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Thread: change in forms mode behaviour in JAWS 12
Number of posts in this thread: 11 (In chronological order)
From: CARIN HEADRICK
Date: Mon, Dec 12 2011 7:33AM
Subject: change in forms mode behaviour in JAWS 12
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Hi. It's been a long time. I've been a slacker on nomail for way too long. But here I am again with a question.
I've noticed something that started new in JAWS 12 and hoped some genius here might have a solution. If you're in forms mode and are tabbing between fields, JAWS 12 has become uber chatty, reading all the way down from the main landmark to where you are, rather than just reading the bleeping form label. I've seen this on 3 separate machines with 3 separate versions of windows.
Don't believe me? zip on over to www.easychirp.com with anything below JAWS 12. Tab between the username and password fields. Then go there with JAWS 12 and do the same. You will notice a whole lotta readin' goin' on that we just don't need. A main landmark has to be present for this to happen.
So, what the bleep new JAWS setting would govern this and how can I make it behave like older JAWS? Although I'm usually an arrower rather than a tabber, there are some circumstances where I'd like to stay in forms mode thankyaverymuch. This new chatty Kathy style behaviour makes it hard to do so.
I've asked the blindtech list and gotten total silence. Hopefully someone here will experience the same behaviour and know what setting I could change. I've looked through what's new and I can't find anything that has changed that would govern this..
Thanks in advance.
Carin
From: David Farough
Date: Mon, Dec 12 2011 8:51AM
Subject: Re: change in forms mode behaviour in JAWS 12
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Carin:
I see your problem and have a suggestion.
This problem seems to occur when your verbosity settings are set to
either beginner mode or intermediate.
Therefore an easy but unnecessarily drastic solution would be to set
your verbosity level to Advanced verbosity for that site.
Another solution would be to configure the individual verbosity
settings in beginner or intermediate modes to uncheck the control group
name setting for that level. This might potentially cause you grief in
some forms that use fieldsets to identify groupings of fields. This
however will have the benefit of changing jaws behaviour in a minimal
way.
If you need further clarification and or instructions, feel free to
contact me directly. My information appears below.
If you think anyone on Blindtech would be interested, feel free to
forward this.
Incidentally if getting Jaws13 is an option, this behaviour has been
reduced. Now when you tab between fields, Jaws now speaks "landmark
region" before each field. At least it's moving in the right
direction.
David Farough
Application Accessibility Coordinator/coordonateur de l'accessibilité
Information Technology Services Directorate /
Direction des services d'information technologiques
Public Service Commission / Commission de la fonction publique
Email / Courriel: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Tel. / Tél: (613) 992-2779 >>> CARIN HEADRICK
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 09:34 AM Monday, December 12, 2011 >>>
I've noticed something that started new in JAWS 12 and hoped some
genius here might have a solution. If you're in forms mode and are
tabbing between fields, JAWS 12 has become uber chatty, reading all the
way down from the main landmark to where you are, rather than just
reading the bleeping form label. I've seen this on 3 separate machines
with 3 separate versions of windows.
Don't believe me? zip on over to www.easychirp.com with anything below
JAWS 12. Tab between the username and password fields. Then go there
with JAWS 12 and do the same. You will notice a whole lotta readin'
goin' on that we just don't need. A main landmark has to be present for
this to happen.
So, what the bleep new JAWS setting would govern this and how can I
make it behave like older JAWS? Although I'm usually an arrower rather
than a tabber, there are some circumstances where I'd like to stay in
forms mode thankyaverymuch. This new chatty Kathy style behaviour makes
it hard to do so.
>
This e-mail message is intended for the named recipient(s) and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. Unauthorized disclosure, copying or
re-transmission is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient or not
authorized by the named recipient(s), or if you have received this
e-mail in error, then please notify the sender immediately and delete
the message and any copies.
>
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et peut contenir de l'information privilégiée, confidentielle ou
soustraite à la communication aux termes des lois applicables. Toute
divulgation non autorisée, toute reproduction ou réacheminement est
interdit. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire de ce courriel, ou n'êtes
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supprimer le courriel et les copies.
From: Ryan Hemphill
Date: Mon, Dec 12 2011 12:39PM
Subject: Re: change in forms mode behaviour in JAWS 12
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Which browsers are you testing on?
Ryan
On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 10:53 AM, David Farough < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> wrote:
> Hi Carin:
> I see your problem and have a suggestion.
>
> This problem seems to occur when your verbosity settings are set to
> either beginner mode or intermediate.
>
> Therefore an easy but unnecessarily drastic solution would be to set
> your verbosity level to Advanced verbosity for that site.
>
> Another solution would be to configure the individual verbosity
> settings in beginner or intermediate modes to uncheck the control group
> name setting for that level. This might potentially cause you grief in
> some forms that use fieldsets to identify groupings of fields. This
> however will have the benefit of changing jaws behaviour in a minimal
> way.
>
> If you need further clarification and or instructions, feel free to
> contact me directly. My information appears below.
> If you think anyone on Blindtech would be interested, feel free to
> forward this.
>
> Incidentally if getting Jaws13 is an option, this behaviour has been
> reduced. Now when you tab between fields, Jaws now speaks "landmark
> region" before each field. At least it's moving in the right
> direction.
>
>
> David Farough
> Application Accessibility Coordinator/coordonateur de l'accessibilité
> Information Technology Services Directorate /
> Direction des services d'information technologiques
> Public Service Commission / Commission de la fonction publique
> Email / Courriel: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Tel. / Tél: (613) 992-2779 >>> CARIN HEADRICK
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 09:34 AM Monday, December 12, 2011 >>>
> I've noticed something that started new in JAWS 12 and hoped some
> genius here might have a solution. If you're in forms mode and are
> tabbing between fields, JAWS 12 has become uber chatty, reading all the
> way down from the main landmark to where you are, rather than just
> reading the bleeping form label. I've seen this on 3 separate machines
> with 3 separate versions of windows.
>
> Don't believe me? zip on over to www.easychirp.com with anything below
> JAWS 12. Tab between the username and password fields. Then go there
> with JAWS 12 and do the same. You will notice a whole lotta readin'
> goin' on that we just don't need. A main landmark has to be present for
> this to happen.
>
> So, what the bleep new JAWS setting would govern this and how can I
> make it behave like older JAWS? Although I'm usually an arrower rather
> than a tabber, there are some circumstances where I'd like to stay in
> forms mode thankyaverymuch. This new chatty Kathy style behaviour makes
> it hard to do so.
>
>
> >
> This e-mail message is intended for the named recipient(s) and may
> contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from
> disclosure under applicable law. Unauthorized disclosure, copying or
> re-transmission is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient or not
> authorized by the named recipient(s), or if you have received this
> e-mail in error, then please notify the sender immediately and delete
> the message and any copies.
> >
> Ce courriel est destiné exclusivement au destinataire mentionné en titre
> et peut contenir de l'information privilégiée, confidentielle ou
> soustraite à la communication aux termes des lois applicables. Toute
> divulgation non autorisée, toute reproduction ou réacheminement est
> interdit. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire de ce courriel, ou n'êtes
> pas autorisé par le destinataire visé, ou encore, si vous l'avez reçu
> par erreur, veuillez le mentionner immédiatement à l'expéditeur et
> supprimer le courriel et les copies.
>
>
From: Ryan Hemphill
Date: Mon, Dec 12 2011 1:15PM
Subject: Re: change in forms mode behaviour in JAWS 12
← Previous message | Next message →
Your bug is directly related to the form itself. I have not tracked down
exactly what can be done to override this problem, but you will note that
focus on any form element (not link, mind you) will automatically trigger
the auto-read that you were talking about.
I agree that it's an annoying one and thanks for bringing it up, as I have
been seeing similar things here and there - but not in a simpler page like
yours, so thanks for that.
I'm going to hammer away at this a little more. No promises, mind you -
but with a little luck I may figure out how to resolve this.
Thanks again for sharing!
Ryan
On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 2:39 PM, Ryan Hemphill < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> wrote:
> Which browsers are you testing on?
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 10:53 AM, David Farough <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> Hi Carin:
>> I see your problem and have a suggestion.
>>
>> This problem seems to occur when your verbosity settings are set to
>> either beginner mode or intermediate.
>>
>> Therefore an easy but unnecessarily drastic solution would be to set
>> your verbosity level to Advanced verbosity for that site.
>>
>> Another solution would be to configure the individual verbosity
>> settings in beginner or intermediate modes to uncheck the control group
>> name setting for that level. This might potentially cause you grief in
>> some forms that use fieldsets to identify groupings of fields. This
>> however will have the benefit of changing jaws behaviour in a minimal
>> way.
>>
>> If you need further clarification and or instructions, feel free to
>> contact me directly. My information appears below.
>> If you think anyone on Blindtech would be interested, feel free to
>> forward this.
>>
>> Incidentally if getting Jaws13 is an option, this behaviour has been
>> reduced. Now when you tab between fields, Jaws now speaks "landmark
>> region" before each field. At least it's moving in the right
>> direction.
>>
>>
>> David Farough
>> Application Accessibility Coordinator/coordonateur de l'accessibilité
>> Information Technology Services Directorate /
>> Direction des services d'information technologiques
>> Public Service Commission / Commission de la fonction publique
>> Email / Courriel: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> Tel. / Tél: (613) 992-2779 >>> CARIN HEADRICK
>> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 09:34 AM Monday, December 12, 2011 >>>
>> I've noticed something that started new in JAWS 12 and hoped some
>> genius here might have a solution. If you're in forms mode and are
>> tabbing between fields, JAWS 12 has become uber chatty, reading all the
>> way down from the main landmark to where you are, rather than just
>> reading the bleeping form label. I've seen this on 3 separate machines
>> with 3 separate versions of windows.
>>
>> Don't believe me? zip on over to www.easychirp.com with anything below
>> JAWS 12. Tab between the username and password fields. Then go there
>> with JAWS 12 and do the same. You will notice a whole lotta readin'
>> goin' on that we just don't need. A main landmark has to be present for
>> this to happen.
>>
>> So, what the bleep new JAWS setting would govern this and how can I
>> make it behave like older JAWS? Although I'm usually an arrower rather
>> than a tabber, there are some circumstances where I'd like to stay in
>> forms mode thankyaverymuch. This new chatty Kathy style behaviour makes
>> it hard to do so.
>>
>>
>> >
>> This e-mail message is intended for the named recipient(s) and may
>> contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from
>> disclosure under applicable law. Unauthorized disclosure, copying or
>> re-transmission is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient or not
>> authorized by the named recipient(s), or if you have received this
>> e-mail in error, then please notify the sender immediately and delete
>> the message and any copies.
>> >
>> Ce courriel est destiné exclusivement au destinataire mentionné en titre
>> et peut contenir de l'information privilégiée, confidentielle ou
>> soustraite à la communication aux termes des lois applicables. Toute
>> divulgation non autorisée, toute reproduction ou réacheminement est
>> interdit. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire de ce courriel, ou n'êtes
>> pas autorisé par le destinataire visé, ou encore, si vous l'avez reçu
>> par erreur, veuillez le mentionner immédiatement à l'expéditeur et
>> supprimer le courriel et les copies.
>>
>>
From: Jared Smith
Date: Mon, Dec 12 2011 1:24PM
Subject: Re: change in forms mode behaviour in JAWS 12
← Previous message | Next message →
On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Ryan Hemphill wrote:
> I'm going to hammer away at this a little more. No promises, mind you -
> but with a little luck I may figure out how to resolve this.
How about reporting this to Freedom Scientific so they can fix this
bug? Nobody from FS is on this list (that I'm aware of). It seems a
better solution to fix at the source rather than suggesting hacks and
settings to work around the bug.
Jared
From: Ryan Hemphill
Date: Mon, Dec 12 2011 1:54PM
Subject: Re: change in forms mode behaviour in JAWS 12
← Previous message | Next message →
Found it.
Here's what you need to do. For whatever reason, the JAWS bug is because
the forms content and the rest of your text are in the same container. I
managed to stop this from happening by separating them into different
containers altogether. I would put your heading in one container and the
form in another. Do not let them be on the same level of the DOM and the
problem should stop.
<div id="container1">
<h1>Heading</h1>
and Content
</div>
<div id="morecontent">More content</div>
<div id="form-container">
<form></form>
</div>
In response to Jared, you're right - the FS team should be resolving this.
I have also found that unless someone tries their hand at a hack, the real
source of the problem remains unknown in many cases, esp when it comes to
screen readers. While getting the bugs fixed is good, I can't wait for FS
to resolve it in their next release or their update of the current version.
Without at least seeing a hack that resolves the problem, it takes longer
to figure out where to look for the source of the issue. I suspect they
already have their hands full. I guess my point is, if they know the hack,
they at least have some idea of where to look.
Ryan
On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Jared Smith < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Ryan Hemphill wrote:
>
> > I'm going to hammer away at this a little more. No promises, mind you -
> > but with a little luck I may figure out how to resolve this.
>
> How about reporting this to Freedom Scientific so they can fix this
> bug? Nobody from FS is on this list (that I'm aware of). It seems a
> better solution to fix at the source rather than suggesting hacks and
> settings to work around the bug.
>
> Jared
>
From: Andrews, David B (DEED)
Date: Mon, Dec 12 2011 2:18PM
Subject: Re: change in forms mode behaviour in JAWS 12
← Previous message | Next message →
The original message said "JAWS 12," and JAWS 13 is already out, and has been for a couple months. So, the question is "does this behavior happen in JAWS 13 as well?"
Dave
From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Mon, Dec 12 2011 3:24PM
Subject: Re: change in forms mode behaviour in JAWS 12
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi
Do you mean that you go to "sign in with Twitter" and the problem is
on that page?
https://twitter.com/oauth/authorize?oauth_token=FVmO2ykQYbIQLn72wms8iuxDLAjyBqN6pGvvIwXAexQ
If so, I can confirm that Jaws 13 (latest update 13.0.527( with IE9
only reads "username required" and "Password required" when I use "e"
or tab to get to these fields.
This applies both with user vrebosity = advanced and beginner.
When I select the main landmark, however, Jaws reads a whole lot of
text, not sure if it is a Jaws bug or webpage problem.
hth, I'd be happy to test with other browsers as of tomorrow (finally
get my new development machine, this one has been on its last leg for
2 months now *grin*).
hth
-B
On 12/12/11, Andrews, David B (DEED) < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> The original message said "JAWS 12," and JAWS 13 is already out, and has
> been for a couple months. So, the question is "does this behavior happen in
> JAWS 13 as well?"
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
From: David Farough
Date: Tue, Dec 13 2011 10:27AM
Subject: Re: change in forms mode behaviour in JAWS 12
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Birkir:
When I was testing this I was using IE8. I was also using Jaws
13.0.527.
When I tabbed between the User name and password fields, Jaws spoke
"Region landmark" and then spoke the appropriate label for the field
with focus.
In version 12 Jaws spoke the main landmark followed by all of the text
between the landmark and the field with focus. I have not tested using
Firefox.
I have since downloaded jaws 13.0.638. Jaws continues to speak region
landmark when you tab to these fields.
When I looked at the enhancements listed for this version, I found the
following:
●JAWS is now less verbose when announcing the start or end of ARIA
regions on Web pages.
David Farough
Application Accessibility Coordinator/coordonateur de l'accessibilité
Information Technology Services Directorate /
Direction des services d'information technologiques
Public Service Commission / Commission de la fonction publique
Email / Courriel: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Tel. / Tél: (613) 992-2779
>>> "Birkir R. Gunnarsson" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 05:24 PM
Monday, December 12, 2011 >>>
Hi
Do you mean that you go to "sign in with Twitter" and the problem is
on that page?
https://twitter.com/oauth/authorize?oauth_token=FVmO2ykQYbIQLn72wms8iuxDLAjyBqN6pGvvIwXAexQ
If so, I can confirm that Jaws 13 (latest update 13.0.527( with IE9
only reads "username required" and "Password required" when I use "e"
or tab to get to these fields.
This applies both with user vrebosity = advanced and beginner.
When I select the main landmark, however, Jaws reads a whole lot of
text, not sure if it is a Jaws bug or webpage problem.
hth, I'd be happy to test with other browsers as of tomorrow (finally
get my new development machine, this one has been on its last leg for
2 months now *grin*).
hth
-B
>
This e-mail message is intended for the named recipient(s) and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. Unauthorized disclosure, copying or
re-transmission is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient or not
authorized by the named recipient(s), or if you have received this
e-mail in error, then please notify the sender immediately and delete
the message and any copies.
>
Ce courriel est destiné exclusivement au destinataire mentionné en titre
et peut contenir de l'information privilégiée, confidentielle ou
soustraite à la communication aux termes des lois applicables. Toute
divulgation non autorisée, toute reproduction ou réacheminement est
interdit. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire de ce courriel, ou n'êtes
pas autorisé par le destinataire visé, ou encore, si vous l'avez reçu
par erreur, veuillez le mentionner immédiatement à l'expéditeur et
supprimer le courriel et les copies.
From: Lucy Greco
Date: Tue, Dec 13 2011 12:36PM
Subject: Re: change in forms mode behavior in JAWS 12
← Previous message | Next message →
Hello:
I.E. 8 does not fully support ARIA so it may be I.E. in this case any way you can test with ff or I.E. 9
Lucy Greco
Assistive Technology Specialist
Disabled Student's Program UC Berkeley
(510) 643-7591
http://attlc.berkeley.edu
http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Tue, Dec 13 2011 2:45PM
Subject: Re: change in forms mode behaviour in JAWS 12
← Previous message | No next message
Hi
In an interview FS said they are still shipping updates for Jaws 12
(complimentary). It might be worth it to bring this issue to their
attention.
I know one of their beta tester folks, if that helps. I can ask him
about the possibility of getting this fixed.
If the issue lies with IE, hoever, it might be more difficult to get
it addressed entirely.
Thanks
On 12/13/11, David Farough < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi Birkir:
> When I was testing this I was using IE8. I was also using Jaws
> 13.0.527.
> When I tabbed between the User name and password fields, Jaws spoke
> "Region landmark" and then spoke the appropriate label for the field
> with focus.
>
> In version 12 Jaws spoke the main landmark followed by all of the text
> between the landmark and the field with focus. I have not tested using
> Firefox.
>
> I have since downloaded jaws 13.0.638. Jaws continues to speak region
> landmark when you tab to these fields.
>
> When I looked at the enhancements listed for this version, I found the
> following:
> ●JAWS is now less verbose when announcing the start or end of ARIA
> regions on Web pages.
>
> David Farough
> Application Accessibility Coordinator/coordonateur de l'accessibilité
> Information Technology Services Directorate /
> Direction des services d'information technologiques
> Public Service Commission / Commission de la fonction publique
> Email / Courriel: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Tel. / Tél: (613) 992-2779
>
>>>> "Birkir R. Gunnarsson" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 05:24 PM
> Monday, December 12, 2011 >>>
> Hi
>
> Do you mean that you go to "sign in with Twitter" and the problem is
> on that page?
> https://twitter.com/oauth/authorize?oauth_token=FVmO2ykQYbIQLn72wms8iuxDLAjyBqN6pGvvIwXAexQ
>
>
> If so, I can confirm that Jaws 13 (latest update 13.0.527( with IE9
> only reads "username required" and "Password required" when I use "e"
> or tab to get to these fields.
> This applies both with user vrebosity = advanced and beginner.
> When I select the main landmark, however, Jaws reads a whole lot of
> text, not sure if it is a Jaws bug or webpage problem.
> hth, I'd be happy to test with other browsers as of tomorrow (finally
> get my new development machine, this one has been on its last leg for
> 2 months now *grin*).
> hth
> -B
>
>
>>
> This e-mail message is intended for the named recipient(s) and may
> contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from
> disclosure under applicable law. Unauthorized disclosure, copying or
> re-transmission is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient or not
> authorized by the named recipient(s), or if you have received this
> e-mail in error, then please notify the sender immediately and delete
> the message and any copies.
> >
> Ce courriel est destiné exclusivement au destinataire mentionné en titre
> et peut contenir de l'information privilégiée, confidentielle ou
> soustraite à la communication aux termes des lois applicables. Toute
> divulgation non autorisée, toute reproduction ou réacheminement est
> interdit. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire de ce courriel, ou n'êtes
> pas autorisé par le destinataire visé, ou encore, si vous l'avez reçu
> par erreur, veuillez le mentionner immédiatement à l'expéditeur et
> supprimer le courriel et les copies.
>
>