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Thread: JAWS 9 - Reading TITLEs of Links
Number of posts in this thread: 10 (In chronological order)
From: David Ashleydale
Date: Wed, Mar 11 2009 1:05PM
Subject: JAWS 9 - Reading TITLEs of Links
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I just did a little JAWS 9 test and I discovered that JAWS won't read the
TITLE attribute of a link if the link contains an image -- even if I've
configured JAWS to read link TITLEs instead of link text.
When I replaced the image with text and asked JAWS to read it to me, it read
the TITLE of the link. I put the image back in and it read the ALT attribute
of the image.
It seems to me that if I've specifically configured JAWS to only read link
TITLEs to me, it should do so regardless of what the link contains.
Is this a known JAWS 9 bug? Does anyone know if this is fixed in JAWS 10?
Thanks,
David Ashleydale
From: Al Sparber
Date: Wed, Mar 11 2009 1:10PM
Subject: Re: JAWS 9 - Reading TITLEs of Links
← Previous message | Next message →
From: "David Ashleydale" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>I just did a little JAWS 9 test and I discovered that JAWS won't read the
> TITLE attribute of a link if the link contains an image -- even if I've
> configured JAWS to read link TITLEs instead of link text.
>
> When I replaced the image with text and asked JAWS to read it to me, it
> read
> the TITLE of the link. I put the image back in and it read the ALT
> attribute
> of the image.
>
> It seems to me that if I've specifically configured JAWS to only read link
> TITLEs to me, it should do so regardless of what the link contains.
>
> Is this a known JAWS 9 bug? Does anyone know if this is fixed in JAWS 10?
Hi David,
That sounds suspiciously like IE default behavior (with respect to how it
behaves visually with Alt and Title attributes). Have you tried the same
test in Firefox?
--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
From: Randall Pope
Date: Wed, Mar 11 2009 2:30PM
Subject: Re: JAWS 9 - Reading TITLEs of Links
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi David,
If you are using Firefox, that is probably the reason why. I personally
have never seen the title attribute display in Firefox, only in IE. But
then I'm not a JAW user.
So this bring up the question: Why use the title attribute?
With Warm Regards,
Randall "Randy" Pope
American Association of the Deaf-Blind
Website: http://www.aadb.org
301 495-4402 VP/TTY
301 495-4403 Voice
301 495-4404 Fax
AIM: RandyAADB
Want to keep up with the latest news in the Deaf-Blind Community? Consider
subscribing to the monthly newsletter, "AADB Today" at http://aadb.org. It's
free and AADB membership is not required.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of David Ashleydale
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 3:04 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] JAWS 9 - Reading TITLEs of Links
I just did a little JAWS 9 test and I discovered that JAWS won't read the
TITLE attribute of a link if the link contains an image -- even if I've
configured JAWS to read link TITLEs instead of link text.
When I replaced the image with text and asked JAWS to read it to me, it read
the TITLE of the link. I put the image back in and it read the ALT attribute
of the image.
It seems to me that if I've specifically configured JAWS to only read link
TITLEs to me, it should do so regardless of what the link contains.
Is this a known JAWS 9 bug? Does anyone know if this is fixed in JAWS 10?
Thanks,
David Ashleydale
From: Cliff Tyllick
Date: Wed, Mar 11 2009 3:30PM
Subject: Re: JAWS 9 - Reading TITLEs of Links
← Previous message | Next message →
Why not put the information into the alt text of the image? JAWS will read alt text, right?
Cliff Tyllick
Web development coordinator
Agency Communications Division
Texas Commission on Environmental Quality
512-239-4516
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> "Randall Pope" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 3/11/2009 3:30 PM >>>
Hi David,
If you are using Firefox, that is probably the reason why. I personally
have never seen the title attribute display in Firefox, only in IE. But
then I'm not a JAW user.
So this bring up the question: Why use the title attribute?
With Warm Regards,
Randall "Randy" Pope
American Association of the Deaf-Blind
Website: http://www.aadb.org
301 495-4402 VP/TTY
301 495-4403 Voice
301 495-4404 Fax
AIM: RandyAADB
Want to keep up with the latest news in the Deaf-Blind Community? Consider
subscribing to the monthly newsletter, "AADB Today" at http://aadb.org. It's
free and AADB membership is not required.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of David Ashleydale
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 3:04 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] JAWS 9 - Reading TITLEs of Links
I just did a little JAWS 9 test and I discovered that JAWS won't read the
TITLE attribute of a link if the link contains an image -- even if I've
configured JAWS to read link TITLEs instead of link text.
When I replaced the image with text and asked JAWS to read it to me, it read
the TITLE of the link. I put the image back in and it read the ALT attribute
of the image.
It seems to me that if I've specifically configured JAWS to only read link
TITLEs to me, it should do so regardless of what the link contains.
Is this a known JAWS 9 bug? Does anyone know if this is fixed in JAWS 10?
Thanks,
David Ashleydale
From: Paul Collins
Date: Thu, Mar 12 2009 4:05AM
Subject: Re: JAWS 9 - Reading TITLEs of Links
← Previous message | Next message →
I'm wondering how many screen reader users actually turn that function on, or stick to the default? Would have been a great question for the WebAIM Screen Reader Survey.
I still avoid using titles for that reason - if I add important information in the title area, I assume it won't be read out by the majority of assistive software users.
Does anyone know the stats on this?
Cheers
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Cliff Tyllick
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:29 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] JAWS 9 - Reading TITLEs of Links
Why not put the information into the alt text of the image? JAWS will read alt text, right?
Cliff Tyllick
Web development coordinator
Agency Communications Division
Texas Commission on Environmental Quality
512-239-4516
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> "Randall Pope" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 3/11/2009 3:30 PM >>>
Hi David,
If you are using Firefox, that is probably the reason why. I personally have never seen the title attribute display in Firefox, only in IE. But then I'm not a JAW user.
So this bring up the question: Why use the title attribute?
With Warm Regards,
Randall "Randy" Pope
American Association of the Deaf-Blind
Website: http://www.aadb.org
301 495-4402 VP/TTY
301 495-4403 Voice
301 495-4404 Fax
AIM: RandyAADB
Want to keep up with the latest news in the Deaf-Blind Community? Consider subscribing to the monthly newsletter, "AADB Today" at http://aadb.org. It's free and AADB membership is not required.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of David Ashleydale
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 3:04 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] JAWS 9 - Reading TITLEs of Links
I just did a little JAWS 9 test and I discovered that JAWS won't read the TITLE attribute of a link if the link contains an image -- even if I've configured JAWS to read link TITLEs instead of link text.
When I replaced the image with text and asked JAWS to read it to me, it read the TITLE of the link. I put the image back in and it read the ALT attribute of the image.
It seems to me that if I've specifically configured JAWS to only read link TITLEs to me, it should do so regardless of what the link contains.
Is this a known JAWS 9 bug? Does anyone know if this is fixed in JAWS 10?
Thanks,
David Ashleydale
From: Egan, Bim
Date: Thu, Mar 12 2009 4:30AM
Subject: Re: JAWS 9 - Reading TITLEs of Links
← Previous message | Next message →
No stats, but I don't know of any JAWS users who do enable the TITLE, as
it's so unpredictably implemented ... and I know quite a few JAWS
users.
ZoomText with Speech users do hear the TITLE attribute value, but its in
addition to, not instead of, link text. Can be quite mind blowing when
the link's a long one and the TITLE just repeats the link.
Bim Egan
RNIB Web Access Team.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Paul Collins
Sent: 12 March 2009 10:04
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] JAWS 9 - Reading TITLEs of Links
I'm wondering how many screen reader users actually turn that function
on, or stick to the default? Would have been a great question for the
WebAIM Screen Reader Survey.
I still avoid using titles for that reason - if I add important
information in the title area, I assume it won't be read out by the
majority of assistive software users.
Does anyone know the stats on this?
Cheers
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Cliff Tyllick
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:29 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] JAWS 9 - Reading TITLEs of Links
Why not put the information into the alt text of the image? JAWS will
read alt text, right?
Cliff Tyllick
Web development coordinator
Agency Communications Division
Texas Commission on Environmental Quality
512-239-4516
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>> "Randall Pope" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 3/11/2009 3:30 PM >>>
Hi David,
If you are using Firefox, that is probably the reason why. I personally
have never seen the title attribute display in Firefox, only in IE. But
then I'm not a JAW user.
So this bring up the question: Why use the title attribute?
With Warm Regards,
Randall "Randy" Pope
American Association of the Deaf-Blind
Website: http://www.aadb.org
301 495-4402 VP/TTY
301 495-4403 Voice
301 495-4404 Fax
AIM: RandyAADB
Want to keep up with the latest news in the Deaf-Blind Community?
Consider subscribing to the monthly newsletter, "AADB Today" at
http://aadb.org. It's free and AADB membership is not required.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of David
Ashleydale
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 3:04 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] JAWS 9 - Reading TITLEs of Links
I just did a little JAWS 9 test and I discovered that JAWS won't read
the TITLE attribute of a link if the link contains an image -- even if
I've configured JAWS to read link TITLEs instead of link text.
When I replaced the image with text and asked JAWS to read it to me, it
read the TITLE of the link. I put the image back in and it read the ALT
attribute of the image.
It seems to me that if I've specifically configured JAWS to only read
link TITLEs to me, it should do so regardless of what the link contains.
Is this a known JAWS 9 bug? Does anyone know if this is fixed in JAWS
10?
Thanks,
David Ashleydale
From: Steven Faulkner
Date: Thu, Mar 12 2009 4:40AM
Subject: Re: JAWS 9 - Reading TITLEs of Links
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi paul,
a small study i did some years back:
http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/articles/WE05/survey.html
indicated that of the users surveyed used the default settings, so did
not get the title attribute content.
regards
steve
2009/3/12 Paul Collins < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >:
> I'm wondering how many screen reader users actually turn that function on, or stick to the default? Would have been a great question for the WebAIM Screen Reader Survey.
>
> I still avoid using titles for that reason - if I add important information in the title area, I assume it won't be read out by the majority of assistive software users.
>
> Does anyone know the stats on this?
> Cheers
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Cliff Tyllick
> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:29 PM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] JAWS 9 - Reading TITLEs of Links
>
> Why not put the information into the alt text of the image? JAWS will read alt text, right?
>
> Cliff Tyllick
> Web development coordinator
> Agency Communications Division
> Texas Commission on Environmental Quality
> 512-239-4516
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>>>> "Randall Pope" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 3/11/2009 3:30 PM >>>
> Hi David,
>
> If you are using Firefox, that is probably the reason why. I personally have never seen the title attribute display in Firefox, only in IE. But then I'm not a JAW user.
>
> So this bring up the question: Why use the title attribute?
>
> With Warm Regards,
> Randall "Randy" Pope
> American Association of the Deaf-Blind
> Website: http://www.aadb.org
>
> 301 495-4402 VP/TTY
> 301 495-4403 Voice
> 301 495-4404 Fax
> AIM: RandyAADB
>
> Want to keep up with the latest news in the Deaf-Blind Community? Consider subscribing to the monthly newsletter, "AADB Today" at http://aadb.org. It's free and AADB membership is not required.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of David Ashleydale
> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 3:04 PM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: [WebAIM] JAWS 9 - Reading TITLEs of Links
>
> I just did a little JAWS 9 test and I discovered that JAWS won't read the TITLE attribute of a link if the link contains an image -- even if I've configured JAWS to read link TITLEs instead of link text.
>
> When I replaced the image with text and asked JAWS to read it to me, it read the TITLE of the link. I put the image back in and it read the ALT attribute of the image.
>
> It seems to me that if I've specifically configured JAWS to only read link TITLEs to me, it should do so regardless of what the link contains.
>
> Is this a known JAWS 9 bug? Does anyone know if this is fixed in JAWS 10?
>
> Thanks,
> David Ashleydale
>
From: Christian Heilmann
Date: Thu, Mar 12 2009 4:45AM
Subject: Re: JAWS 9 - Reading TITLEs of Links
← Previous message | Next message →
Paul Collins wrote:
> I'm wondering how many screen reader users actually turn that function on, or stick to the default? Would have been a great question for the WebAIM Screen Reader Survey.
>
> I still avoid using titles for that reason - if I add important information in the title area, I assume it won't be read out by the majority of assistive software users.
>
> Does anyone know the stats on this?
> Cheers
>
>
Who cares? If it is not a default, so you can't rely on it.
From: Paul Collins
Date: Thu, Mar 12 2009 4:50AM
Subject: Re: JAWS 9 - Reading TITLEs of Links
← Previous message | Next message →
Thanks for your replies. I do remember seeing your study a few years ago Steve. Good stuff.
I guess I'll just stick to what I'm doing then. Wanted to check if something had changed I wasn't aware of!
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Steven Faulkner
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:40 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] JAWS 9 - Reading TITLEs of Links
Hi paul,
a small study i did some years back:
http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/articles/WE05/survey.html
indicated that of the users surveyed used the default settings, so did not get the title attribute content.
regards
steve
2009/3/12 Paul Collins < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >:
> I'm wondering how many screen reader users actually turn that function on, or stick to the default? Would have been a great question for the WebAIM Screen Reader Survey.
>
> I still avoid using titles for that reason - if I add important information in the title area, I assume it won't be read out by the majority of assistive software users.
>
> Does anyone know the stats on this?
> Cheers
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Cliff
> Tyllick
> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:29 PM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] JAWS 9 - Reading TITLEs of Links
>
> Why not put the information into the alt text of the image? JAWS will read alt text, right?
>
> Cliff Tyllick
> Web development coordinator
> Agency Communications Division
> Texas Commission on Environmental Quality
> 512-239-4516
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>>>> "Randall Pope" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 3/11/2009 3:30 PM >>>
> Hi David,
>
> If you are using Firefox, that is probably the reason why. I personally have never seen the title attribute display in Firefox, only in IE. But then I'm not a JAW user.
>
> So this bring up the question: Why use the title attribute?
>
> With Warm Regards,
> Randall "Randy" Pope
> American Association of the Deaf-Blind
> Website: http://www.aadb.org
>
> 301 495-4402 VP/TTY
> 301 495-4403 Voice
> 301 495-4404 Fax
> AIM: RandyAADB
>
> Want to keep up with the latest news in the Deaf-Blind Community? Consider subscribing to the monthly newsletter, "AADB Today" at http://aadb.org. It's free and AADB membership is not required.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of David
> Ashleydale
> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 3:04 PM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: [WebAIM] JAWS 9 - Reading TITLEs of Links
>
> I just did a little JAWS 9 test and I discovered that JAWS won't read the TITLE attribute of a link if the link contains an image -- even if I've configured JAWS to read link TITLEs instead of link text.
>
> When I replaced the image with text and asked JAWS to read it to me, it read the TITLE of the link. I put the image back in and it read the ALT attribute of the image.
>
> It seems to me that if I've specifically configured JAWS to only read link TITLEs to me, it should do so regardless of what the link contains.
>
> Is this a known JAWS 9 bug? Does anyone know if this is fixed in JAWS 10?
>
> Thanks,
> David Ashleydale
>
From: Patrick Lauke
Date: Thu, Mar 12 2009 5:50AM
Subject: Re: JAWS 9 - Reading TITLEs of Links
← Previous message | No next message
> Paul Collins
> I still avoid using titles for that reason - if I add important
information in the title
> area, I assume it won't be read out by the majority of assistive
software users.
Also, title is vaguely enough defined for "advisory information" which
user agents "may ... [render] in a variety of ways"
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#h-7.4.3
So definitely not for important information.
P