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From: Jan Heck
Date: Thu, Apr 03 2008 5:30PM
Subject: Linking to YouTube videos from course Web sites
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Increasingly, our instructors are linking to YouTube videos or Flash
presentations from other sources. I know if we "built them" ourselves, we
would need to caption them. In the case of linking to others' content, of
course, we don't have the rights/permissions to caption and re-post the
captioned versions of such content. Obviously, there's no audio
descriptions for blind or visually-impaired students either. I'm pretty
sure we also don't have the right to post a transcript of the linked video
on our course Web sites (as perhaps the closest approximation to a
reasonable accommodation when we don't have access to the video to caption
it).

So here are my questions:
. My understanding is that all videos we produce must be captioned,
whether the material is required or supplementary for the course.
. How does this get applied when there's a plethora of good content
available "out there," but we don't have control over whether or not it's
captioned?
. How accessible is the YouTube interface in general terms?

I would love some input on this!

Thanks very much,

Jan Heck
Coastline Community College

From: Christian Heilmann
Date: Thu, Apr 03 2008 8:40PM
Subject: Re: Linking to YouTube videos from course Web sites
← Previous message | Next message →

Jan Heck wrote:
> Increasingly, our instructors are linking to YouTube videos or Flash
> presentations from other sources. I know if we "built them" ourselves, we
> would need to caption them. In the case of linking to others' content, of
> course, we don't have the rights/permissions to caption and re-post the
> captioned versions of such content. Obviously, there's no audio
> descriptions for blind or visually-impaired students either. I'm pretty
> sure we also don't have the right to post a transcript of the linked video
> on our course Web sites (as perhaps the closest approximation to a
> reasonable accommodation when we don't have access to the video to caption
> it).
>
> So here are my questions:
> . My understanding is that all videos we produce must be captioned,
> whether the material is required or supplementary for the course.
> . How does this get applied when there's a plethora of good content
> available "out there," but we don't have control over whether or not it's
> captioned?
> . How accessible is the YouTube interface in general terms?
>
> I would love some input on this!
>
It is quite interesting, as Youtube just released an API that allows you
to access the player. I've been playing with it to write a captioning
interface, but haven't come around to building a player yet:

http://www.wait-till-i.com/2008/03/12/video-captioning-made-easy-with-the-youtube-javascript-api/

http://www.slideshare.net/cheilmann/accessihacking-online-video/

You could use this to at least build a time-based description of what is
happening in the video.

From: Emma Duke-Williams
Date: Fri, Apr 04 2008 3:20AM
Subject: Re: Linking to YouTube videos from course Web sites
← Previous message | Next message →

I guess the other thing that needs to be considered from a pragmatic
point of view ...

Do I have students who require captions this academic year?
If no, and I create the captions this year, in case we have students
next year who require them, how likely is the video to still be there?

(Much as we might timetable a class to a classroom up tnarrow stairs
this year, but put it on the ground floor next year, when there's
someone who can't negotiate the stairs)

Emma

On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 3:35 AM, Christian Heilmann < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Jan Heck wrote:
> > Increasingly, our instructors are linking to YouTube videos or Flash
> > presentations from other sources. I know if we "built them" ourselves, we
> > would need to caption them. In the case of linking to others' content, of
> > course, we don't have the rights/permissions to caption and re-post the
> > captioned versions of such content. Obviously, there's no audio
> > descriptions for blind or visually-impaired students either. I'm pretty
> > sure we also don't have the right to post a transcript of the linked video
> > on our course Web sites (as perhaps the closest approximation to a
> > reasonable accommodation when we don't have access to the video to caption
> > it).
> >
> > So here are my questions:
> > . My understanding is that all videos we produce must be captioned,
> > whether the material is required or supplementary for the course.
> > . How does this get applied when there's a plethora of good content
> > available "out there," but we don't have control over whether or not it's
> > captioned?
> > . How accessible is the YouTube interface in general terms?
> >
> > I would love some input on this!
> >
> It is quite interesting, as Youtube just released an API that allows you
> to access the player. I've been playing with it to write a captioning
> interface, but haven't come around to building a player yet:
>
> http://www.wait-till-i.com/2008/03/12/video-captioning-made-easy-with-the-youtube-javascript-api/
>
> http://www.slideshare.net/cheilmann/accessihacking-online-video/
>
> You could use this to at least build a time-based description of what is
> happening in the video.
>
>
>
>

From: Swan, Henny
Date: Fri, Apr 04 2008 7:20AM
Subject: Re: Linking to YouTube videos from course Web sites
← Previous message | Next message →

You could also look into seeing if dotSUB [1] is suitable for what you
need. dotSUB allows for crowdsourcing of captioning and translating
video.

[1] http://dotsub.com

Regards,

Henny

www.rnib.org.uk/webaccesscentre
www.iheni.com

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Christian
Heilmann
Sent: 04 April 2008 03:35
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Linking to YouTube videos from course Web sites

Jan Heck wrote:
> Increasingly, our instructors are linking to YouTube videos or Flash
> presentations from other sources. I know if we "built them"
ourselves, we
> would need to caption them. In the case of linking to others'
content, of
> course, we don't have the rights/permissions to caption and re-post
the
> captioned versions of such content. Obviously, there's no audio
> descriptions for blind or visually-impaired students either. I'm
pretty
> sure we also don't have the right to post a transcript of the linked
video
> on our course Web sites (as perhaps the closest approximation to a
> reasonable accommodation when we don't have access to the video to
caption
> it).
>
> So here are my questions:
> . My understanding is that all videos we produce must be
captioned,
> whether the material is required or supplementary for the course.
> . How does this get applied when there's a plethora of good
content
> available "out there," but we don't have control over whether or not
it's
> captioned?
> . How accessible is the YouTube interface in general terms?
>
> I would love some input on this!
>
It is quite interesting, as Youtube just released an API that allows you

to access the player. I've been playing with it to write a captioning
interface, but haven't come around to building a player yet:

http://www.wait-till-i.com/2008/03/12/video-captioning-made-easy-with-th
e-youtube-javascript-api/

http://www.slideshare.net/cheilmann/accessihacking-online-video/

You could use this to at least build a time-based description of what is

happening in the video.

From: John E. Brandt
Date: Fri, Apr 04 2008 10:20AM
Subject: Re: Linking to YouTube videos from course Web sites
← Previous message | Next message →

My initial response to this question is: If you are using video in teaching
a course in which there is primary content communicated in audio (primarily
spoken content), it needs to be captioned regardless of who owns the
content.

Videos posted on YouTube may be copyrighted, but the Terms of Use notes that
by posting the content there is an intention that it will be "shared." You
can read the legal stuff here: http://www.youtube.com/t/terms - As such,
"mashups" of YouTube content are rather common. The issue of adding
transcripts is not addressed (as far as I could see). The major violation of
the Terms would be to use someone else's content for commercial purposes
(e.g., selling it). So, my interpretation is that a transcript of the
content would be permissible. It certainly wouldn't hurt to contact the
"author" of the content and seek permission to use, transcribe and/or
caption the content for educational purposes.

That said, how you operate in your institution will depend to some extent on
your institution's policy. If you are an institution in the USA and
following strict Section 508 and or WCAG guidelines, I believe all of the
video/audio content used for instruction needs to be captioned or
transcribed. There are likely to be institutional copyright policies and
those related to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA") that will
also need to be followed.

If you are in the USA, the rules are still somewhat vague regarding whether
colleges or community colleges must comply with Section 508. But, my
understanding of the recent situation in the University of California system
(see http://www.webaim.org/discussion/mail_message.php?id=11164 and
http://www.calstate.edu/accessibility/ ) has resulted in a precedent being
set that other colleges must comply with to - paraphrasing here - provide
the same access to materials to all students. As this was an Office of Civil
Rights (OCR) ruling, I think it applies to all similar institutions.

On a practical note...being that you cannot predict who your students will
be, you cannot presume you will not need course content in an alternate
format. If a student with a disability arrives in your class as a transfer
student, two days after the semester starts, and you do not have content
that the student can access, you might be considered in violation of this
obligation to provide the same access to all students. And it might be
difficult to run out and start captioning video at that point.

I am not a lawyer and am not offering legal advice. But I always ask my
audiences when I do presentations on accessibility, do you want to be the
"test case" when the lawyers or OCR comes to town?

~j

John E. Brandt
Augusta, Maine USA
www.jebswebs.com


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jan Heck
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 7:27 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: [WebAIM] Linking to YouTube videos from course Web sites

Increasingly, our instructors are linking to YouTube videos or Flash
presentations from other sources. I know if we "built them" ourselves, we
would need to caption them. In the case of linking to others' content, of
course, we don't have the rights/permissions to caption and re-post the
captioned versions of such content. Obviously, there's no audio
descriptions for blind or visually-impaired students either. I'm pretty
sure we also don't have the right to post a transcript of the linked video
on our course Web sites (as perhaps the closest approximation to a
reasonable accommodation when we don't have access to the video to caption
it).

So here are my questions:
. My understanding is that all videos we produce must be captioned,
whether the material is required or supplementary for the course.
. How does this get applied when there's a plethora of good content
available "out there," but we don't have control over whether or not it's
captioned?
. How accessible is the YouTube interface in general terms?

I would love some input on this!

Thanks very much,

Jan Heck
Coastline Community College

From: Emma Duke-Williams
Date: Fri, Apr 04 2008 11:20AM
Subject: Re: Linking to YouTube videos from course Web sites
← Previous message | Next message →

On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 5:15 PM, John E. Brandt < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

>
> On a practical note...being that you cannot predict who your students will
> be, you cannot presume you will not need course content in an alternate
> format. If a student with a disability arrives in your class as a transfer
> student, two days after the semester starts, and you do not have content
> that the student can access, you might be considered in violation of this
> obligation to provide the same access to all students. And it might be
> difficult to run out and start captioning video at that point.
>

A fair point that you can't predict who's going to be in the class in
the first couple of days, but once the transfer period is over (in our
university, students can transfer units, subject to space etc.) then
you do know the group. If the lecturer finds a useful video the night
before the lecture, surely common sense would dictate that it's useful
to use it, even if you don't have time to transcribe it.
Equally, if it's a second or third year unit, (which has a
pre-requisite from earlier years), then again, you can be fairly sure
about who the students are. Given that transcribing is going to take
longer than the video is, surely from a pragmatic point of view, the
lecturer's time is better spent doing something else ... if they know
that no-one needs it. Yes, ideally we'd have it; but time is limited;
and if having the video makes things clearer for the group of students
you know that you have (e.g. because a lot of them are dyslexic, so
prefer the visual representation of whatever it is you're teaching),
surely that's more useful than not having it at all, because you don't
have the time to create the transcript.

--
Emma Duke-Williams:
School of Computing/ Faculty eLearning Co-ordinator.
Blog: http://userweb.port.ac.uk/~duke-wie/blog/

From: Spruill Kevin
Date: Mon, Apr 07 2008 10:10AM
Subject: Re: Linking to YouTube videos from course Web sites
← Previous message | Next message →

Jan,

The videos must be captioned even if they're not yours - but utilizing
them as content in your course you're required to provide equivalent
access under Section 504 if my memory serves me correctly.

Kevin Spruill
IT Specialist
Information Resources Accessibility Program
OS:CIO:ES:BI:CS:IRAP:IT
Phone: (202) 283-7059
IRAP Web site: http://irap.web.irs.gov

-----Original Message-----
From: Jan Heck [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 7:27 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: [WebAIM] Linking to YouTube videos from course Web sites

Increasingly, our instructors are linking to YouTube videos or Flash
presentations from other sources. I know if we "built them" ourselves,
we would need to caption them. In the case of linking to others'
content, of course, we don't have the rights/permissions to caption and
re-post the captioned versions of such content. Obviously, there's no
audio descriptions for blind or visually-impaired students either. I'm
pretty sure we also don't have the right to post a transcript of the
linked video on our course Web sites (as perhaps the closest
approximation to a reasonable accommodation when we don't have access to
the video to caption it).

So here are my questions:
. My understanding is that all videos we produce must be
captioned,
whether the material is required or supplementary for the course.
. How does this get applied when there's a plethora of good
content
available "out there," but we don't have control over whether or not
it's captioned?
. How accessible is the YouTube interface in general terms?

I would love some input on this!

Thanks very much,

Jan Heck
Coastline Community College

From: Owens, Parker
Date: Mon, Apr 07 2008 12:20PM
Subject: Re: Linking to YouTube videos from course Web sites
← Previous message | Next message →

I believe Kevin is correct. If you are in the US, copyright doesn't really apply to captions, electronic copies, etc. made of copyrighted materials. It comes under the provisions of Fair Use if I am not mistaken.

Parker Owens
Web Accessibility Office
Eastern Kentucky University
254 Case Annex
Richmond, KY 40475

Phone: (859) 622-2743
http://www.accessibility.eku.edu

From: Ron Stewart
Date: Mon, Apr 07 2008 2:00PM
Subject: Re: Linking to YouTube videos from course Web sites
← Previous message | Next message →

Not true at all in fact the copyright issues in regards to captions are more
rigid than the rules in regards to print media unless you are in a state
like California that specifically provides for an alternate solution.

Ron Stewart, AHED
E-Text Solutions Group

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Owens, Parker
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 2:13 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Linking to YouTube videos from course Web sites

I believe Kevin is correct. If you are in the US, copyright doesn't really
apply to captions, electronic copies, etc. made of copyrighted materials. It
comes under the provisions of Fair Use if I am not mistaken.

Parker Owens
Web Accessibility Office
Eastern Kentucky University
254 Case Annex
Richmond, KY 40475

Phone: (859) 622-2743
http://www.accessibility.eku.edu

From: Sean Keegan
Date: Tue, Apr 08 2008 12:50PM
Subject: Re: Linking to YouTube videos from course Web sites
← Previous message | Next message →

> If you are in the US, copyright doesn't really apply to
> captions, electronic copies, etc. made of copyrighted
> materials. It comes under the provisions of Fair Use if
> I am not mistaken.

I do not believe that is accurate. Fair Use does not give you specific
rights - it is a legal defense for using copyrighted materials.
Specifically, there are four factors that are considered (see
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html).

One the reasons you need to obtain permission for captioning videos (e.g.,
VHS, DVD, etc.) is because you often need to make a *copy* of the materials
in order to create a captioned version. We have had situations in our
system where video copyright holders denied permission to caption because
holder was making a captioned version available for purchase (which was
actually better as it was the same price as the uncaptioned version and
would have cost a lot to caption the original presentation).

With respect to Web-based video, I do not know what the legal interpretation
is for content that is streamed from one source with captions overlaid from
a separate source (e.g., http://www.overstream.net). There is no copying of
the video nor is there any change to the original content. Rather, you just
have two content streams being played back at the same time. If anyone has
found any legal precedents, please post.

Take care,
Sean

From: Owens, Parker
Date: Tue, Apr 08 2008 2:40PM
Subject: Re: Linking to YouTube videos from course Web sites
← Previous message | Next message →

Well this is an interesting discussion. In Kentucky we have a Textbook Accessibility Act, and Kentucky Accessible Information Technology Statute that outline the details clearly. In KY, if you are using a video for teaching, you must provide the accommodation.

Here is the part of the Fair Use Doctrine I was referring to: (see numbers 1 and 4)

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107

§ 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use40

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include -

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

Parker Owens
Web Accessibility Office
Eastern Kentucky University
254 Case Annex
Richmond, KY 40475

Phone: (859) 622-2743
http://www.accessibility.eku.edu


-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Stewart [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 3:49 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Linking to YouTube videos from course Web sites

Not true at all in fact the copyright issues in regards to captions are more
rigid than the rules in regards to print media unless you are in a state
like California that specifically provides for an alternate solution.

Ron Stewart, AHED
E-Text Solutions Group

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Owens, Parker
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 2:13 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Linking to YouTube videos from course Web sites

I believe Kevin is correct. If you are in the US, copyright doesn't really
apply to captions, electronic copies, etc. made of copyrighted materials. It
comes under the provisions of Fair Use if I am not mistaken.

Parker Owens
Web Accessibility Office
Eastern Kentucky University
254 Case Annex
Richmond, KY 40475

Phone: (859) 622-2743
http://www.accessibility.eku.edu

From: Emma Duke-Williams
Date: Tue, Apr 08 2008 3:50PM
Subject: Re: Linking to YouTube videos from course Web sites
← Previous message | Next message →

On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 9:38 PM, Owens, Parker < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Well this is an interesting discussion. In Kentucky we have a Textbook Accessibility Act, and Kentucky Accessible Information Technology Statute that outline the details clearly. In KY, if you are using a video for teaching, you must provide the accommodation.

Copyright law in the UK differs from that in the US - and I don't know
UK law very well, so certainly can't comment on US law! However, I did
see a useful blog post today
http://doug-johnson.squarespace.com/blue-skunk-blog/2008/4/8/changing-how-we-teach-copyright-pt-1.html
- in which he commented that he felt that some educators
"hyper-comply" i.e. they're not using tools/ resources for fear of
breaking copyright laws when they aren't.
That *does* happen in the UK - people tend to be so wary of breaking
copyright law that they don't use certain resources.
Doug's post - and part 2 that is now showing up seem to be well worth
reading for those outside the US, no doubt even more useful if you're
in it!
--
Emma Duke-Williams:
School of Computing/ Faculty eLearning Co-ordinator.
Blog: http://userweb.port.ac.uk/~duke-wie/blog/

From: Owens, Parker
Date: Wed, Apr 09 2008 12:20PM
Subject: Re: Linking to YouTube videos from course Web sites
← Previous message | No next message

In our case, we are making transcripts/captions as an educational accommodation, and do not offer it for sale.

Parker Owens
Web Accessibility Office
Eastern Kentucky University
254 Case Annex
Richmond, KY 40475

Phone: (859) 622-2743
http://www.accessibility.eku.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Keegan [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:39 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Linking to YouTube videos from course Web sites

> If you are in the US, copyright doesn't really apply to
> captions, electronic copies, etc. made of copyrighted
> materials. It comes under the provisions of Fair Use if
> I am not mistaken.

I do not believe that is accurate. Fair Use does not give you specific
rights - it is a legal defense for using copyrighted materials.
Specifically, there are four factors that are considered (see
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html).

One the reasons you need to obtain permission for captioning videos (e.g.,
VHS, DVD, etc.) is because you often need to make a *copy* of the materials
in order to create a captioned version. We have had situations in our
system where video copyright holders denied permission to caption because
holder was making a captioned version available for purchase (which was
actually better as it was the same price as the uncaptioned version and
would have cost a lot to caption the original presentation).

With respect to Web-based video, I do not know what the legal interpretation
is for content that is streamed from one source with captions overlaid from
a separate source (e.g., http://www.overstream.net). There is no copying of
the video nor is there any change to the original content. Rather, you just
have two content streams being played back at the same time. If anyone has
found any legal precedents, please post.

Take care,
Sean