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Thread: layout and colour issues
Number of posts in this thread: 5 (In chronological order)
From: The Snider's Web
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2004 1:20PM
Subject: layout and colour issues
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Hi Everyone,
I have been a lurker for a while and have learned a lot-thanks for such a
great list. I have a couple of questions about the layout and colour of web
sites.
If one uses tables should they use a layout that makes all the navigation
stay together and then the main text starts or have them intermingle? Here
is an example of what I mean:
If you look at the following two examples in WAVE
(http://www.wave.webaim.org/) or the Lynx Simulator
(http://www.delorie.com/web/lynxview.html) you can see the difference I mean:
http://www.thesnidersweb.com/ (this one has the top text, links then the
main text)
http://www.thesnidersweb.com/indextrial3.htm (this one has all the nav
together and then the main content starts)
Which would be better for a viewer with disabilities?
The second question has to do with the colours of links when the stylesheet
is not present. On the site above (either link) I have a concern that the
left side links are very hard to read (they are blue on a green
background). I have bottom links that are not impacted by the stylesheet,
are these enough? Should one try and make the link colour viewable on the
left side as well?
I am still playing with changes to my site, but if you see anything else
that may be problematic-please let me know.
Cheers and thanks
Lisa
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From: Paul Bohman
Date: Thu, Feb 19 2004 11:23AM
Subject: Re: layout and colour issues
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I would say that your question enters the realm of usability within
accessibility. As a general rule, I recommend keeping your main
navigation as simple as possible, for everyone, regardless of
disability. You want to provide a clear sense of the main topics of
interest in your Web site. If you provide users with lots of links, then
they lose track of the main categories of information on your Web site.
By putting all your links together, you've elevated your secondary links
(like "site map" and "contact us") to the same status as your core
categories. I would try to keep a clear separation.
People who use screen readers can choose to read all of the links
together by activating a keyboard shortcut that brings up a list of all
of the links, which is usually presented in alphabetical order. You
don't need to perform this function for the people who use screen
readers. Pay more attention to concise message design instead.
The Snider's Web wrote:
> If one uses tables should they use a layout that makes all the
> navigation stay together and then the main text starts or have them
> intermingle? Here is an example of what I mean:
>
> If you look at the following two examples in WAVE
> (http://www.wave.webaim.org/) or the Lynx Simulator
> (http://www.delorie.com/web/lynxview.html) you can see the difference I
> mean:
> http://www.thesnidersweb.com/ (this one has the top text, links then the
> main text)
> http://www.thesnidersweb.com/indextrial3.htm (this one has all the nav
> together and then the main content starts)
>
> Which would be better for a viewer with disabilities?
--
Paul Ryan Bohman
Web Accessibility Specialist/Project Coordinator
WebAIM (Web Accessibility in Mind)
www.webaim.org
Center for Persons with Disabilities
www.cpd.usu.edu
Utah State University
www.usu.edu
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From: Paul Bohman
Date: Thu, Feb 19 2004 11:31AM
Subject: Re: layout and colour issues
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With regard to your second question, the solution is rather simple: use
CSS for all of your styling, and not just part of it. You can set the
background color for your table cells using CSS. When styles are turned
off, everything is just plain text, with no color conflicts.
By the way, this suggestion can apply to layout as well. Consider taking
the plunge into full CSS layout, and abandoning layout tables. It's not
an easy first step, but the end results are rewarding.
(Just a side note: layout tables are not automatically bad for
accessibility. When used well, they don't hinder access for any users.
Switching to CSS layout will not automatically improve the accessibility
of your pages either. You have to use CSS wisely. Still, CSS layouts
are more powerful than table layouts, and they allow for more accurate
semantic representation of the information in the Web content. CSS
layout is worth considering.)
The Snider's Web wrote:
>
> The second question has to do with the colours of links when the
> stylesheet is not present. On the site above (either link) I have a
> concern that the left side links are very hard to read (they are blue on
> a green background). I have bottom links that are not impacted by the
> stylesheet, are these enough? Should one try and make the link colour
> viewable on the left side as well?
--
Paul Ryan Bohman
Web Accessibility Specialist/Project Coordinator
WebAIM (Web Accessibility in Mind)
www.webaim.org
Center for Persons with Disabilities
www.cpd.usu.edu
Utah State University
www.usu.edu
----
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visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
From: The Snider's Web
Date: Mon, Mar 01 2004 1:20PM
Subject: Re: layout and colour issues
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Hi Paul,
Thanks for the info here. I didn't know about the keyboard shortcut-that is
interesting. Is that present in all screen readers or just some of them?
Are accesskeys ever used these days?
Cheers
Lisa
At 11:15 AM 2/19/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>I would say that your question enters the realm of usability within
>accessibility. As a general rule, I recommend keeping your main navigation
>as simple as possible, for everyone, regardless of disability. You want to
>provide a clear sense of the main topics of interest in your Web site. If
>you provide users with lots of links, then they lose track of the main
>categories of information on your Web site.
>
>By putting all your links together, you've elevated your secondary links
>(like "site map" and "contact us") to the same status as your core
>categories. I would try to keep a clear separation.
>
>People who use screen readers can choose to read all of the links together
>by activating a keyboard shortcut that brings up a list of all of the
>links, which is usually presented in alphabetical order. You don't need to
>perform this function for the people who use screen readers. Pay more
>attention to concise message design instead.
>--
>Paul Ryan Bohman
>Web Accessibility Specialist/Project Coordinator
>WebAIM (Web Accessibility in Mind)
>www.webaim.org
>Center for Persons with Disabilities
>www.cpd.usu.edu
>Utah State University
>www.usu.edu
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To subscribe, unsubscribe, suspend, or view list archives,
visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
From: The Snider's Web
Date: Mon, Mar 01 2004 1:20PM
Subject: Re: layout and colour issues
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Hi Paul,
My apologies for a late reply, with computer and snow problems life has
been chaotic :)
Thanks for the tip, it is just that simple! Geez sometimes over-analyzing
does a person in...The CSS-P is tougher as in this area of the world N4.7
is still used extensively so that has been an issue.
I am slowly getting up to speed with css, there is so much to learn in this
field-why can't they clone people?
Cheers and thanks again,
Lisa
At 11:23 AM 2/19/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>With regard to your second question, the solution is rather simple: use
>CSS for all of your styling, and not just part of it. You can set the
>background color for your table cells using CSS. When styles are turned
>off, everything is just plain text, with no color conflicts.
>
>By the way, this suggestion can apply to layout as well. Consider taking
>the plunge into full CSS layout, and abandoning layout tables. It's not an
>easy first step, but the end results are rewarding.
>
>(Just a side note: layout tables are not automatically bad for
>accessibility. When used well, they don't hinder access for any users.
>Switching to CSS layout will not automatically improve the
>accessibility of your pages either. You have to use CSS wisely. Still,
>CSS layouts are more powerful than table layouts, and they allow for more
>accurate semantic representation of the information in the Web content.
>CSS layout is worth considering.)
>
>The Snider's Web wrote:
>
>>The second question has to do with the colours of links when the
>>stylesheet is not present. On the site above (either link) I have a
>>concern that the left side links are very hard to read (they are blue on
>>a green background). I have bottom links that are not impacted by the
>>stylesheet, are these enough? Should one try and make the link colour
>>viewable on the left side as well?
>
>
>--
>Paul Ryan Bohman
>Web Accessibility Specialist/Project Coordinator
>WebAIM (Web Accessibility in Mind)
>www.webaim.org
>Center for Persons with Disabilities
>www.cpd.usu.edu
>Utah State University
>www.usu.edu
>
>
>
>----
>To subscribe, unsubscribe, suspend, or view list archives, visit
>http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
----
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