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Re: Whether or not to disable formsubmitbutton

for

From: Geethavani.Shamanna
Date: Dec 18, 2023 7:25AM

I agree. As a screen reader user myself, I have come across instances where I could access the disabled button on the page, but it wasn't available in the tab order. Also instances where aria-required had been used to mark required fields, leaving sighted users at a disadvantage. It is incredible how innovative developers get. I recently came across a website where required icons had been added to the tab order preceding the form fields. Besides having redundant icons in the tab order, it wasn't clear whether the field preceding the icon was a required one or the field following it.


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of <EMAIL REMOVED>
Sent: 18 December 2023 13:14
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [EXTERNAL] Re: Whether or not to disable form submit button

External email: if the sender or content looks suspicious, please click the Report Message icon, or forward it to report-phishing

Yes. However, this does not mean you should automatically use ARIA. Take the required state for example.. There are non-ARIA ways to indicate that. You could make the required indicator (perhaps an *, the word "required", or an image with alt text) part of the accessible name of the element. If you are using a native HTML element that is interactive, you might use the required keyword.

I do want to note something about the disabled state just in case no one has mentioned this. Screen reader users can still access controls in a disabled state even if they are not part of the tab order. Unlike people who can see but may only use the keyboard to interact with a system, a screen reader does allow the user to access all non-interactive elements that are visible on the screen. There are a few exceptions where a screen reader user might not be able to access content that is visible, but just using the disabled keyword on an element won't accomplish that alone.

Thanks!
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Kavein Thran
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2023 5:58 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [EXTERNAL] Re: Whether or not to disable form submit button

re: the required state is not clearly indicated, there's an awesome discussion on github

Request for clarification: does Name, Role, Value include static states like "required"? #3523
https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/3523

On 12/18/23, Geethavani.Shamanna < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> There are two scenarios that I have come across with regard to
> disabled
> buttons:
> 1. The disabled button is accessible to mouse users, but is not
> keyboard focusable, not in the tab order and not accessible to screen reader users.
> 2. The disabled button is keyboard-focusable and is in the tab order,
> but not accessible to screen reader users. In this instance we
> recommend the use of the aria-disabled attribute.
>
> Considering that required fields are not always clearly indicated in
> forms, validating individual fields might be a better solution than
> disabling the Submit button.
>
> Geetha
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Sent: 18 December 2023 06:06
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [EXTERNAL] Re: Whether or not to disable form
> submit button
>
> External email: if the sender or content looks suspicious, please
> click the Report Message icon, or forward it to report-phishing
>
> Correct, this is why in the org I work in we encourage designers to
> hide the submit button until the conditions of the forms are ready to
> submit or don't disable it and handle via error management.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> jp Jamous
> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2023 8:50 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [EXTERNAL] Re: Whether or not to disable form
> submit button
>
> 1. Most developers use the disabled attribute and not aria-disabled.
> It is important to keep an eye on this one.
> 2. Aria-disabled is rendered through the accessibility tree, which
> makes it discoverable by assistive technologies. What would happen to
> keyboard only users?
> I am not trying to argue with anyone on the list. I just like to
> remind folks that WCAG does not only focus on users with assistive technologies.
> There are many users that fall under the cognitive and motor categories.
> Many of them do not use Ats. It is important for us as accessibility
> professionals not to fall in the same trap like UX Designers. We
>
> The approach I mentioned, which validates each form field once focus
> is lost, can accomplish the following:
> 1. Informs all users of the invalid field before the user proceeds.
> This helps keep those with certain cognitive disabilities focused on
> filling out the various parts of a form, especially if it is lengthy.
> 2. Reduces overhead navigation, because both screen reader and
> keyboard only users would not have to navigate from the Submit button
> back to the various form elements that failed validation. overhead navigation.
> 3. Provides a client-side validation approach, which would eliminate
> unnecessary postback to the server. This can be very helpful for
> mobile users or those with poor internet connections.
> 4. Standardizes the form validation, which provides an efficient user
> experience for various types of users and avoids using the disabled
> attribute on the Submit button.
>
> Again my 2 cents. 😊
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> Hill, Barry (Accessibility Tester) via WebAIM-Forum
> Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2023 5:45 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Cc: Hill, Barry (Accessibility Tester) < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [EXTERNAL] Re: Whether or not to disable form
> submit button
>
> Thanks for that, Mark and all. Interesting that it can be made focusable.
> Does the fact that it's disabled yet focusable become an accessibility
> issue in itself?
>
> Thanks again in anticipation.
>
> Cheers
>
> Barry
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> Mark Magennis
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2023 4:04 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [EXTERNAL] Re: Whether or not to disable form
> submit button
>
> A disabled Submit button can still be focusable and exposed to AT.
> Coding-wise, if you add the HTML disabled attribute it will not be
> focusable in most, if not all, browsers. But if you add
> aria-disabled="true" it will remain focusable. This makes it
> discoverable and gives you the opportunity to provide some information
> in the name or description about why it is currently disabled.
> > From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > on behalf of
> jp Jamous < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Sent: Thursday 14 December 2023 14:00
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [WebAIM] Whether or not to disable form submit
> button
>
> What Chat GPT provided is not necessarily WCAG compliant. In fact, it
> is a UX Design guideline. All of the UX designers I have worked with
> since 2018 have been implementing this.
>
> While it might work for sighted users, I find it to work against
> screen reader and keyboard only users. If the form does not display
> any errors once a form element loses focus and no status alerts are
> spoken, then the user would tab to the end of the form and there is no
> Submit button receiving focus. That Throws the user off until the user
> figures out that something is wrong with the form.
>
> I am not claiming that I am against it. As long as 1. there is a
> visual alert And 2. status alert
>
> Once the invalid form element loses focus , having the Submit button
> disabled is okay. Unfortunately, UX Design does not take all users in
> consideration. That is why my approach with UX Designers is to look at
> an inclusive approach rather than what is defined by UX Design documentation.
>
> Just my 2 cents on this.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2023 7:19 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Whether or not to disable form submit button
>
> I was actually unsure about this.
> So I asked my buddy ChatGPT and this is what he said
>
> While there may not be a universal standard, it's considered a good
> practice to disable the submit button until all required fields are correctly filled.
> This helps prevent incomplete or erroneous form submissions and
> enhances user experience.
>
> Dean Vasile
>
>
> 617-799-1162
>
>> On Dec 14, 2023, at 7:59 AM, Hill, Barry (Accessibility Tester) via
>> WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>
>> Hi all
>>
>> I'm looking for a rule or regulation on this, but, if there isn't
>> one, best practice will help. Should a submit button on a form be
>> disabled until after all fields have been correctly completed?
>>
>> Thanks in anticipation.
> > > http://list/.
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--
Regards,
Kavein
Kaveinthran (He/Him)
Curious, Native Blind
Part time Research Consultant in ADPAN
Disabled independent Human Rights Advocate
email: <EMAIL REMOVED> < <EMAIL REMOVED> > twitter <https://twitter.com/kaveinthran> My LinkedIn <https://my.linkedin.com/in/kaveinthran>