid-page just to justify an inaccurate phrasing - only captions and
transcripts are needed to meet the definition of being fully
accessible. An all-inclusive statement must be inaccurate no matter
where it is placed. If you want a notation after each section, you
could clarify that one does not replace the other so both are needed
without the guidance that a11y is fully met. Why not move the
"important" notation to after ADs to accurately notate that all
three (captions, transcripts, and audio descriptions) are required
for any multimedia to be considered fully accessible? <br>
<br>
Thanks!<br>
<br>
Skye<br>
<div class="replaced-blockquote" style="border:none !important;
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margin-top:0px !important; padding-left:0px !important;
padding-right:0px !important" cite="mid: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = " type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 11:44:55 -0600
From: Jared Smith <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a>
To: WebAIM Discussion List <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ">< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ></a>
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Can the captions page be corrected?
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="border:none !important;
margin-left:0px !important; margin-right:0px !important;
margin-top:0px !important; padding-left:0px !important;
padding-right:0px !important">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Hello all - when reviewing the page about captions, transcripts, and audio descriptions (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://webaim.org/techniques/captions">https://webaim.org/techniques/captions</a>), this "important" notation was displayed: In order to be fully accessible to the maximum number of users, web multimedia should include both synchronized captions AND a descriptive transcript.
However, per WCAG AA 2.0, multimedia is NOT FULLY ACCESSIBLE unless it also includes Audio/Video Descriptions (AD).
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Correct. The sentence you are referring to is within the section on
captions and transcripts. Audio descriptions are covered later in the
page. It wouldn't make sense to discuss the necessity of audio
descriptions before they have even been introduced.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="border:none !important;
margin-left:0px !important; margin-right:0px !important;
margin-top:0px !important; padding-left:0px !important;
padding-right:0px !important">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Of course, there are some instances where ADs are not required like when the existing audio covers all of the key visual elements like someone reading all the text on the slide.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Yes, this is covered at length in the audio descriptions section of the article.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="border:none !important;
margin-left:0px !important; margin-right:0px !important;
margin-top:0px !important; padding-left:0px !important;
padding-right:0px !important">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">And the AD section verbiage ("not common", "gaining popularity", etc.) on this page
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">These are accurate statements.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="border:none !important;
margin-left:0px !important; margin-right:0px !important;
margin-top:0px !important; padding-left:0px !important;
padding-right:0px !important">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">seems to minimize its value and treats this as a nice-to-have by creating the perception that no one else is doing it.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">The intent is to make it clear that they aren't common, not that they
aren't important - many reading the article have likely never heard
the term "audio description" before.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="border:none !important;
margin-left:0px !important; margin-right:0px !important;
margin-top:0px !important; padding-left:0px !important;
padding-right:0px !important">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">ADs are not merely "helpful" only if convenient to provide or something fashionable/popular.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Yes, the article stresses their importance - and encourages better
media production so as to avoid the need for audio description.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="border:none !important;
margin-left:0px !important; margin-right:0px !important;
margin-top:0px !important; padding-left:0px !important;
padding-right:0px !important">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Is it time to update this page to accurately emphasize the need and required compliance of ADs?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I've added some additional content and made some tweaks to better
emphasize this.
Thanks,
Jared
</pre>
</div>
<br>
</body>
</html>