E-mail List Archives

Search E-mail List Archives for

Number of posts in this thread: 7 (In chronological order)

From: Sesock, Kevin A
Date: Wed, Feb 22 2006 2:40PM
Subject: Desktop Publishing to Accessible Webs
No previous message | Next message →

Two issues for the list.

One, is anyone aware of any desktop publishing package that will convert
to an accessible web? Every semester, our office puts out a paper
newsletter that then has to be converted to the web. So far, I've tried
out FrontPage and PageMaker, and neither seem to create clean HTML that
is highly usable (FrontPage, of course, being the most horrific).

Two, is there any converter, somewhat in the spirit of the Microsoft
Office Accessible Web Publishing Wizard from the University of Illinois,
for either PageMaker or FrontPage?

Thanks, all, in advance.

Kevin A. Sesock, A+, Net+, CNA, MCSA
Assistive Technology Specialist
Student Disability Services
Division of Student Affairs
Oklahoma State University

http://access.it.okstate.edu

"Hail to the speaker, hail to the knower. Joy to he who has understood,
delight to they who have listened." - Odin

From: Austin, Darrel
Date: Wed, Feb 22 2006 3:10PM
Subject: RE: Desktop Publishing to Accessible Webs
← Previous message | Next message →

> One, is anyone aware of any desktop publishing package that
> will convert to an accessible web? Every semester, our office
> puts out a paper newsletter that then has to be converted to
> the web. So far, I've tried out FrontPage and PageMaker, and
> neither seem to create clean HTML that is highly usable
> (FrontPage, of course, being the most horrific).

That's sort of a backwards way to go.

Most desktop publishing apps are designed for print presentation. They
really don't care too much about semantics. As such, it's hard to go
from unstructured content to accessible, structured, semantic content.
DTPs are typically the 'last stop' for the content...not the source
repository.

Some DTP apps, however, can import structured text...namely Framemaker
and Indesign. I haven't done much with indesign (I've been out of the
print world for a while) but my understanding is that it can import copy
as XML.

Of course, at this point, the catch is that someone needs to make the
content in some sort of structured editor to begin with.

Ideally, you'd then be going from that source document to both web and
to print.

Based on your set up, I'd suggest channging the workflow. Start in HTML.
Have someone write the articles in clean, simple, semantic HTML. This
could even be done in MS Word if the person is capable of using Word
formatting properly and you have access to something like HTML Tidy to
clean up the markup.

Then, from there, send a copy to the print designer, and a copy to the
web designer and have them publish from there.

(or, even better, maybe skip the print newsletter all together and save
a tree...but that's another debate ;o)

-Darrel

From: Kynn Bartlett
Date: Wed, Feb 22 2006 3:30PM
Subject: Re: Desktop Publishing to Accessible Webs
← Previous message | Next message →

On 2/22/06, Austin, Darrel

> Ideally, you'd then be going from that source document to both web and
> to print.
>
> Based on your set up, I'd suggest channging the workflow. Start in HTML.
> Have someone write the articles in clean, simple, semantic HTML. This
> could even be done in MS Word if the person is capable of using Word
> formatting properly and you have access to something like HTML Tidy to
> clean up the markup.
>
> Then, from there, send a copy to the print designer, and a copy to the
> web designer and have them publish from there.


I agree with this. To me this sounds more like a process issue and less of
a technical issue.

The key, I think, is to branch higher in the process -- but after the
content is finalized -- rather than trying to do the branching at the very
end of the process.

As for Kevin's "but what do I do now?" question -- to be honest, I would ask
for files farther up the line. The newsletter wasn't, in all likelihood,
authored in MS Publisher. Somewhere there exists a Word or HTML or text
file of each article, and somewhere there are the original graphics files
used. Is there any chance you can get ahold of those?

Here's my experience in this. When I worked at Harvey Mudd College, one of
the challenges dealt with coming up with a process for getting the school
catalog online accessibly, which until then had been simply a PDF file. I
did exactly what was described above (and by Darrel) which was to examine
the process of creating the document.

It went something like this: The parts of the catalog were created in Word,
and these Word files were stored for later editing. Then the Word files got
shipped off to the DTP folks, who transformed them into Publisher (or
something morally equivalent) files, which then were sent to the printer.
Also, just at the printer step, a PDF was generated which was published on
the web.

The problem is that it's darned near impossible to go from Publisher and/or
Publisher-printed-as-PDF to useful HTML versions. So that was the wrong
place in the process to spin out an HTML version. Instead, we went in at the
point where the Word files were created; I got ahold of the Word files
because, ultimately, it's not THAT hard to convert a plain Word file to
HTML.

Anyway, I hope this is helpful and not dismissive -- I understand the bind
you're in, but I think you are dealing with what sounds like a basically
dysfunctional publishing process, and that needs to be addressed first.

--Kynn

From: Austin, Darrel
Date: Wed, Feb 22 2006 3:50PM
Subject: RE: Desktop Publishing to Accessible Webs
← Previous message | Next message →

> Just not sure if we can have the
> people who develop the newsletter (who granted, are not
> technical) learn a completely new method.

It doesn't have to be a huge step.

Get them to write the text in MS Word to begin with, then show them how
to properly make a headline (choose HEADER 1) as opposed to the more
common method (they pick PURPLE, 36pt, Comic Sans, Italic).

The former is structured. When you export that document as HTML, the
HTML will know to make that a H1. The latter is completely meaningless,
and will do nothing to help you make an accessible web page.

The key is the EXPORT step. You need to use something like HTML Tidy to
REALLY clean the HTML up nice.

At that point, the DTP folks can then cut and past from Word, and the
HTML folks can do what they want with the HTML export.

> I should also mention that I'm trying to cut back on caffeine.
> Therefore, wherever I mentioned "Frontpage", I meant "MS Publisher".
> Both of those give me the shudders, and I think my
> subconscious simply lumped them into the mental filing
> cabinet of "things that suck."

If accessibility is a concern, then getting rid of both of those apps
probably wouldn't hurt ;o)

> But the other problem I listed, of course, is what to do now.
> I've got an MS Publisher file that I need to get converted. I
> can use their built-in exporter to html, but the code is so
> dirty I can't do anything with it.

Right, if the ONLY source file you have is MS Publisher, you're probably
stuck with cutting, pasting, and reformatting the HTML by hand.

Hopefully, they can see the value in spending a bit of money on a better
workflow/software rather than paying you to do this all by hand. ;o)

Good luck!

-Darrel

From: John Foliot - WATS.ca
Date: Thu, Feb 23 2006 6:20AM
Subject: RE: Desktop Publishing to Accessible Webs
← Previous message | Next message →

Sesock, Kevin A wrote:
> Both of those give me the shudders, and I think my subconscious
> simply lumped them into the mental filing cabinet of "things that
> suck."

Ahhh.... Here's your problem. You have mis-filed both apps in the wrong
filing cabinet. It's two further down, under "Things that Totally and
Completely Suck (and should *NEVER* be used on the web)" - it's right
there, next to the trash bin...

JF

From: Ouida Myers
Date: Fri, Feb 24 2006 5:40PM
Subject: Re: Desktop Publishing to Accessible Webs
← Previous message | Next message →

Kevin,
I just completed a workshop in Adobe's InDesign. It is taking the place of PageMaker. It has an export option for tagged pdf. I've used the tagging option in Acrobat to set up the structure for your document. That might work for you, but I'm not an expert like most on this list.

Ouida Myers

Ouida W. Myers
Grant Consultant and Administrator
Instructional Technologies
North Carolina Department of Public Instruction
6364 Mail Service Center
Raleigh, NC 27601-6364
(919) 807-3271
FAX (919) 807-3290

http://www.ncwiseowl.org/Impact/div_it/
********************************************
All e-mail correspondence to and from this
address is subject to the North Carolina
Public Records Law, which may result in
monitoring and disclosure to third parties,
including law enforcement.

In compliance with federal laws, N C Public
Schools administers all state-operated
educational programs, employment activities
and admissions without discrimination because
of race, religion, national or ethnic origin,
color, age, military service, disability, or
gender, except where exemption is appropriate
and allowed by law.

Inquiries or complaints should be directed to:
Dr. Elsie C. Leak, Associate Superintendent
Office of Curriculum and School Reform Services
6307 Mail Service Center
Raleigh, NC 27699-6307
Telephone (919) 807-3761
Fax (919) 807-3767

>>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = 2/22/2006 4:30:03 PM >>>

Two issues for the list.

One, is anyone aware of any desktop publishing package that will convert
to an accessible web? Every semester, our office puts out a paper
newsletter that then has to be converted to the web. So far, I've tried
out FrontPage and PageMaker, and neither seem to create clean HTML that
is highly usable (FrontPage, of course, being the most horrific).

Two, is there any converter, somewhat in the spirit of the Microsoft
Office Accessible Web Publishing Wizard from the University of Illinois,
for either PageMaker or FrontPage?

Thanks, all, in advance.

Kevin A. Sesock, A+, Net+, CNA, MCSA
Assistive Technology Specialist
Student Disability Services
Division of Student Affairs
Oklahoma State University

http://access.it.okstate.edu

"Hail to the speaker, hail to the knower. Joy to he who has understood,
delight to they who have listened." - Odin

From: Ouida Myers
Date: Fri, Feb 24 2006 5:50PM
Subject: Re: Desktop Publishing to Accessible Webs
← Previous message | No next message

I mean I've used the tagging option to set up the structure for my documents. Too late in the day for this.

Ouida W. Myers
Grant Consultant and Administrator
Instructional Technologies
North Carolina Department of Public Instruction
6364 Mail Service Center
Raleigh, NC 27601-6364
(919) 807-3271
FAX (919) 807-3290

http://www.ncwiseowl.org/Impact/div_it/
********************************************
All e-mail correspondence to and from this
address is subject to the North Carolina
Public Records Law, which may result in
monitoring and disclosure to third parties,
including law enforcement.

In compliance with federal laws, N C Public
Schools administers all state-operated
educational programs, employment activities
and admissions without discrimination because
of race, religion, national or ethnic origin,
color, age, military service, disability, or
gender, except where exemption is appropriate
and allowed by law.

Inquiries or complaints should be directed to:
Dr. Elsie C. Leak, Associate Superintendent
Office of Curriculum and School Reform Services
6307 Mail Service Center
Raleigh, NC 27699-6307
Telephone (919) 807-3761
Fax (919) 807-3767

>>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = 2/24/2006 7:34 PM >>>

Kevin,
I just completed a workshop in Adobe's InDesign. It is taking the place of PageMaker. It has an export option for tagged pdf. I've used the tagging option in Acrobat to set up the structure for your document. That might work for you, but I'm not an expert like most on this list.

Ouida Myers

Ouida W. Myers
Grant Consultant and Administrator
Instructional Technologies
North Carolina Department of Public Instruction
6364 Mail Service Center
Raleigh, NC 27601-6364
(919) 807-3271
FAX (919) 807-3290

http://www.ncwiseowl.org/Impact/div_it/
********************************************
All e-mail correspondence to and from this
address is subject to the North Carolina
Public Records Law, which may result in
monitoring and disclosure to third parties,
including law enforcement.

In compliance with federal laws, N C Public
Schools administers all state-operated
educational programs, employment activities
and admissions without discrimination because
of race, religion, national or ethnic origin,
color, age, military service, disability, or
gender, except where exemption is appropriate
and allowed by law.

Inquiries or complaints should be directed to:
Dr. Elsie C. Leak, Associate Superintendent
Office of Curriculum and School Reform Services
6307 Mail Service Center
Raleigh, NC 27699-6307
Telephone (919) 807-3761
Fax (919) 807-3767

>>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = 2/22/2006 4:30:03 PM >>>

Two issues for the list.

One, is anyone aware of any desktop publishing package that will convert
to an accessible web? Every semester, our office puts out a paper
newsletter that then has to be converted to the web. So far, I've tried
out FrontPage and PageMaker, and neither seem to create clean HTML that
is highly usable (FrontPage, of course, being the most horrific).

Two, is there any converter, somewhat in the spirit of the Microsoft
Office Accessible Web Publishing Wizard from the University of Illinois,
for either PageMaker or FrontPage?

Thanks, all, in advance.

Kevin A. Sesock, A+, Net+, CNA, MCSA
Assistive Technology Specialist
Student Disability Services
Division of Student Affairs
Oklahoma State University

http://access.it.okstate.edu

"Hail to the speaker, hail to the knower. Joy to he who has understood,
delight to they who have listened." - Odin