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Thread: Long form legends
Number of posts in this thread: 26 (In chronological order)
From: Joelle Tegwen
Date: Tue, May 31 2005 8:13AM
Subject: Long form legends
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We have a quandary.
We are a government funded site, and our focus is for people with
disabilities so accessibility is very important to us. However, we also want
our site to look good on all browsers.
We have several activities (forms) on our site. We ask the students
questions, they answer them on the form and save their questions, but
sometimes the questions are long. Like this:
<fieldset class="fieldset3">
<legend>My disability</legend>
<fieldset>
<legend>Things that might help me to participate <br>in different
activities:</legend>
<label for="Q1_0">1.</label> <input name="Q1_0" id="Q1_0" value=""
size="30" type="text"><br>
<label for="Q1_1">2.</label> <input name="Q1_1" id="Q1_1" value=""
size="30" type="text"><br>
<label for="Q1_2">3.</label> <input name="Q1_2" id="Q1_2" value=""
size="30" type="text"><br>
<label for="Q1_3">4.</label> <input name="Q1_3" id="Q1_3" value=""
size="30" type="text"><br>
<label for="Q1_4">5.</label> <input name="Q1_4" id="Q1_4" value=""
size="30" type="text"><br>
<label for="Q1_5">For Example:</label> <input name="Q1_5" id="Q1_5"
value="" size="30" type="text">
</fieldset>
<fieldset>
<legend>Transportation</legend>
<fieldset>
<legend>Will I be doing things out in the community, and if so,
<br>do I need assistance with arranging transportation?</legend>
<input name="Q2_0" id="Q2_0_0" value="Yes" type="radio"> <label
for="Q2_0_0">Yes</label>
<input name="Q2_0" id="Q2_0_1" value="No" type="radio"> <label
for="Q2_0_1">No</label>
</fieldset>
<fieldset>
<legend>Could I get a ride with someone who<br> is already involved in
the organization?</legend>
<input name="Q3_0" id="Q3_0_0" value="Yes" type="radio"> <label
for="Q3_0_0">Yes</label>
<input name="Q3_0" id="Q3_0_1" value="No" type="radio"> <label
for="Q3_0_1">No</label>
</fieldset>
<label for="Q4_0">Person that can help me find a ride:</label> <input
name="Q4_0" id="Q4_0" value="" size="30" type="text"><br>
</fieldset>
<fieldset>
<legend>Support</legend>
<fieldset>
<legend>Do I need extra time to complete some <br> activities and
assignments?</legend>
<input name="Q5_0" id="Q5_0_0" value="Yes" type="radio"> <label
for="Q5_0_0">Yes</label>
<input name="Q5_0" id="Q5_0_1" value="No" type="radio"> <label
for="Q5_0_1">No</label>
</fieldset>
<fieldset>
<legend>Will I need some support from someone while I am <br> actually
on-site volunteering or doing community service?</legend>
<input name="Q6_0" id="Q6_0_0" value="Yes" type="radio"> <label
for="Q6_0_0">Yes</label>
<input name="Q6_0" id="Q6_0_1" value="No" type="radio"> <label
for="Q6_0_1">No</label>
</fieldset>
<label for="Q7_0">If so, what kind of support?</label> <input
name="Q7_0" id="Q7_0" value="" size="30" type="text"><br>
</fieldset>
</fieldset>
Note the <br> tags in the legends. We need these for some browsers because
they don't wrap the legend automatically and some of those don't accept
styling on the legend tag. (very frustrating) But on the Mac browsers (that
do wrap automatically), if your browser width is too small, you get odd
wrapping because you get the <br>s and the wrapping.
We used to have the long questions inside a <p> inside the fieldset, but
heard that was bad for people using screen readers because they don't read
<p>s in "forms mode"
What do we do?
Joelle Tegwen
ICI, U of MN
From: Christian Heilmann
Date: Tue, May 31 2005 8:32AM
Subject: Re: Long form legends
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> Note the <br> tags in the legends. We need these for some browsers because
> they don't wrap the legend automatically and some of those don't accept
> styling on the legend tag. (very frustrating) But on the Mac browsers (that
> do wrap automatically), if your browser width is too small, you get odd
> wrapping because you get the <br>s and the wrapping.
>
> We used to have the long questions inside a <p> inside the fieldset, but
> heard that was bad for people using screen readers because they don't read
> <p>s in "forms mode"
>
> What do we do?
What you could do is only apply the BRs via scripting for certain
browsers. That is the road to destruction though.
How about rethinking and rewriting the form?
A legend with a yes / no radio button is the same as a checkbox with a label:
<input .... ><label ...>I need some support from someone while I am
on-site.</label>
--
Chris Heilmann
Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com
Writing: http://icant.co.uk/
Binaries: http://www.onlinetools.org/
From: Mike Foskett
Date: Tue, May 31 2005 9:03AM
Subject: RE: Long form legends
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Hi Christian,
How about dropping legend and use a heading instead?
Mike 2k:)2
____________________________________________________________________________________
Mike Foskett
Web Standards, Accessibility & Testing Consultant
Multimedia Publishing and Production
British Educational Communications and Technology Agency (Becta)
Milburn Hill Road, Science Park, Coventry CV4 7JJ
Email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Tel: 02476 416994 Ext 3342 [Tuesday - Thursday]
Fax: 02476 411410
www.becta.org.uk
____________________________________________________________________________________
From: Joelle Tegwen
Date: Tue, May 31 2005 9:19AM
Subject: RE: Long form legends
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Does that get read correctly by the screen readers? If they don't read
paragraphs (or so I heard) then do they read the headings as you tab through
the form? Are the headings associated with the correct questions so people
with screen readers know where they are?
Joelle
From: Jim Allan
Date: Tue, May 31 2005 9:50AM
Subject: RE: Long form legends
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As you tab through a form you only hear type of form control, it's state (if
it has one), associated label or title, associated field set (if it has
one).
a heading would not be read in forms mode, unless it were also marked as a
label for the form control. LABEL can be contained within a block level
element, so a heading can be a label.
Screen readers can only be in one "mode" at a time - reading, forms, table,
etc. it varies between screen reader as to how many modes. This is also true
for HomePage Reader.
Jim Allan, Webmaster & Statewide Technical Support Specialist
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
---> Share to Win!! <---
From: Rainer Wagener
Date: Tue, May 31 2005 10:15AM
Subject: RE: Long form legends
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Hi Christian,
> > Note the <br> tags in the legends. We need these for
> some browsers because
> > they don't wrap the legend automatically and some of
> those don't accept
> > styling on the legend tag.
> What you could do is only apply the BRs via scripting for certain
> browsers. That is the road to destruction though.
Why is it so bad to have <br> inside <legend>?
Are there any practical problems with screen readers or other ATs ?
Or is this basically a semantic approach (good code)?
Regards Rainer
--
Rainer Wagener
Webentwicklungen
Blumenstr. 57
69115 Heidelberg
Tel.: 062 21 - 60 05 81
www.rohschnitt.de
From: Joelle Tegwen
Date: Tue, May 31 2005 10:51AM
Subject: RE: Long form legends
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It's bad for us to have <br>s inside the legend because Mac browsers wrap
the legend text automatically and if the browser window is smaller than we
predict then the legend scrolls and <br>s and it looks awful.
Thanks
Joelle
From: Thomas Jedenfelt
Date: Wed, Jun 01 2005 8:35AM
Subject: Re: Long form legends
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Hello Joelle,
I have two suggestions:
1) Use control type TEXT in place of RADIO BUTTONS, and do not use FIELDSET / LEGEND.
2) The option to copy and paste the form questions into an E-mail program, by way of a linking to a text page from the form Web page.
(I do not know if this is practical, just a thought.)
Regarding suggestion 1.
According to the AFB Web site (American Foundation for the Blind), FIELDSET and RADIO BUTTONS, are not consistently supported by user agents. (See below quotes.)
(I do not know if your users are affected by this. Also, I do not know when this AFB page was updated.)
http://www.afb.org/Section.asp?SectionID=57&;TopicID=167&DocumentID=2375&Mode=Print
QUOTE
Fieldset approach is not supported by all forms and versions of assistive technology.
Radio buttons are not supported consistently by all versions of browsers, screen readers, and combinations.
UNQUOTE
EXAMPLE of suggestion 1.
(I do not know if below technique may be useful in practice.)
You would control the layout by the selectors P and LABEL, and not FIELDSET / LEGEND (which I understand caused some trouble.)
I have edited the text of the labels.
<p><label>
Will you be doing things out in the community, and if so, do you need assistance with arranging transportation?
<input type="text" value="Enter Yes or No">
</label></p>
<p><label>
Could I get a ride with someone who is already involved in the organization?
<input type="text" value="Enter Yes or No">
</label></p>
<p><label>
Give name of the persons who could help you find a ride?
<input type="text" value="Enter names">
</label></p>
<p><label>
Do you need extra time to complete some activities and assignments?
<input type="text" value="Enter Yes or No">
</label></p>
<p><label>
What kind of support would you need from someone while you are actually on-site volunteering or doing community service?
<input type="text" value="text">
</label></p>
Regards,
Thomas Jedenfelt
--
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From: Patrick Lauke
Date: Wed, Jun 01 2005 9:31AM
Subject: RE: Long form legends
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> Thomas Jedenfelt
> http://www.afb.org/Section.asp?SectionID=57&;TopicID=167&Docume
> ntID=2375&Mode=Print
>
> QUOTE
...
>
> Radio buttons are not supported consistently by all versions
> of browsers, screen readers, and combinations.
> UNQUOTE
I'd love to get more specific information on this point, as it
seems to be quite a fundamental problem if we're not supposed to
use even such a basic building block of form design. Does anybody
have indications which browsers/screenreaders the AFB is
referring to?
Patrick
________________________________
Patrick H. Lauke
Webmaster / University of Salford
http://www.salford.ac.uk
From: Mike Foskett
Date: Wed, Jun 01 2005 9:50AM
Subject: RE: Long form legends
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> 1) Use control type TEXT in place of RADIO BUTTONS,
I'd have to completely disagree with that statement.
Radio buttons have been in HTML since the year dot.
But it does make a difference whether the descriptive text is pre or post input.
All user agents are supposed to ignore elements they do not understand.
I still stand by using a heading element in place of legend.
Users who only tab the focus through input elements are going to miss information on almost every site, accessible or not.
A radio button should be used when there are more than two options.
If a simple yes / no response is required then a checkbox is usually more suitable.
<input type="checkbox" id="Q6_0" name="Q6_0" />
<label for="Q6_0">I will need support while on-site volunteering or doing community service.</label>
Mike 2k:)2
____________________________________________________________________________________
Mike Foskett
Web Standards, Accessibility & Testing Consultant
Multimedia Publishing and Production
British Educational Communications and Technology Agency (Becta)
Milburn Hill Road, Science Park, Coventry CV4 7JJ
Email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Tel: 02476 416994 Ext 3342 [Tuesday - Thursday]
Fax: 02476 411410
www.becta.org.uk
____________________________________________________________________________________
From: Thomas Jedenfelt
Date: Fri, Jun 10 2005 1:48PM
Subject: RE: Long form legends
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Okay, as my previous suggestions did not cause shouts of joy, let's try another one:
In below suggestion I use CHECKBOX and TEXT field.
There are no LEGEND, FIELDSET or RADIO elements.
(Joelle had problems with styling LEGEND / FIELDSET. And AFB suggests avoiding RADIO [1].)
There are only five or six questions, so I do not see a need for LEGEND / FIELDSET.
Does anyone agree?
I have rephrased the text of the labels.
I have omitted the attributes.
<p><label>
<input type="checkbox">
Yes, I will need assistance with arranging transportation when I do things out in the community.
</label></p>
<p><label>
<input type="checkbox">
Yes, I could get a ride with someone who is already involved in the organization.
</label></p>
<p><label>
I can not get a ride with someone who is already involved in the organization, but these persons can give me a ride:
<input type="text" value="name">
</label></p>
<p><label>
<input type="checkbox">
Yes, I will need extra time to complete some activities and assignments.
</label></p>
<p><label>
I will need this kind of support from someone while I am actually on-site volunteering or doing community service:
<input type="text" value="text">
</label></p>
Also, this article may be of interest:
Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox, 27-Sep-2004
'Checkboxes vs. Radio Buttons'
(http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20040927.html)
Regards,
Thomas Jedenfelt
[1]
AFB suggests avoiding RADIO.
AccessWorld issue of March 2004.
http://www.afb.org/afbpress/pub.asp?DocID=aw050204
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, AFB's advice is still on their Web site, one year after the article.
(http://www.afb.org/Section.asp?SectionID=57&;TopicID=167&DocumentID=2375&Mode=Print)
I wonder if AFB, as of today, still recommends that RADIO should be avoided. Or, if they haven't as yet updated the Web page?
--
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From: Thomas Jedenfelt
Date: Mon, Jun 06 2005 10:51AM
Subject: RE: RE: Long form legends
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Joelle,
You wrote:
'But we have over 70 activities and they all have fieldsets.'
As I wrote in my first message in this thread, FIELDSET / LEGEND is not consistently supported by user agents, according to AFB (American Foundation for the Blind).
(http://www.afb.org/Section.asp?SectionID=57&;TopicID=167&DocumentID=2375&Mod&Mode=Print&Mode=Print)
If AFB's recommendation is still valid as of today (and affects your users), I would say that you are in serious trouble.
Maybe you ought to find out if the user agents - that the students are using - supports these elements, before you continue to work on these forms.
If they don't supports these elements, you might want to take a vacation.
Regards,
Thomas Jedenfelt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joelle Tegwen"
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:52:31 -0500
>
> I'm going to talk to our designers about moving from two radios to one
> checkbox, thus eliminating a lot of our needed fieldsets. But we have over
> 70 activities and they all have fieldsets. I just gave 1 example.
>
> But I do have many cases where I have things like:
> List 5 people that can help you with this:
> 1. <input type="text">
> 2. <input type="text">
> 3. <input type="text">
> 4. <input type="text">
> 5. <input type="text">
>
> And these clearly qualify for a fieldset/legend.
>
> We *must* be accessible to screen readers (our mission is to support people
> with disabilities) so the "List 5 people.." needs to be associated with the
> 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5. His example only associates the "List 5 people..." with the
> 1st control.
>
> Could we use a <dl>? Can form controls go inside a dl?
>
> Thanks
> Joelle
>
>
>
From: Richard Garbutt
Date: Fri, Jun 10 2005 1:49PM
Subject: Re: RE: Long form legends
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi, This is my first post to the list. I joined recently and have only
recieved Thomas' last post.
This tutorial:
http://www.picment.com/articles/css/funwithforms/
seems great on styling forms. I like the way they mark them up:
<code>
<form>
<fieldest>
<label for="foo">foo</label>
<input id="foo" type="text" name="foo" />
</fieldset>
</form>
</code>
This seems (IMHO) the most semantic and accessable way to do it and
allows great styling.
regards
Richard
From: ben morrison
Date: Mon, Jun 06 2005 8:03AM
Subject: Re: RE: Long form legends
← Previous message | Next message →
> But I do have many cases where I have things like:
> List 5 people that can help you with this:
> 1. <input type="text">
> 2. <input type="text">
> 3. <input type="text">
> 4. <input type="text">
> 5. <input type="text">
>
> And these clearly qualify for a fieldset/legend.
Why don't you stick with the fieldset/legend route, use a br tag to
make the legend break, send the mac browser css to override the break.
/* IE5/Mac Only Styles
Uses the IE5/Mac Band Pass Filter:
http://stopdesign.com/examples/ie5mac-bpf/
----------------------------------------------- */
/**//*/
br {
display:none;
}
/**/
<legend>List 5 people that can: <br> help you with this:</legend>
Does the legend work/wrap correctly in safari/firefox on a mac?
ben
From: Jukka K. Korpela
Date: Fri, Jun 10 2005 2:03PM
Subject: Re: RE: Long form legends
← Previous message | Next message →
On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Richard Garbutt wrote:
> This tutorial:
>
> http://www.picment.com/articles/css/funwithforms/
>
> seems great on styling forms. I like the way they mark them up:
>
> <code>
> <form>
> <fieldest>
> <label for="foo">foo</label>
> <input id="foo" type="text" name="foo" />
> </fieldset>
> </form>
> </code>
Unfortunately, that's invalid markup, and I don't mean just the
misspelling <fieldest> for <fieldset>. Contrary to what the cited document
claims, the <legend> element is _not_ optional. It is required by HTML
syntax, see
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/interact/forms.html#h-17.10
(Even the spec is misleading: it says that "The LEGEND element allows
authors to assign a caption to a FIELDSET", but by the formal syntax,
<legend> is required.)
I don't think <fieldset> is particularly useful for a _single_ field. It's
useful for a _group_ of interrelated radio buttons and their captions, for
example.
Note: <legend></legend> would satisfy the syntax requirement, but it may
confuse people who use browsers that speak the legend.
--
Jukka "Yucca" Korpela, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
From: Richard Garbutt
Date: Fri, Jun 10 2005 2:05PM
Subject: Re: Long form legends
← Previous message | Next message →
So using <legend></legend> and legend {display:none;} in the
stylesheet would work?
Or am I missing something else?
-Richard
From: Steven Faulkner
Date: Fri, Jun 10 2005 2:10PM
Subject: RE: Long form legends
← Previous message | Next message →
Jukka "Yucca" Korpela wrote:
>Contrary to what the
> cited document
> claims, the <legend> element is _not_ optional. It is required by HTML
> syntax, see
> http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/interact/forms.html#h-17.10
> (Even the spec is misleading: it says that "The LEGEND element allows
> authors to assign a caption to a FIELDSET", but by the formal syntax,
> <legend> is required.)
Does this mean that the W3C validator is incorrect when it says a xhtml
1.0 transitional document containing a fieldset element without a legend
element is valid?
with regards
Steven Faulkner
Web Accessibility Consultant
National Information & Library Service (NILS)
454 Glenferrie Road
Kooyong Victoria 3144
Phone: (613) 9864 9281
Fax: (613) 9864 9210
Email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
National Information Library Service
A subsidiary of RBS.RVIB.VAF Ltd.
>
From: Thomas Jedenfelt
Date: Fri, Jun 10 2005 2:11PM
Subject: RE: Long form legends
← Previous message | Next message →
It seems to me that:
1) LEGEND is _required_ as the first child of FIELDSET.
[HTML 4]
2) LEGEND _should_ (but not required) be the first child of FIELDSET.
[XHTML 1]
Is my interpretation correct?
See Masayasu Ishikawa's replies in the thread:
'FIELDSET, LEGEND, HTML, & XHTML',
in W3C Mailing list ' = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = '.
(http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2002Feb/thread.html#25)
(Masayasu Ishikawa is an employee of W3C, and works with HTML / XHTML.)
Regards,
Thomas Jedenfelt
>
> Steven Faulkner wrote:
>
> Does this mean that the W3C validator is incorrect when it says a xhtml
> 1.0 transitional document containing a fieldset element without a legend
> element is valid?
>
> with regards
> Steven Faulkner
>
>
> Jukka "Yucca" Korpela wrote:
>
> > Contrary to what the cited document claims,
> > the <legend> element is _not_ optional. It is required by HTML
> > syntax, see
> > http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/interact/forms.html#h-17.10
> > (Even the spec is misleading: it says that "The LEGEND element allows
> > authors to assign a caption to a FIELDSET", but by the formal syntax,
> > <legend> is required.)
--
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From: Richard Garbutt
Date: Fri, Jun 10 2005 3:19PM
Subject: Re: Long form legends
← Previous message | Next message →
On 06/06/05, Joelle Tegwen < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> I'm going to talk to our designers about moving from two radios to one
> checkbox, thus eliminating a lot of our needed fieldsets. But we have over
> 70 activities and they all have fieldsets. I just gave 1 example.
>
> But I do have many cases where I have things like:
> List 5 people that can help you with this:
> 1. <input type="text">
> 2. <input type="text">
> 3. <input type="text">
> 4. <input type="text">
> 5. <input type="text">
>
> And these clearly qualify for a fieldset/legend.
>
> We *must* be accessible to screen readers (our mission is to support people
> with disabilities) so the "List 5 people.." needs to be associated with the
> 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5. His example only associates the "List 5 people..." with the
> 1st control.
>
What about the <label> tag?
Something like this may solve your problem:
<fieldset>
<legend>List 5 people that can help you with this:</legend>
<label for="p1">1st Person</label>
<input id="p1" type="text" />
<label for="p2>2nd Person</label>
<input id="p2" type="text" />
<label for="p3">3rd Person</label>
<input id="p3" type="text" />
<label for="p4">4th Person</label>
<input id="p4" type="text" />
<label for="p5">5th Person</label>
<input id="p5" type="text" />
</fieldset>
I think the context is clear enough to avoid people entering "I",
"You" and "She" in the first three fields.
-Richard
From: Steven Faulkner
Date: Fri, Jun 10 2005 3:20PM
Subject: RE: Long form legends
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Thomas,
Thomas wrote:
> It seems to me that:
>
> 1) LEGEND is _required_ as the first child of FIELDSET.
> [HTML 4]
>
> 2) LEGEND _should_ (but not required) be the first child of FIELDSET.
> [XHTML 1]
>
> Is my interpretation correct?
running code containing FIELDSET element without a LEGEND element with
the 2 Doctype's (html 4.01 and xhtml 1.1) through the W3C validator
supports your interpretation.
best regards
stevef
>
From: Thomas Jedenfelt
Date: Fri, Jun 10 2005 3:20PM
Subject: RE: Long form legends
← Previous message | Next message →
Joelle,
If you do not need (for technical reasons handling the students' input) to associate one Text control with a person's name, then why not use TEXTAREA?
To see if this might work, grab a couple of students and have them fill out the form on a test page.
(Simple user tests are recommended by usability experts.)
Let us know if it works. If not, we'll try something else.
Regards,
Thomas Jedenfelt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joelle Tegwen"
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:52:31 -0500
>
> I'm going to talk to our designers about moving from two radios to one
> checkbox, thus eliminating a lot of our needed fieldsets. But we have over
> 70 activities and they all have fieldsets. I just gave 1 example.
>
> But I do have many cases where I have things like:
> List 5 people that can help you with this:
> 1. <input type="text">
> 2. <input type="text">
> 3. <input type="text">
> 4. <input type="text">
> 5. <input type="text">
>
> And these clearly qualify for a fieldset/legend.
>
> We *must* be accessible to screen readers (our mission is to support people
> with disabilities) so the "List 5 people.." needs to be associated with the
> 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5. His example only associates the "List 5 people..." with the
> 1st control.
>
> Could we use a <dl>? Can form controls go inside a dl?
>
> Thanks
> Joelle
>
>
>
>
>
From: Joelle Tegwen
Date: Fri, Jun 10 2005 3:22PM
Subject: RE: Long form legends
← Previous message | Next message →
I'm going to talk to our designers about moving from two radios to one
checkbox, thus eliminating a lot of our needed fieldsets. But we have over
70 activities and they all have fieldsets. I just gave 1 example.
But I do have many cases where I have things like:
List 5 people that can help you with this:
1. <input type="text">
2. <input type="text">
3. <input type="text">
4. <input type="text">
5. <input type="text">
And these clearly qualify for a fieldset/legend.
We *must* be accessible to screen readers (our mission is to support people
with disabilities) so the "List 5 people.." needs to be associated with the
1, 2, 3, 4 & 5. His example only associates the "List 5 people..." with the
1st control.
Could we use a <dl>? Can form controls go inside a dl?
Thanks
Joelle
From: ben morrison
Date: Fri, Jun 10 2005 3:25PM
Subject: Re: Long form legends
← Previous message | Next message →
> Cause I never thought of that. :) (duh)
>
> On a Mac:
> Legends wrap automatically in these browsers:
> Opera, Safari, Explorer
>
> They don't in these browsers:
> Netscape, Mozilla, FireFox
>
>
> On a PC:
> They don't in these browsers:
> Netscape, Mozilla, FireFox, IE
>
> I know that IE/PC responds to styling the width of the legend though.
Here is a list of css hacks that maybe of use:
http://centricle.com/ref/css/filters/
I should have added a class to the br as well:
<br class="legendBreak">
.legendBreak {
display:none;
}
From: Joelle Tegwen
Date: Fri, Jun 10 2005 3:26PM
Subject: RE: Long form legends
← Previous message | Next message →
Cause I never thought of that. :) (duh)
On a Mac:
Legends wrap automatically in these browsers:
Opera, Safari, Explorer
They don't in these browsers:
Netscape, Mozilla, FireFox
On a PC:
They don't in these browsers:
Netscape, Mozilla, FireFox, IE
I know that IE/PC responds to styling the width of the legend though.
Thanks!
Joelle
From: Joelle Tegwen
Date: Fri, Jun 10 2005 3:27PM
Subject: RE: Long form legends
← Previous message | Next message →
I must say I'm quite frustrated that screen readers don't support something
as basic as a form.
We'll have to research this. We visited with a (blind) usability expert here
at our University and he was clear that we should be using
fieldsets/legends.
I don't think we'll go with the method you suggested (for the reasons I
mentioned before) if we change over. Maybe we'll use dls. That seems at
least closer to semantically correct and (I think) would achieve the desired
effect of associating the "legend" with the child inputs.
And if they don't support fieldsets I'll be working overtime not taking a
vacation. :)
Thanks
Joelle
From: ben morrison
Date: Fri, Jun 10 2005 3:28PM
Subject: Re: Long form legends
← Previous message | No next message
> As I wrote in my first message in this thread, FIELDSET / LEGEND is not consistently supported by user agents, according to AFB (American Foundation for the Blind).
>
> (http://www.afb.org/Section.asp?SectionID=57&;TopicID=167&DocumentID=2375&Mod&Mode=Print&Mode=Print)
>
> If AFB's recommendation is still valid as of today (and affects your users), I would say that you are in serious trouble.
I think that the issue here is about "forms mode", so the user will
enter in and out of forms mode as and when needed. My understanding is
that they would read the legend then enter forms mode.... some
clarification would be good as Im nto ready to start removing
fieldsets and legends from my forms.
here is yet another article about fieldset legends being read by jaws
http://www.ital.utexas.edu/resource/how_to/form/pulldown_gp/pulldown_gp.html