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Re: Trying to find middle ground with a developer

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From: Swift, Daniel P.
Date: Aug 10, 2017 9:15AM

I'm jumping in a little late on this -- is the alt text even needed? In this situation, I would interpret this as "decorative" which means that the empty alt attribute is sufficient ... right?

Dan Swift
Senior Web Specialist
Enterprise Services
West Chester University
610.738.0589

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Sarah Ferguson
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 12:08 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Trying to find middle ground with a developer

Hi Ben,

I can't promise she wasn't in the middle of working on this when I captured it, but here:

<div class="captioned-image-wrap">
<figure class="captioned-image left">

<img alt="Students in hallway of Schneider Building"
src="../../images/upperfordiversitypage.jpg" width="479"/>
<figcaption>
<a href="../../nrcpd/index.html">
Students at Heller are conversing in the hallway
</a>
</figcaption>
</figure>

Sarah Ferguson
Web Accessibility Specialist
Department of Digital Communications
Brandeis University *|* 781.736.4259
www.brandeis.edu/web-accessibility


On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Ben Regis < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> Hi Sarah
>
> The double alt reading just seems wrong then - can you copy the bit of
> HTML she's used for the figure and image?
>
> Kind regards
>
> Ben
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> Behalf Of Sarah Ferguson
> Sent: 08 August 2017 16:49
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Trying to find middle ground with a developer
>
> Hi Ben,
>
> She said that the site that reads better (in my opinion) throws HTML
> code flags. That site is still in development, as well. While she
> isn't willing to use that code as a solution, she is at least willing
> to keep tinkering, so at least there is that.
>
> I haven't tried the escape key, I will see if that has an effect. thanks.
>
> Regarding the caption, no the caption can be different. The alt text
> reads as a description of the whole (called figure), then again (same
> alt text) for the image. Then the caption will read.
>
> Sarah
>
> Sarah Ferguson
> Web Accessibility Specialist
> Department of Digital Communications
> Brandeis University *|* 781.736.4259
> www.brandeis.edu/web-accessibility
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Ben Regis < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
> > Hi Sarah
> >
> > I'm not a fan of big menus for any site and it sounds like it's far
> > too difficult to navigate. You said about another of your sites
> > reading the correct number of items and that "She says that the code
> > in that site is incorrect, so she won't follow it." - can you let me
> > know what the address of that site is - it would be interesting to
> > know what she thought was wrong with it.
> >
> > According to http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/#menu the
> > Escape key should allow you to exit the menu - at least that way the
> > user wouldn't need to navigate back out again.
> >
> > With the image issue - are you saying that you can't enter separate
> > text for the caption? So the caption will just use whatever is set
> > for
> alt text?
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> > Behalf Of Sarah Ferguson
> > Sent: 08 August 2017 15:51
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Trying to find middle ground with a developer
> >
> > Sorry, Ben. It's not live and is on a secured server.
> >
> > Sarah Ferguson
> > Web Accessibility Specialist
> > Department of Digital Communications Brandeis University *|*
> > 781.736.4259 www.brandeis.edu/web-accessibility
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Ben Regis < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Sarah
> > >
> > > Is it possible to see the website?
> > >
> > > Kind regards
> > >
> > > Ben
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
> > > On Behalf Of Sarah Ferguson
> > > Sent: 07 August 2017 20:44
> > > To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > > Subject: [WebAIM] Trying to find middle ground with a developer
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > We have an outside developer working on one of our sites. I've
> > > done a review of the site and she's done a few rounds of fixes. We
> > > have a couple of sticking points.
> > >
> > > **Hamburger menu**
> > >
> > > The desktop site has a hamburger menu. VoiceOver is reading the
> > > menu as "*Navigation
> > > 3 items*." The open menu actually has 3 columns with 28 items total.
> > > You cannot currently navigate column to column, nor are the
> > > columns ever differentiated by Voiceover. It's read as one long
> > > list. To me, the user hears 3 items and expects 3 items. Getting
> > > 28 items at this point is confusing. Furthermore, I feel that
> > > someone having to backup through 28 items to close a menu with the
> > > toggle that opened it, is
> > asking a lot.
> > >
> > > I would be happy if it either announced 28 items and there was a
> > > way to close the menu without backing all the way up, or if the
> > > user could navigate column to column and drill into each column
> > > (at which point I feel VO should also read the correct number of
> > > items in each
> column).
> > > I've given her another of our sites that reads the actual number
> > > of items. It is also much shorter than 28 items, so closing the
> > > menu is less of an issue. She says that the code in that site is
> > > incorrect, so
> > she won't follow it.
> > >
> > > The main navigation has a similar issue. It is reading as 1 item
> > > (being 1 list with several items).
> > >
> > > *Do you think it is ok to have the navigation menus read the
> > > number of lists instead of the number of items? Any ideas for
> > > alternate solutions or examples of sites you feel handle hamburger
> > > menu very
> > > well?*
> > >
> > > ****
> > >
> > > **Image and caption**
> > >
> > > The second issue is the way she coded images with captions. Right
> > > now, she has coded the image and caption as a figure in HTML5.
> > > This is causing the "figure" (the image and caption together) to
> > > read the alt text, followed by hearing the alt text again for the
> > > image itself and then hearing the caption. I find this redundant.
> > > She argues it is better, because this tagging method identifies
> > > the caption as a caption and not just text. It links the image and
> > > caption together. I can see that point, but the redundancy still
> bothers me.
> > >
> > > *What are your thoughts? Do you know of any alternate solutions
> > > for making the caption and image be linked and label the caption
> > > as such, without the alt text reading twice?*
> > >
> > > ****
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > > Sarah
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sarah
> > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
> >
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
>
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >