E-mail List Archives
Thread: Table of Conents structure in PDF
Number of posts in this thread: 5 (In chronological order)
From: Carr, Robert G.
Date: Fri, May 11 2012 1:10PM
Subject: Table of Conents structure in PDF
No previous message | Next message →
Hello again-
We have been working to get our testing procedures for PDF's wrapped up, and one of the things that seems to be the most tricky to pin down is a Table of Contents. How should a Table of Contents be tagged in Acrobat's tag tree? We have not noticed much of a difference in some of the different markup approaches when we test. Is there a structurally and functionally "right" way to mark up a Table of Contents in Acrobat? Is the way that Word typically converts them to PDF acceptable, or is there more cleanup to do after that conversion has occurred?
Thanks a lot,
Rob Carr
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
From: Ryan E. Benson
Date: Fri, May 11 2012 4:44PM
Subject: Re: Table of Conents structure in PDF
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Rob,
This comes down to how precise you want to be. But the <TOC> tag
should be used to be a container. The <TOCI> tag should hold each
element. Then it is up to you. Some people/programs wrap the elements
in a <p> or <span>, and some like to wrap links in <link> tags. One
iteration be:
<TOC>
-<TOCI>
--<P>*
---<link>
----[your text]
----Link - OBJ
-<TOCI>
--.... [repeat]
Some say the <p> (or span) creates an extra level that isn't needed,
and kind of the same with <link>. I personally think <link> should be
used to keep the link elements packaged. The Link - OBJ is need to
make the link accessible via keyboard. You cannot create this one by
hand, there is a few ways how to. Read more about it at:
http://www.pws-ltd.com/sections/articles/2010/pdf_links.html
--
Ryan E. Benson
On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Carr, Robert G. < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hello again-
>
> We have been working to get our testing procedures for PDF's wrapped up, and one of the things that seems to be the most tricky to pin down is a Table of Contents. How should a Table of Contents be tagged in Acrobat's tag tree? We have not noticed much of a difference in some of the different markup approaches when we test. Is there a structurally and functionally "right" way to mark up a Table of Contents in Acrobat? Is the way that Word typically converts them to PDF acceptable, or is there more cleanup to do after that conversion has occurred?
>
> Thanks a lot,
>
> Rob Carr
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
> > >
From: Ted
Date: Sun, May 13 2012 4:46AM
Subject: Re: Table of Conents structure in PDF
← Previous message | Next message →
Different versions of Word generate different TOC tag structures but
generally speaking they work well once converted to PDF.
However, a couple of small things to be aware of:
(1) footnotes can interfere with TOC links that go to destinations other
than the top of a page (the fix for this lies in the footnote, not the TOC
by the way), and
2) you should avoid TOC entries that span more than one line, or be prepared
to edit the tags in Acrobat to fix the resulting problems
Ted Page
Director, PWS Ltd
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan E. Benson [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: 11 May 2012 23:45
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Table of Conents structure in PDF
Hi Rob,
This comes down to how precise you want to be. But the <TOC> tag should be
used to be a container. The <TOCI> tag should hold each element. Then it is
up to you. Some people/programs wrap the elements in a <p> or <span>, and
some like to wrap links in <link> tags. One iteration be:
<TOC>
-<TOCI>
--<P>*
---<link>
----[your text]
----Link - OBJ
-<TOCI>
--.... [repeat]
Some say the <p> (or span) creates an extra level that isn't needed, and
kind of the same with <link>. I personally think <link> should be used to
keep the link elements packaged. The Link - OBJ is need to make the link
accessible via keyboard. You cannot create this one by hand, there is a few
ways how to. Read more about it at:
http://www.pws-ltd.com/sections/articles/2010/pdf_links.html
--
Ryan E. Benson
On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Carr, Robert G. < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hello again-
>
> We have been working to get our testing procedures for PDF's wrapped
> up, and one of the things that seems to be the most tricky to pin down
> is a Table of Contents. How should a Table of Contents be tagged in
> Acrobat's tag tree? We have not noticed much of a difference in some
> of the different markup approaches when we test. Is there a
> structurally and functionally "right" way to mark up a Table of
> Contents in Acrobat? Is the way that Word typically converts them to
> PDF acceptable, or is there more cleanup to do after that conversion
> has occurred?
>
> Thanks a lot,
>
> Rob Carr
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
From: Karen Mardahl
Date: Sun, May 13 2012 10:47AM
Subject: Re: Table of Conents structure in PDF
← Previous message | Next message →
I want to add on to Ted Page's comment. Often, TOC problems are due to poor
writing and poor use of styles. I've seen entire paragraphs end up in the
TOC because someone didn't clean up their styles. I've also seen nightmares
in the PDF because the TOC was handmade. The authoring tools I know
(InDesign, Word, FrameMaker) have automated TOC generators. When these -
and styles - are used correctly, you minimize the problems in the final PDF.
Multi-line entries in a TOC are a mess in many ways. This means the author
has to rewrite the TOC and that is a benefit in many ways. We skim a TOC to
look for info on how to do this and that. That info should be presented in
a short phrase that can fit into one line with plenty of room to spare.
I hope this can help clear up your problems, too.
regards, Karen Mardahl
http://mardahl.dk
On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 9:10 PM, Carr, Robert G. < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hello again-
>
> We have been working to get our testing procedures for PDF's wrapped up,
> and one of the things that seems to be the most tricky to pin down is a
> Table of Contents. How should a Table of Contents be tagged in Acrobat's
> tag tree? We have not noticed much of a difference in some of the
> different markup approaches when we test. Is there a structurally and
> functionally "right" way to mark up a Table of Contents in Acrobat? Is the
> way that Word typically converts them to PDF acceptable, or is there more
> cleanup to do after that conversion has occurred?
>
> Thanks a lot,
>
> Rob Carr
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
> > > >
From: Bevi Chagnon
Date: Sun, May 13 2012 11:21AM
Subject: Re: Table of Conents structure in PDF
← Previous message | No next message
Everything Karen said is on target.
In fact, when TOCs and styles are correctly used in Word, FrameMaker, and
InDesign, you usually get excellent accessibility results in the PDF.
But this requires training in how to correctly setup TOCs in these
applications and most document designers don't know how to use these tools
at all.
- Bevi
--
Bevi Chagnon | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
PubCom - Trainers, consultants, designers, and developers
Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and Federal Section 508
--
* It's our 30th Year! *
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Karen Mardahl
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 12:47 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Table of Conents structure in PDF
I want to add on to Ted Page's comment. Often, TOC problems are due to poor
writing and poor use of styles. I've seen entire paragraphs end up in the
TOC because someone didn't clean up their styles. I've also seen nightmares
in the PDF because the TOC was handmade. The authoring tools I know
(InDesign, Word, FrameMaker) have automated TOC generators. When these - and
styles - are used correctly, you minimize the problems in the final PDF.
Multi-line entries in a TOC are a mess in many ways. This means the author
has to rewrite the TOC and that is a benefit in many ways. We skim a TOC to
look for info on how to do this and that. That info should be presented in a
short phrase that can fit into one line with plenty of room to spare.
I hope this can help clear up your problems, too.
regards, Karen Mardahl
http://mardahl.dk
On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 9:10 PM, Carr, Robert G. < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hello again-
>
> We have been working to get our testing procedures for PDF's wrapped
> up, and one of the things that seems to be the most tricky to pin down
> is a Table of Contents. How should a Table of Contents be tagged in
> Acrobat's tag tree? We have not noticed much of a difference in some
> of the different markup approaches when we test. Is there a
> structurally and functionally "right" way to mark up a Table of
> Contents in Acrobat? Is the way that Word typically converts them to
> PDF acceptable, or is there more cleanup to do after that conversion has
occurred?
>
> Thanks a lot,
>
> Rob Carr
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =