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Thread: best text to speech ap to show my non-geek sighted friends?
Number of posts in this thread: 7 (In chronological order)
From: shawn klein
Date: Sun, Feb 24 2008 10:10AM
Subject: best text to speech ap to show my non-geek sighted friends?
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Hi. I meet lots of sighted people on line who are
interested in how I use a computer, but I don't think
they're all quite computer savvy enough or would want
to take the time to install a demo version of Window
Eyes or Jaws, and I know that Jaws and Window Eyes
interfere with the normal use of the mouse for people
who aren't used to having a screen reader running.
Example: they can't fill out forms in the normal way,
and Jaws shakes the mouse pointer when it speaks. At
least Connect Outloud did when I had it 4 years ago. I
don't know if this applies to NVDA or not. If not I'd
like to know, because that might be the perfect choice
then. NVDA doesn't play nice with IE, but I can warn
them away from having IE open with NVDA running.
Narrator would be great, but it doesn't even recognize
all the voices I have on MY computer. The only voice
choice is Sam. This isn't good for some of my friends
who speak little or no English. And to tell you the
truth I wouldn't wish Sam on my worst enemy! Anyone
have any ideas for something free, compact, requires
minimal set up, and at least will read what someone
types in the window, and works with something like Via
Voice or Espeak, and allows you to choose voice and
language, and allows you to change settings with the
mouse so they don't have to learn keyboard shortcuts?
I know of one like that, but it just works with Skype,
and not everybody has or wants Skype. Thanks for any ideas.
From: Phil Teare
Date: Sun, Feb 24 2008 10:40AM
Subject: Re: best text to speech ap to show my non-geek sighted friends?
← Previous message | Next message →
For the greatest ease you could point them to www.chatterblogs.net
Interest declared!
While its yet to fully catch-up to JAWS etc. it now has most of the features
of a full blown screen reader, but is web based, and needs no install for
the vast majority of users (see www.talklets.com for fuller specs etc).
While the blog site is more fully featured, it is beta, and so less stable
under heavy fire... Free to use though, and may give a good overview. Plus
the voice is a bit better than Sam ;)
Best
Phil
On 24/02/2008, shawn klein < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Hi. I meet lots of sighted people on line who are
> interested in how I use a computer, but I don't think
> they're all quite computer savvy enough or would want
> to take the time to install a demo version of Window
> Eyes or Jaws, and I know that Jaws and Window Eyes
> interfere with the normal use of the mouse for people
> who aren't used to having a screen reader running.
> Example: they can't fill out forms in the normal way,
> and Jaws shakes the mouse pointer when it speaks. At
> least Connect Outloud did when I had it 4 years ago. I
> don't know if this applies to NVDA or not. If not I'd
> like to know, because that might be the perfect choice
> then. NVDA doesn't play nice with IE, but I can warn
> them away from having IE open with NVDA running.
> Narrator would be great, but it doesn't even recognize
> all the voices I have on MY computer. The only voice
> choice is Sam. This isn't good for some of my friends
> who speak little or no English. And to tell you the
> truth I wouldn't wish Sam on my worst enemy! Anyone
> have any ideas for something free, compact, requires
> minimal set up, and at least will read what someone
> types in the window, and works with something like Via
> Voice or Espeak, and allows you to choose voice and
> language, and allows you to change settings with the
> mouse so they don't have to learn keyboard shortcuts?
> I know of one like that, but it just works with Skype,
> and not everybody has or wants Skype. Thanks for any ideas.
>
>
>
>
From: tedd
Date: Sun, Feb 24 2008 1:20PM
Subject: Re: best text to speech ap to show my non-geek sighted friends?
← Previous message | Next message →
At 9:08 AM -0800 2/24/08, shawn klein wrote:
> Anyone
>have any ideas for something free, compact, requires
>minimal set up, and at least will read what someone
>types in the window, ...
I don't know if this would help or not, but I am sure that I could
make it speak a form.
http://www.php1.net/b/speech/index.php
Cheers,
tedd
--
-------
http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com
From: shawn klein
Date: Fri, Feb 29 2008 6:10PM
Subject: Re: best text to speech ap to show my non-geek sighted friends?
← Previous message | Next message →
Thanks Phil. The blog is interesting, but a bit slow
to respond. This may just be because my computer is
4-1/2 years old with only 768 MB of ram. My download
speed is 1.5 mb/s, but my upload speed is only 256
kb/s, this could also effect things. I had a bit of
trouble understanding some of what the voice was
saying in regards to the hotkeys, but I couldn't make
it spell what I missed. I played it 3 times before I
got it, all but one. It seems to be saying that X
takes you to the next dive. Although it seems to take
you to the next line of text. I had to think for a
second before I realized that full stop must be
period. I tested NB, which put me in input mode, but
then f8 didn't work. I had to press f9 twice to get
out of input mode, but this may be because I was using
Firefox. Natural voices are cool, but I think they
have a ways to go. There's a lot of yodel going on. My
biggest issue was some lack of feedback. When you are
working with something that's slow to react, lack of
feedback is troublesome. I think that's what it was
anyway, sometimes I would press x to go to the next
line and would hear nothing. Is it running into blank
lines? I didn't notice so many blank lines with Window
Eyes. I did shut down Window Eyes first, the second
time I tried it, then brought up the page. This to
make sure hotkeys wouldn't conflict.
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> > Today's Topics:
>
> 1. best text to speech ap to show my non-geek
> sighted friends?
> (shawn klein)
> 2. Re: best text to speech ap to show my non-geek
> sighted
> friends? (Phil Teare)
> > Subject: [WebAIM] best text to speech ap to show
my
> non-geek sighted friends?
> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 09:08:53 -0800 (PST)
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> From: shawn klein < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
> Hi. I meet lots of sighted people on line who are
> interested in how I use a computer, but I don't
> think
> they're all quite computer savvy enough or would
> want
> to take the time to install a demo version of Window
> Eyes or Jaws, and I know that Jaws and Window Eyes
> interfere with the normal use of the mouse for
> people
> who aren't used to having a screen reader running.
> Example: they can't fill out forms in the normal
> way,
> and Jaws shakes the mouse pointer when it speaks. At
> least Connect Outloud did when I had it 4 years ago.
> I
> don't know if this applies to NVDA or not. If not
> I'd
> like to know, because that might be the perfect
> choice
> then. NVDA doesn't play nice with IE, but I can warn
> them away from having IE open with NVDA running.
> Narrator would be great, but it doesn't even
> recognize
> all the voices I have on MY computer. The only voice
> choice is Sam. This isn't good for some of my
> friends
> who speak little or no English. And to tell you the
> truth I wouldn't wish Sam on my worst enemy! Anyone
> have any ideas for something free, compact, requires
> minimal set up, and at least will read what someone
> types in the window, and works with something like
> Via
> Voice or Espeak, and allows you to choose voice and
> language, and allows you to change settings with the
> mouse so they don't have to learn keyboard
> shortcuts?
> I know of one like that, but it just works with
> Skype,
> and not everybody has or wants Skype. Thanks for any
> ideas.
>
>
>
>
From: Phil Teare
Date: Sat, Mar 01 2008 7:20AM
Subject: Re: best text to speech ap to show my non-geek sighted friends?
← Previous message | Next message →
Thank so much for all the feedback.
Some responses:
On 01/03/2008, shawn klein < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Thanks Phil. The blog is interesting, but a bit slow
> to respond. This may just be because my computer is
> 4-1/2 years old with only 768 MB of ram. My download
> speed is 1.5 mb/s, but my upload speed is only 256
> kb/s, this could also effect things.
This shouldn't usually be a problem. Text that is not yet cached (the blogs
cache was deleted two days ago, so most of it) will take a little while to
respond, but is always usable - within reason). Text that is cached should
read very quickly (sub 400ms). We're currently working on reducing this
further, and for uncached text). The biggest performance hinderance is if
your using Firebug or similar on FF. Its still usable, but much slower if
you have firebug installed and active. Can I ask if you had this or similar
running?
I had a bit of
> trouble understanding some of what the voice was
> saying in regards to the hotkeys, but I couldn't make
> it spell what I missed.
I've added to the roadmap. It will make it into 2.5 all being well (should
be released at the end of the summer).
I played it 3 times before I
> got it, all but one. It seems to be saying that X
> takes you to the next dive. Although it seems to take
> you to the next line of text.
Sorry, my fault. Chatterblogs is beta, and the instructions are out of
synch. I'll see to it.
I had to think for a
> second before I realized that full stop must be
> period.
Interesting point. We're growing in the US (I'm in the UK), so I'll make
sure instructions get more properly localized. Although, if you're on a uk
site with a UK voice, the laguage with be UK centric.
I tested NB, which put me in input mode, but
> then f8 didn't work.
Again, instructions out of synch. Sorry. 2.0b is looking into simplifying,
and not using an input mode at all. I'll let you know when I've polished
this, and updated the instructions accordingly, if you would like to give
more feedback, I would be hugely grateful.
... may be because I was using
> Firefox.
I go to great lengths to make sure FF and IE are as feature, function, and
frills idendical as is possible. Safari will sometimes be out of sink, but
degrade graceful, to have as much function as is possible (e.g. it doesn't
currently have realtime word by word highlighting, but FF and IE do).
Natural voices are cool, but I think they
> have a ways to go.
I realy like our voices, but voice easthetics will always be very
subjective. Some of the US voices are a little more inteligable, while
retaining the fuidity and elegance. The Talklet system currently allows web
account users to change the voices centrally, we're also looking at allowing
any user to change voices. Licensing issues are the only hold up there
really, but we're looking at this.
We also have our own bespoke voices. So larger customers can even get their
own done (which adds to the variety for everyone else).
My
> biggest issue was some lack of feedback. When you are
> working with something that's slow to react, lack of
> feedback is troublesome. I think that's what it was
> anyway, sometimes I would press x to go to the next
> line and would hear nothing.
x is deprecated in 2.0. Sorry, again, its the instructions on the beta that
should be changed. I'll get on it. However, we want to key the keys a
minimal as possible, so as to not overwhelm new users.
Hope you found it useful.
Best
Phil
--
Phil Teare,
CTO & Chief Architect,
http://www.talklets.com from Textic Ltd.
(44) [0] 208 4452871
From: shawn klein
Date: Sun, Mar 02 2008 4:50PM
Subject: Re: best text to speech ap to show my non-geek sighted friends?
← Previous message | Next message →
OK Phil. I'll be looking forward to trying it when the
instructions are accurate. Yes 400 ms is mighty slow
when you're used to a response time from a screen
reader that seems instantaneous, but I know full well
why it's this way when the screen reader is on a
server half a world away. I'd expect it to be a
virtual tortoise through a dial-up connection, given
the fidelity of the voice, well is the voice streamed,
or is a temporary copy loaded on the user's PC? I'm
wondering how it'll work without an input mode? Do you
just turn off the hotkeys when you want to input
something? Yeah the ability to change the voice, and
the speed of the voice, would be awesome. Later I'll
sign up and try that. I wonder what voice that is? At
first I thought it sounded like Scansoft Emily, but
then I compared them and it doesn't quite. VW Kate,
which is an American voice, and Scansoft Australian
Karen are 2 of the best and clearest voices I've yet
heard personally. It's mostly a process of getting
used to a voice's idiosyncrasies. Eloquence is the
voice I normally use, and it pronounces some things
incorrectly but I've gotten used to the way it does. I
could change every single mispronounced word in the
dictionaries, but I'm a bit lazy in that regard. When
I go to a friend's place where they have a Decktalk
express some pronunciations throw me for a loop, even
though they have no trouble understanding it. In a
pinch I can even understand Spanish or Portuguese read
by US English eloquence, or English read by the
Spanish or Portuguese eloquence voice. It's just what
you're used to. Well actually I'm pretty new to
Firefox so I had to look to see what Firebug was. No I
don't have that one. The only plugins I've actually
manually installed are Adobe flash, and adobe reader.
Well, I don't know which text is cached and which
isn't, but it might be useful to A. have the system
beep when the user has pressed a key but has happened
on blank space with nothing to read, and b. a sort of
rising series of beeps while uncached text is loading,
like the beeps you hear with NVDA while a page is
loading. An audio progress bar so to speak. One more
dumb question, why don't you use arrow key navegation
as well?
Thanks
Shawn
>>message truncated ===> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] best
text to speech ap to show
> my non-geek sighted
> friends?
> Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 14:18:34 +0000
> To: "WebAIM Discussion List"
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> From: "Phil Teare"
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
> Thank so much for all the feedback.
>
> Some responses:
>
>
> On 01/03/2008, shawn klein < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Phil. The blog is interesting, but a bit
> slow
> > to respond. This may just be because my computer
> is
> > 4-1/2 years old with only 768 MB of ram. My
> download
> > speed is 1.5 mb/s, but my upload speed is only 256
> > kb/s, this could also effect things.
>
>
>
> This shouldn't usually be a problem. Text that is
> not yet cached (the blogs
> cache was deleted two days ago, so most of it) will
> take a little while to
> respond, but is always usable - within reason). Text
> that is cached should
> read very quickly (sub 400ms). We're currently
> working on reducing this
> further, and for uncached text). The biggest
> performance hinderance is if
> your using Firebug or similar on FF. Its still
> usable, but much slower if
> you have firebug installed and active. Can I ask if
> you had this or similar
> running?
>
>
> I had a bit of
> > trouble understanding some of what the voice was
> > saying in regards to the hotkeys, but I couldn't
> make
> > it spell what I missed.
>
>
> I've added to the roadmap. It will make it into 2.5
> all being well (should
> be released at the end of the summer).
>
>
> I played it 3 times before I
> > got it, all but one. It seems to be saying that X
> > takes you to the next dive. Although it seems to
> take
> > you to the next line of text.
>
>
> Sorry, my fault. Chatterblogs is beta, and the
> instructions are out of
> synch. I'll see to it.
>
>
> I had to think for a
> > second before I realized that full stop must be
> > period.
>
>
> Interesting point. We're growing in the US (I'm in
> the UK), so I'll make
> sure instructions get more properly localized.
> Although, if you're on a uk
> site with a UK voice, the laguage with be UK
> centric.
>
>
> I tested NB, which put me in input mode, but
> > then f8 didn't work.
>
>
> Again, instructions out of synch. Sorry. 2.0b is
> looking into simplifying,
> and not using an input mode at all. I'll let you
> know when I've polished
> this, and updated the instructions accordingly, if
> you would like to give
> more feedback, I would be hugely grateful.
>
>
> ... may be because I was using
> > Firefox.
>
>
> I go to great lengths to make sure FF and IE are as
> feature, function, and
> frills idendical as is possible. Safari will
> sometimes be out of sink, but
> degrade graceful, to have as much function as is
> possible (e.g. it doesn't
> currently have realtime word by word highlighting,
> but FF and IE do).
>
> Natural voices are cool, but I think they
> > have a ways to go.
>
>
> I realy like our voices, but voice easthetics will
> always be very
> subjective. Some of the US voices are a little more
> inteligable, while
> retaining the fuidity and elegance. The Talklet
> system currently allows web
> account users to change the voices centrally, we're
> also looking at allowing
> any user to change voices. Licensing issues are the
> only hold up there
> really, but we're looking at this.
>
> We also have our own bespoke voices. So larger
> customers can even get their
> own done (which adds to the variety for everyone
> else).
>
>
> My
> > biggest issue was some lack of feedback. When you
> are
> > working with something that's slow to react, lack
> of
> > feedback is troublesome. I think that's what it
> was
> > anyway, sometimes I would press x to go to the
> next
> > line and would hear nothing.
>
>
> x is deprecated in 2.0. Sorry, again, its the
> instructions on the beta that
> should be changed. I'll get on it. However, we want
> to key the keys a
> minimal as possible, so as to not overwhelm new
> users.
>
>
> Hope you found it useful.
>
> Best
> Phil
>
>
> --
> Phil Teare,
> CTO & Chief Architect,
> http://www.talklets.com from Textic Ltd.
> (44) [0] 208 4452871
>
> >
From: Phil Teare
Date: Sun, Mar 02 2008 5:30PM
Subject: Re: best text to speech ap to show my non-geek sighted friends?
← Previous message | No next message
Cheers
On 02/03/2008, shawn klein < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> OK Phil. I'll be looking forward to trying it when the
> instructions are accurate. Yes 400 ms is mighty slow
> when you're used to a response time from a screen
> reader that seems instantaneous, but I know full well
> why it's this way when the screen reader is on a
> server half a world away.
Exactly, however, like I say, we're working on reducing latencies
considerably further. Which is coming on pretty well :)
I'd expect it to be a
> virtual tortoise through a dial-up connection, given
> the fidelity of the voice,
Its not too bad, and we have various compression formats to go at. Though
currently default is the the fairly hi fi mp3 you're hearing.
I'm
> wondering how it'll work without an input mode?
Basically it will simply automatically disable those keys which would
usually be used for input in an input/editable element, but retains those
that aren't. It'll make sense when you play with it.
Yeah the ability to change the voice, and
> the speed of the voice, would be awesome.
On the roadmap, but not sure where. It may fall into 3.x (next year) for
tech reasons I can't go into.
Later I'll
> sign up and try that. I wonder what voice that is?
You're probably hearing UK Loquendo voices (female is more natural and the
male more intelligible), but we use several. I personally still like some
low end voices for reading research stuff (where accuracy and therefore
intelligibility is more important).
> could change every single mispronounced word in the
> dictionaries, but I'm a bit lazy in that regard.
As are most people, which is one of the really cool things about Talklets 2.
You can simply right click on a word (key access is coming very soon - prob
2.5), and submit as mispronounced. We correct it for you. Later we plan to
allow suggested alterations to be submitted (users submitting the phonetic
corrections themselves), and then vetted by other users (all very web 2.0 -
and should build a very cool lexicon db, ours is already many thousands of
entries big, with just us making corrections).
Well, I don't know which text is cached and which
> isn't, but it might be useful to A. have the system
> beep when the user has pressed a key but has happened
> on blank space with nothing to read, and b. a sort of
> rising series of beeps while uncached text is loading,
> like the beeps you hear with NVDA while a page is
> loading.
Another one for the road map (which I could swear it was on, but somehow has
vanished... ). Yes a filler would be useful.
why don't you use arrow key navegation
> as well?
Simply not added yet. But again, they're there in the roadmap for 2.5 (late
summer)
Thanks
> Shawn
No problem
Phil
--
> Phil Teare,
> CTO & Chief Architect,
> http://www.talklets.com from Textic Ltd.
> (44) [0] 208 4452871