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Re: Question regarding live caption

for

From:
Date: May 27, 2021 8:39AM

Hi,

I talked to the person who mentioned to us that she would like to see
additional support and accessible captions for the live event. She said
that it would be exhausting for her to listen to different speakers for
three hours. Sighted users would be able to use visual cues like the
presentation, which obviously isn't available to blind people. So one
way to get around this is to provide accessible presentations in advance
of the presentations.

Though I totally understand her point, this hasn't that much to do with
following the WCAG. It is an example where accessibility standards don't
help much, because it might be accessible according to WCAG, but still
unusable for some.

I also believe that web platforms of captioning providers should be
fully accessible. Because if you've ever listend to somebody's
screenreader, this is totally different in terms of speed than any
presenter. Sighted people might relax during a presentation, but still
be able to re-enter by using the visual presentation on screen, catching
up with what was said. A blind person is only able to listen actively,
when she/he is inattentive, she/he looses some of the content. Having an
accessible transcript, blind people would be able to catch up with what
was said using their screenreader with the transcript.

Again, I'm talking about real-time captioning of a live event, not a
recorded video. And I also can only imagine what would be helpful for
deaf-blind people.

Best

    Björn

Am 27.05.21 um 16:26 schrieb Morin, Gary (NIH/NCI) [E]:
>
> If the captioning is a text representation of the spoken word, no more
> no less, what is the value of them to a person who is blind or
> partially sighed and already listening to the presentation?  Wouldn't
> it be redundant to hear both the speaker and a ScreenReader-read
> rendition of the captioning.
>
> If the person is DeafBlind, then the web version of the captioning (as
> opposed to the captions integrated into a platform such as Adobe
> Connect, WebEx, or Zoom) should be accessible to someone then using,
> say, a refreshable braille reader.  But that is a good question for
> those captioning providers and the web platforms (e.g., StreamText and
> CaptionedText) – are those web sites WCAG-conformant?
>
> Although a recorded video could have an accompanying DESCRIPTIVE
> transcript, one which includes both the captioning and the
> audio-description, in live time, wouldn't a person need to request a
> reasonable accommodation – in addition to viewing/reading the
> captioning, I would like a real-time describer?
>
> Gary
>
> https://streamtext.net/ <https://streamtext.net/>
>
> https://www.captionedtext.com/client/event.aspx
> <https://www.captionedtext.com/client/event.aspx>
>
> https://www.captionedtext.com/client/event.aspx?EventIDG91705&CustomerID21
> <https://www.captionedtext.com/client/event.aspx?EventIDG91705&CustomerID21>
>
> https://www.streamtext.net/player?event­A
> <https://www.streamtext.net/player?event­A>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christine Hogenkamp < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 3:00 PM
> To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question regarding live caption
>
> Hi Björn,
>
> When you say "Their web-based software allows to change the font, font
> size, colour etc." first thing I think of is whether the captioning
> software works similarly to one of those overlay website plugins type
> interfaces that is supposed to automatically add accessibility
> functionality to the existing page regardless of the original code.
> Because if that's the case, then that could be the cause of your
> user's issues, that the end result is just not very useable/accessible
> if it's being auto-generated.
>
> Do you have a link handy to the captioned video page in question?
>
> *x*
>
> *Christine Hogenkamp (She, Her)*
>
> Front-end Developer
>
> CONTEXT CREATIVE
>
> 317 ADELAIDE ST. W., #500  |  TORONTO, ON CANADA  |  M5V 1P9
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> <https://maps.google.com/?q17+ADELAIDE+ST.+W.,+%23500%C2%A0+%7C%C2%A0+TORONTO,+ON+CANADA%C2%A0+%7C%C2%A0+M5V+1P9&entry=gmail&source=g>>
>
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>
> On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 2:00 PM < <EMAIL REMOVED>
> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >>
>
> wrote:
>
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>
> > From: "Björn Fisseler" < <EMAIL REMOVED>
> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >>
>
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED>
> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >>
>
> > Cc:
>
> > Bcc:
>
> > Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 18:32:35 +0200
>
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question regarding live caption Okay, thanks. I
>
> > think I didn't make my point clear enough. The question wasn't about
>
> > who benefits from captions, but whether the captions itself would have
>
> > to be technically fully accessible.
>
> >
>
> > The participant who identified as being blind said that the captions,
>
> > who were presented to her using a web browser, weren't accessible to
>
> > her using a screen reader. We asked a service provider to do the live
>
> > captioning and they used their own specific web-based software. Their
>
> > regular clients are people who are deaf or hard of hearing. Their
>
> > web-based software allows to change the font, font size, colour etc.
>
> > Text is presented as plain text using HTML paragraphs. But for
>
> > example, you cannot change the reading order (text scrolls from bottom
>
> > to top), which can cause problems in case you use a screen reader.
>
> > Also the content refreshed regularly, which could be announced to
> users of screen readers.
>
> >
>
> > So I think we should do some more techical testing on these. But it
>
> > also depends on how proficient the screen reader users are in
>
> > operating their software.
>
> >
>
> > Regards
>
> >
>
> >     Björn
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Am Di., 25. Mai 2021 um 18:26 Uhr schrieb Lucy GRECO
>
> > < <EMAIL REMOVED>
>
> > >:
>
> >
>
> > > Hello
>
> > >
>
> > > I WOULD BE SUPPRIZED TO FIND THE CAPTION WEB SITE NOT ACCESSABLE.
>
> > > THAT STRIKES ME AS  NOT LIKELY HAVE YOU CHECKED THAT WEB SITE YOUR
>
> > > SELF MAYBE
>
> > IT
>
> > > JUST NEEDED  BETTTER DIRECTIONS FOR A SCREENREADER  USER AFTER ALL
>
> > CAPTIONS
>
> > > ARE TEXT  AREN'T THEY
>
> > > Lucia Greco
>
> > > Web Accessibility Evangelist
>
> > > IST - Architecture, Platforms, and Integration University of
>
> > > California, Berkeley
>
> > > (510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
>
> > > http://webaccess.berkeley.edu <http://webaccess.berkeley.edu>;
>
> > > Follow me on twitter @accessaces
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 9:17 AM Polling, Neil <
>
> > <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>
> > > >
>
> > > wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > > Additionally captions can be used in such a way that they aren't
>
> > > > just showing what people are saying, but also include descriptions
>
> > > > of what
>
> > is
>
> > > > happening.  So if there are captions that are providing context
>
> > > > that
>
> > > would
>
> > > > normally be provided through vision, if those captions aren't also
>
> > > > in
>
> > > some
>
> > > > way being read aloud then the overall experience would be
>
> > > > inaccessible
>
> > to
>
> > > > those with vision impairments.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Neil Polling | Quality Assurance Analyst | Broadridge Financial
>
> > > Solutions,
>
> > > > Inc.
>
> > > > 525 S. Lake Avenue | Duluth, MN | USA | p 218-464-5344 | m
>
> > > > 218-409-3019
>
> > > >
>
> > > > broadridge.com
>
> > > >
>
> > > > -----Original Message-----
>
> > > > From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED>
> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >> On
>
> > > > Behalf Of Andrews, David B (DEED)
>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 10:55 AM
>
> > > > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED>
> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >>
>
> > > > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question regarding live caption
>
> > > >
>
> > > > EXTERNAL EMAIL
>
> > > >
>
> > > > There are others who may also benefit from captions, people
>
> > > > learning English, people in a noisy environment, etc.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > When done correctly, accessibility benefits everybody!
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Dave
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > -----Original Message-----
>
> > > > From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED>
> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >> On
>
> > > > Behalf Of Björn Fisseler
>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 10:51 AM
>
> > > > To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>
> > > > Subject: [WebAIM] Question regarding live caption
>
> > > >
>
> > > > This message may be from an external email source.
>
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>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
> > > >
>
> > > > Dear list members,
>
> > > >
>
> > > > last week we ran a live event for the GAAD 2021. Live captioning
>
> > > > was provided for the whole event using a separate website due to
>
> > > > technical restriction.
>
> > > > One participant, who identified as being blind, later complained
>
> > > > that
>
> > the
>
> > > > captions weren't accessible to her.
>
> > > > My question is, if we follow the WCAG 2.1, would we have to make
>
> > > > the captions fully accessible to all? I always thought of captions
>
> > > > as
>
> > success
>
> > > > criterion for people who are deaf or hard of hearing (see Success
>
> > > Criterion
>
> > > > 1.2.4
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook
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> > .com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.w3.org*2FWAI*2FWCAG21*2FUnderstanding*2Fca
>
> > ptions-live.html&amp;data*7C01*7Cdavid.b.andrews*40state.mn.us*7Cb6
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>
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>
> > 3hNIEcsmWVF_20YrDEVtcBa_pa_qxawDJIK9BR1TRRUFzhw$
>
> > > > <
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> >
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>
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>
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>
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>
> > IYIvhHqF31ue86s2zqlMEhLIkhTFSy6I3cc4*3D&amp;reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJ
>
> > SUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!dDE4t2rFuQTKrsqJ5GWKcxz
>
> > 3hNIEcsmWVF_20YrDEVtcBa_pa_qxawDJIK9BR1TRRUFzhw$
>
> > > > >).
>
> > > > Though, while there certainly are people who are deaf-blind, I
>
> > > > would
>
> > not
>
> > > > consider captions an option for blind users. But please correct me
>
> > > > if
>
> > I'm
>
> > > > mistaken.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Kind regards
>
> > > >
>
> > > >   Björn
>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> >
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> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>
> > From: "Patrick H. Lauke" < <EMAIL REMOVED>
> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >>
>
> > To: <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>
> > Cc:
>
> > Bcc:
>
> > Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 18:10:19 +0100
>
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question regarding live caption On 25/05/2021
>
> > 16:51, Björn Fisseler wrote:
>
> > > Dear list members,
>
> > >
>
> > > last week we ran a live event for the GAAD 2021. Live captioning was
>
> > > provided for the whole event using a separate website due to
>
> > > technical restriction.
>
> > > One participant, who identified as being blind, later complained
>
> > > that the captions weren't accessible to her.
>
> > > My question is, if we follow the WCAG 2.1, would we have to make the
>
> > > captions fully accessible to all? I always thought of captions as
>
> > > success criterion for people who are deaf or hard of hearing (see
>
> > > Success
>
> > Criterion
>
> > > 1.2.4
> https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Understanding/captions-live.html
> <https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Understanding/captions-live.html>
>
> > > <https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Understanding/captions-live.html
> <https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Understanding/captions-live.html>>).
>
> > > Though, while there certainly are people who are deaf-blind, I would
>
> > > not consider captions an option for blind users. But please correct
>
> > > me if I'm mistaken.
>
> >
>
> > I agree, under WCAG, captions are aimed primarily at
>
> > hard-of-hearing/deaf users. The assumption being that blind users will
>
> > be able to hear the audio and not require captions (and if anything
>
> > happens visually that's not conveyed by audio, that's where the
>
> > requirement for audio description comes in).
>
> >
>
> > So, technically, even if you had a video with burnt-in open captions
>
> > (i.e. they're part of the video track itself, not something separate
>
> > like a text container that gets dynamically updated or anything), that
>
> > satisfies the captioning requirement for WCAG.
>
> >
>
> > Deaf-blind users would most likely best be served with a media
>
> > alternative - a full transcript that includes a written version of all
>
> > audio, important/informative audio cues, as well as a description of
>
> > any visual-only information that was in the video.
>
> >
>
> > IMO, of course.
>
> >
>
> > P
>
> > --
>
> > Patrick H. Lauke
>
> >
>
> > https://www.splintered.co.uk/ <https://www.splintered.co.uk/> |
> https://github.com/patrickhlauke <https://github.com/patrickhlauke>
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>
> >
>
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