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Thread: screen reader open source?
Number of posts in this thread: 16 (In chronological order)
From: js ba
Date: Thu, Nov 16 2006 5:10PM
Subject: screen reader open source?
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Hello everyone. I am new to the list and have a question regarding screen readers. Is there a viable one out there that is economically reasonable? Which one would be suggested that can get the most out of OS, browsers as well as applications? And limit compatibility issues? Is there an open source one?
Thank you,
js
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From: Joshue O Connor
Date: Fri, Nov 17 2006 4:20AM
Subject: Re: screen reader open source?
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Hi JS,
For an open source screen reader you could try Orca.
http://live.gnome.org/Orca
Josh
js ba wrote:
> Hello everyone. I am new to the list and have a question regarding screen readers. Is there a viable one out there that is economically reasonable? Which one would be suggested that can get the most out of OS, browsers as well as applications? And limit compatibility issues? Is there an open source one?
> Thank you,
> js
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Sponsored Link
>
> Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month. Intro-*Terms
>
>
>
>
>
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From: js ba
Date: Fri, Nov 17 2006 5:20PM
Subject: Re: screen reader open source?
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Thank you Josh I will try it with those I work with
who need screen reader.
js
--- Joshue O Connor < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi JS,
>
> For an open source screen reader you could try Orca.
>
> http://live.gnome.org/Orca
>
> Josh
>
> js ba wrote:
> > Hello everyone. I am new to the list and have a
> question regarding screen readers. Is there a viable
> one out there that is economically reasonable? Which
> one would be suggested that can get the most out of
> OS, browsers as well as applications? And limit
> compatibility issues? Is there an open source one?
> > Thank you,
> > js
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Sponsored Link
> >
> > Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan
> for $579 a month. Intro-*Terms
> >
> > To manage your subscription, visit
> http://list.webaim.org/
> > Address list messages to
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >
> >
>
>
>
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From: DONALD WONNELL
Date: Mon, Nov 20 2006 5:40AM
Subject: Re: screen reader open source?
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JS - One that's often used is JAWS, but it's about $1,000. Don Wonnell,
Ohio Job & Family Svcs. / LMI
>>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = 11/17/2006 7:11 PM >>>
Thank you Josh I will try it with those I work with
who need screen reader.
js
--- Joshue O Connor < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi JS,
>
> For an open source screen reader you could try Orca.
>
> http://live.gnome.org/Orca
>
> Josh
>
> js ba wrote:
> > Hello everyone. I am new to the list and have a
> question regarding screen readers. Is there a viable
> one out there that is economically reasonable? Which
> one would be suggested that can get the most out of
> OS, browsers as well as applications? And limit
> compatibility issues? Is there an open source one?
> > Thank you,
> > js
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Sponsored Link
> >
> > Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan
> for $579 a month. Intro-*Terms
> >
> > To manage your subscription, visit
> http://list.webaim.org/
> > Address list messages to
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >
> >
>
>
>
********************************************************************
>
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> Please note that the statements and views expressed
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>
>
********************************************************************
>
>
>
> To manage your subscription, visit
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> Address list messages to
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
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From: Tim Beadle
Date: Mon, Nov 20 2006 8:50AM
Subject: Re: screen reader open source?
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On 20/11/06, DONALD WONNELL < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> JS - One that's often used is JAWS, but it's about $1,000.
And you can buy a Mac Mini for less than that; Mac OS X (since 10.4)
includes a screen-reader (VoiceOver) by default. I think Alistair at
Nomensa did a review a little while ago.
The next version of OS X (Leopard) has even more accessibility enhancements:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/accessibility.html
Regards,
Tim
From: Patrick Lauke
Date: Mon, Nov 20 2006 9:00AM
Subject: Re: screen reader open source?
← Previous message | Next message →
> Tim Beadle
> And you can buy a Mac Mini for less than that; Mac OS X (since 10.4)
> includes a screen-reader (VoiceOver) by default. I think Alistair at
> Nomensa did a review a little while ago.
Yup. http://www.nomensa.com/resources/articles/accessibility-articles/screen-reading-with-apples.html
P
________________________________
Patrick H. Lauke
Web Editor / University of Salford
http://www.salford.ac.uk
________________________________
Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
________________________________
From: Cheryl D Wise
Date: Mon, Nov 20 2006 10:30AM
Subject: Re: screen reader open source?
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Windows has had Narrator for the last couple of versions and it is improved
in Vista.
Cheryl D Wise
MS MVP FrontPage
http://by-expression.com
Online instructor led training http://starttoweb.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Beadle
On 20/11/06, DONALD WONNELL < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> JS - One that's often used is JAWS, but it's about $1,000.
And you can buy a Mac Mini for less than that; Mac OS X (since 10.4)
includes a screen-reader (VoiceOver) by default. I think Alistair at
Nomensa did a review a little while ago.
The next version of OS X (Leopard) has even more accessibility enhancements:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/accessibility.html
From: js ba
Date: Mon, Nov 20 2006 3:50PM
Subject: Re: screen reader open source?
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Thank you everyone for info regarding open source screen readers. The issues that I run into is due to the following situation. The computers I am setting up with assistive technology needs to be for the computers that I can get. Basically meaning that i refurbish and setup the computers per whatever OS and system hardware is donated. Rarely are new systems or hardware within my reach. I am able to do grant writing for specific projects I work on, but i need to be able to 'give' these computers out free with no strings attached and make sure that no one encounters a need for troubleshooting after these computers are in the individuals homes (which can be within WI or Illinois). I also have to make sure the technology works for the individual specifically and teach them whatever is viable for each individual situation. So if anyone has any suggestions in regard to these issues please feel free to email me either in the WebAIM list or independently. I welcome any feedback or
suggestions.
Thanks again,
js (josephine)
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From: Alastair Campbell
Date: Tue, Nov 21 2006 3:10PM
Subject: Re: screen reader open source?
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> And you can buy a Mac Mini for less than that; Mac OS X (since 10.4)
> includes a screen-reader (VoiceOver) by default. I think Alistair at
> Nomensa did a review a little while ago.
I've been meaning to do an update to that, there were a couple of things
that aren't quite as hard as I thought. I got halfway there with this:
http://alastairc.ac/2006/08/the-potential-of-voiceover/
But I need a little more time than I have right now.
It has a lot of potential, from what I can tell the approach Apple have
taken is solid and makes the step of creating accessible applications
much easier for other developers. However, there are a few 'required'
applications for some people (work wise) that aren't accessible (e.g. MS
Office). iTunes is another sore point.
As a not-very-often user, the experience is much nicer with Voiceover
than Jaws, mostly because of the smoother voice and the stability. The
voice aspect probably isn't much better for an experienced user who
listens to it quicker than I do, but the next version is supposed to be
optimised for that.
If it picks up on structural code in HTML, and gets (or adds) support
for some required apps, it will be a contender, especially at that
price.
Kind regards,
-Alastair
--
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t. +44 (0)117 929 7333 | m. 07970 879 653
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From: Joshue O Connor
Date: Wed, Nov 22 2006 2:50AM
Subject: Re: screen reader open source?
← Previous message | Next message →
Alastair Campbell wrote:
>> As a not-very-often user, the experience is much nicer with Voiceover
>> than Jaws, mostly because of the smoother voice and the stability.
Many of our service users in Ireland have also been very impressed with
Voiceover and as Alastair mentions like the 'feel' of the application.
The whole experience of using Voiceover is smoother that JAWS, its much
less mechanical, and I don't think its just down to the voice synthesis.
I think that is also down to small things like the delay between
activating a keystroke and command activation (if that makes sense), it
just seems richer. I would love to see it developed further and hope
that Apple have plans to do so. Maybe the fact that Microsoft have
improved Narrator in Vista (and lets face it, that wouldn't be hard)
will mean that the development of a fully featured native screen reader
embedded in the OS could become a reality; In the year 2525.
At the ICCHP conference this year I did seriously suggest to Rob
Sinclair that Microsoft should just go ahead and buy Freedom Scientific
and merge JAWS with the Windows OS. Ain't gonna happen, but they have
the cash, so all you can do is ask. Or how about a higher spec version
of Windows for people with disabilities that has more developed AT apps
like a screen reader (licensed from FS or GW Micro) built in?
>> If it picks up on structural code in HTML, and gets (or adds) support
>> for some required apps, it will be a contender, especially at that
>> price.
Definitely. If Apple even added basic structural navigation capability
that would be a leap forward.
Josh
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From: Cheryl D Wise
Date: Wed, Nov 22 2006 8:10AM
Subject: Re: screen reader open source?
← Previous message | Next message →
I don't think that day will come not because of Microsoft but because of
anti-trust legislation particularly in the EU. Anytime Microsoft adds
something to the OS that there is already a third party solution it seem the
EU slaps a fine on or demands that it not be included in any OS version
released in Europe.
You have somewhat better luck with Apple since the European Commission
doesn't seem to see any problem with Apple adding features to the OS.
Note: I own both Windows and Apple computers so don't think I'm OS bashing
here.
Cheryl D Wise
WiserWays LLC
-----Original Message-----
From: Joshue O Connor
Maybe the fact that Microsoft have
improved Narrator in Vista (and lets face it, that wouldn't be hard)
will mean that the development of a fully featured native screen reader
embedded in the OS could become a reality; In the year 2525.
At the ICCHP conference this year I did seriously suggest to Rob
Sinclair that Microsoft should just go ahead and buy Freedom Scientific
and merge JAWS with the Windows OS. Ain't gonna happen, but they have
the cash, so all you can do is ask. Or how about a higher spec version
of Windows for people with disabilities that has more developed AT apps
like a screen reader (licensed from FS or GW Micro) built in?
From: Gareth Dart
Date: Wed, Nov 22 2006 8:20AM
Subject: Re: screen reader open source?
← Previous message | Next message →
I doubt that the EU would be unsympathetic to the argument that a screenreader is required to fulfil accessibility requirements. Microsoft could argue, rightly, that by denying them the right to include screenreading software out of the box, the EU is denying them the ability to meet it's own (or member states') accessibility legislation.
G
Cheryl D Wise wrote:
>I don't think that day will come not because of Microsoft but because of
>anti-trust legislation particularly in the EU. Anytime Microsoft adds
>something to the OS that there is already a third party solution it seem the
>EU slaps a fine on or demands that it not be included in any OS version
>released in Europe.
>
>You have somewhat better luck with Apple since the European Commission
>doesn't seem to see any problem with Apple adding features to the OS.
>
>Note: I own both Windows and Apple computers so don't think I'm OS bashing
>here.
>
>Cheryl D Wise
>WiserWays LLC
From: Joshue O Connor
Date: Wed, Nov 22 2006 8:50AM
Subject: Re: screen reader open source?
← Previous message | Next message →
>> I don't think that day will come not because of Microsoft but because of
>> anti-trust legislation particularly in the EU. Anytime Microsoft adds
>> something to the OS that there is already a third party solution it seem the
>> EU slaps a fine on or demands that it not be included in any OS version
>> released in Europe.
I hadn't considered that, and you are right that it could be an issue.
It would be great PR for Microsoft though, I can see the headlines.
"Uncle Bill wants to help blind users by including a native screen
reader but evil EU denies them in 'inhumane' anti-trust case."
Its good spin. (Maybe I should CC this to MS?)
Gareth said:
> I doubt that the EU would be unsympathetic to the argument that a screenreader is required to fulfil accessibility requirements.
>Microsoft could argue, rightly, that by denying them the right to include screenreading software out of the box, the EU is denying them
>the ability to meet it's own (or member states') accessibility legislation.
Thats also good spin :)
Anyway, bashing Microsoft for bundling the media player is obviously the
more acceptable face of anti-trust legislation.
Josh
Cheryl D Wise wrote:
> I don't think that day will come not because of Microsoft but because of
> anti-trust legislation particularly in the EU. Anytime Microsoft adds
> something to the OS that there is already a third party solution it seem the
> EU slaps a fine on or demands that it not be included in any OS version
> released in Europe.
>
> You have somewhat better luck with Apple since the European Commission
> doesn't seem to see any problem with Apple adding features to the OS.
>
> Note: I own both Windows and Apple computers so don't think I'm OS bashing
> here.
>
>
> Cheryl D Wise
> WiserWays LLC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshue O Connor
>
>
> Maybe the fact that Microsoft have
> improved Narrator in Vista (and lets face it, that wouldn't be hard)
> will mean that the development of a fully featured native screen reader
> embedded in the OS could become a reality; In the year 2525.
>
> At the ICCHP conference this year I did seriously suggest to Rob
> Sinclair that Microsoft should just go ahead and buy Freedom Scientific
> and merge JAWS with the Windows OS. Ain't gonna happen, but they have
> the cash, so all you can do is ask. Or how about a higher spec version
> of Windows for people with disabilities that has more developed AT apps
> like a screen reader (licensed from FS or GW Micro) built in?
>
>
>
********************************************************************
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transmitted. We therefore recommend you scan all attachments.
Please note that the statements and views expressed in this email
and any attachments are those of the author and do not necessarily
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From: Alastair Campbell
Date: Wed, Nov 22 2006 9:00AM
Subject: Re: screen reader open source?
← Previous message | Next message →
Cheryl D Wise wrote:
> You have somewhat better luck with Apple since the European Commission
> doesn't seem to see any problem with Apple adding features to the OS.
You also have to consider that OSX was available for several years
without any 3rd party stepping in to produce a screen reader. MS and
Apple aren't in the same position for several reasons.
> Note: I own both Windows and Apple computers so don't think
> I'm OS bashing here.
Me to. Unfortunately, although I prefer OSX I have to use Windows more.
Kind regards,
-Alastair
--
Alastair Campbell | Director of User Experience
Nomensa Email Disclaimer:
http://www.nomensa.com/email-disclaimer.html
From: Joshue O Connor
Date: Wed, Nov 22 2006 9:10AM
Subject: Re: screen reader open source?
← Previous message | Next message →
> Not to take this too far off track, but I think the gripe with MS isn't
> necessarily 'bundling' but 'hard-wired integration'.
Good point Darrel.
Josh
Austin, Darrel wrote:
>> Anyway, bashing Microsoft for bundling the media player is
>> obviously the more acceptable face of anti-trust legislation.
>
> Not to take this too far off track, but I think the gripe with MS isn't
> necessarily 'bundling' but 'hard-wired integration'. Apple bundles
> Safari, for instance, bu MS integrates IE directly with the OS, though.
> You can't easily uninstall IE.
>
> Looking at this screen reader from Apple, it appears similar. It's an
> app that is bundled with OSX that you can install separately, but it
> isn't tied directly into the operating system.
>
> -Darrel
>
>
>
>
>
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From: Austin, Darrel
Date: Wed, Nov 22 2006 9:30AM
Subject: Re: screen reader open source?
← Previous message | No next message
> Anyway, bashing Microsoft for bundling the media player is
> obviously the more acceptable face of anti-trust legislation.
Not to take this too far off track, but I think the gripe with MS isn't
necessarily 'bundling' but 'hard-wired integration'. Apple bundles
Safari, for instance, bu MS integrates IE directly with the OS, though.
You can't easily uninstall IE.
Looking at this screen reader from Apple, it appears similar. It's an
app that is bundled with OSX that you can install separately, but it
isn't tied directly into the operating system.
-Darrel