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Re: Dialog boxeson NVDA

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From: Jonathan Whiting
Date: Feb 9, 2017 3:36PM

I also agree with Birkir and Rakesh.

Last night I found an open issue on NVDA's Github and commented (
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/4493). I suggested that NVDA would
better align with ARIA 1.1 if role="dialog" did not trigger focus mode.
James Teh replied, saying that this recommended change is on their 2017
roadmap. He also expressed some very valid concerns and frustrations.

Looks like a change is on the horizon!
Jonathan

Jonathan Whiting
WebAIM.org



On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 9:20 PM, Rakesh P < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> I agree with you Birkir. I want to say that role document will push the
> user to browse mode but my intention is not to recommend it. As Jonathen
> mentioned aria-label or aria-labelledby can be used to announce the content
> of the modal but if the modal contains lengthy content with headings,
> tables etc user will miss the scemantics. I advice the users are given an
> option to change to browse mode and read the content.
>
> May be NVDA one day decides to take the users to forms mode when accessing
> a modal .
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 12:18 AM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
> > NVDA's behavior, to automatically go into application mode when focus
> > is moved into content with role="dialog" has often been discussed.
> > As far as I know NVDA is the only screen reader to go into application
> > mode when focus is moved to a dialog.
> >
> > The ARIA 1.1 spec for the dialog role:
> > http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#dialog
> > has actually added an explicit note
> > "In the description of this role, the term "web application" does not
> > refer to the application role, which specifies specific assistive
> > technology behaviors."
> > that seems to indicate that screen readers should not switch to forms
> mode.
> >
> > Looking at NVDA's Github, particularly issue 5826
> > https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/5826
> > confirms my suspicion that the NVDA developers have decided that NVDA
> > should go into application mode in dialogs and are not budging from
> > that stance.
> >
> > I personally disagree with that decision, I think it presents a much
> > worse experience for the users, but these are awesome guys, they have
> > the data, and it is their software (and NVDA is a truly amazing screen
> > reader).
> >
> > But I do not advice people to hack around this by using
> > role="document" inside dialogs because of the way one screen reader
> > vendor interprets the spec.
> > If it causes problems for the users, the users should talk directly to
> > that vendor.
> > The problem can be solved either by the vendor changing the way the
> > software operates, or the users get better training on how to set
> > their own preferences or switch between modes.
> > The developer should only be concerned with using the right HTML
> > elements or, if not possible, ARIA roles and attributes for coding the
> > content.
> > When they start implementing hacks for one screen reader it can
> > present issues in other screen readers.
> > Cheers
> > -B
> >
> >
> > On 2/8/17, Jonathan Avila < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> > >> As I said role="dialog" takes NVDA user to focus mode directly.
> > Developer
> > >> can remove the role dialog and replace with role="document". With this
> > >> NVDA does not take the user to focus mode, it will stay in browse
> mode.
> > >
> > > I would generally not recommend using role of document instead of
> dialog
> > or
> > > use it within dialogs. Role of region could be used with an aria-label
> > or
> > > aria-labelledby as an alternative if dialog is misbehaving with some
> > > assistive technology.
> > >
> > > Jonathan
> > >
> > > Jonathan Avila
> > > Chief Accessibility Officer
> > > SSB BART Group
> > > <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > > 703.637.8957 (Office)
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> > Behalf
> > > Of Rakesh P
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 7:48 AM
> > > To: WebAIM Discussion List
> > > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Dialog boxeson NVDA
> > >
> > > Yes Surendra, As I said role="dialog" takes NVDA user to focus mode
> > > directly. Developer can remove the role dialog and replace with
> > > role="document". With this NVDA does not take the user to focus mode,
> it
> > > will stay in browse mode.
> > >
> > > If you are talking about the screen reader reading hidden / invisible
> > text,,
> > > with the use of aria-hidden property the hidden content can be made
> > ignorred
> > > by screen reader. aria-hidden="true".
> > >
> > > Hope this helps.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 3:31 PM, Surendra < <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Now,I was just wondering if there's any fix for that.
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> > >> Behalf Of Rakesh P
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 2:54 PM
> > >> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> > >> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Dialog boxeson NVDA
> > >>
> > >> If screen reader is reading some hidden text while navigating through
> > >> the modal that does not make sense to the user, I will definitely
> > >> consider as an accessibility violation.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Surendra
> > >> < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Thank you, Rakesh!
> > >> >
> > >> > I was taking it as an accessibility bug, because NVDA reads A hidden
> > >> > text 'Section' in case navigating through the modal dialog with Tab
> > >> > key. Isn't it an unwanted announcement?
> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> > >> > Behalf Of Rakesh P
> > >> > Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 1:45 PM
> > >> > To: WebAIM Discussion List
> > >> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Dialog boxeson NVDA
> > >> >
> > >> > Hi Surendra,
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > That is not an accessibility bug. Since it is a modal dialog
> > >> > developers
> > >> use
> > >> > role dialog. This causes NVDA to shift to the focus mode.
> > >> >
> > >> > It is expected that user need to press insert + space bar to shift
> > >> > back
> > >> to
> > >> > browse mode and read the content.
> > >> >
> > >> > On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 12:56 PM, Surendra
> > >> > < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Hi all,
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I hope many of us have been using NVDA for long. I do not use it
> > >> > > very
> > >> > often
> > >> > > personally, unless there arises any serious need. Like in my
> > >> > > office, we have to do testing in all possible scenarios on all
> > >> > > possible platforms using
> > >> > all
> > >> > > screen readers including NVDA. Now, many a times, I get stuck on
> > >> websites
> > >> > > with dialog boxes and pop-ups. Suppose there is a 'Table of
> > Contents'
> > >> > > button
> > >> > > on a page, hitting of which brings up a dialog box having table
> > >> contents.
> > >> > > But NVDA would not read the same until Insert+SpaceBar is pressed.
> > >> > Should I
> > >> > > treat this as an accessibility issue? Because, I've seen some
> > >> > > websites wherein focus directly moves to the rellavant area and we
> > >> > > can easily navigate through the page with arrow keys, as we do in
> > >> > > browse mode.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > >> > > > > >> > >
> > >> > > > >> > > > >> > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > >> > > > >> >
> > >> > > > >> > > > >> > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > >> > > > >> >
> > >> > > >> > > >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> > > >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > >> > > >>
> > > > > > > > archives at
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >