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Re: Dialog boxeson NVDA

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From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Feb 8, 2017 11:48AM

NVDA's behavior, to automatically go into application mode when focus
is moved into content with role="dialog" has often been discussed.
As far as I know NVDA is the only screen reader to go into application
mode when focus is moved to a dialog.

The ARIA 1.1 spec for the dialog role:
http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#dialog
has actually added an explicit note
"In the description of this role, the term "web application" does not
refer to the application role, which specifies specific assistive
technology behaviors."
that seems to indicate that screen readers should not switch to forms mode.

Looking at NVDA's Github, particularly issue 5826
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/5826
confirms my suspicion that the NVDA developers have decided that NVDA
should go into application mode in dialogs and are not budging from
that stance.

I personally disagree with that decision, I think it presents a much
worse experience for the users, but these are awesome guys, they have
the data, and it is their software (and NVDA is a truly amazing screen
reader).

But I do not advice people to hack around this by using
role="document" inside dialogs because of the way one screen reader
vendor interprets the spec.
If it causes problems for the users, the users should talk directly to
that vendor.
The problem can be solved either by the vendor changing the way the
software operates, or the users get better training on how to set
their own preferences or switch between modes.
The developer should only be concerned with using the right HTML
elements or, if not possible, ARIA roles and attributes for coding the
content.
When they start implementing hacks for one screen reader it can
present issues in other screen readers.
Cheers
-B


On 2/8/17, Jonathan Avila < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> As I said role="dialog" takes NVDA user to focus mode directly. Developer
>> can remove the role dialog and replace with role="document". With this
>> NVDA does not take the user to focus mode, it will stay in browse mode.
>
> I would generally not recommend using role of document instead of dialog or
> use it within dialogs. Role of region could be used with an aria-label or
> aria-labelledby as an alternative if dialog is misbehaving with some
> assistive technology.
>
> Jonathan
>
> Jonathan Avila
> Chief Accessibility Officer
> SSB BART Group
> <EMAIL REMOVED>
> 703.637.8957 (Office)
>
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>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf
> Of Rakesh P
> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 7:48 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Dialog boxeson NVDA
>
> Yes Surendra, As I said role="dialog" takes NVDA user to focus mode
> directly. Developer can remove the role dialog and replace with
> role="document". With this NVDA does not take the user to focus mode, it
> will stay in browse mode.
>
> If you are talking about the screen reader reading hidden / invisible text,,
> with the use of aria-hidden property the hidden content can be made ignorred
> by screen reader. aria-hidden="true".
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 3:31 PM, Surendra < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> wrote:
>
>> Now,I was just wondering if there's any fix for that.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
>> Behalf Of Rakesh P
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 2:54 PM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Dialog boxeson NVDA
>>
>> If screen reader is reading some hidden text while navigating through
>> the modal that does not make sense to the user, I will definitely
>> consider as an accessibility violation.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Surendra
>> < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Thank you, Rakesh!
>> >
>> > I was taking it as an accessibility bug, because NVDA reads A hidden
>> > text 'Section' in case navigating through the modal dialog with Tab
>> > key. Isn't it an unwanted announcement?
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
>> > Behalf Of Rakesh P
>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 1:45 PM
>> > To: WebAIM Discussion List
>> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Dialog boxeson NVDA
>> >
>> > Hi Surendra,
>> >
>> >
>> > That is not an accessibility bug. Since it is a modal dialog
>> > developers
>> use
>> > role dialog. This causes NVDA to shift to the focus mode.
>> >
>> > It is expected that user need to press insert + space bar to shift
>> > back
>> to
>> > browse mode and read the content.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 12:56 PM, Surendra
>> > < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi all,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I hope many of us have been using NVDA for long. I do not use it
>> > > very
>> > often
>> > > personally, unless there arises any serious need. Like in my
>> > > office, we have to do testing in all possible scenarios on all
>> > > possible platforms using
>> > all
>> > > screen readers including NVDA. Now, many a times, I get stuck on
>> websites
>> > > with dialog boxes and pop-ups. Suppose there is a 'Table of Contents'
>> > > button
>> > > on a page, hitting of which brings up a dialog box having table
>> contents.
>> > > But NVDA would not read the same until Insert+SpaceBar is pressed.
>> > Should I
>> > > treat this as an accessibility issue? Because, I've seen some
>> > > websites wherein focus directly moves to the rellavant area and we
>> > > can easily navigate through the page with arrow keys, as we do in
>> > > browse mode.
>> > >
>> > > >> > > >> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> > > >> > >
>> > >> > >> > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> > >> >
>> > >> > >> > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> > >> >
>> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >>
>> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >>
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >


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