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From: Jennison Asuncion
Date: Sun, Apr 07 2013 11:29AM
Subject: insight re Android accessibility from a blind user
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Hi,

Marco Zehe published a blog post regarding an experiment he did switching from the iPhone to the Nexus 4 that I thought folks here might find of interest
http://www.marcozehe.de/2013/04/05/switching-to-android-full-time-an-experiment/

Jennison
Jennison Mark Asuncion
Co-Director, Adaptech Research Network http://www.adaptech.org
LinkedIn at http://www.linkedin.com/in/jennison
Follow me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/jennison
Accessibility Camp Toronto http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeP5Kl4GDgA

From: Lucy Greco
Date: Sun, Apr 07 2013 5:56PM
Subject: Re: insight re Android accessibility from a blind user
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This is a great read and I agree with much of what Marko says but I am
to stubborn to go to an I phone. But I think much of the problem with
both platforms os is a learning curb. It's sad that a blind person just
can't pick up a device like their peers and start using it. both the I
phone and android have a sharp learning curb for blind users and I don't
see anything changing in the future. In less we as a community come up
with standard interface rules just like w3c has standards for web coding
but I think this time we the users need to be more vocal in the making of
these standards. or again blind people will have to use rules that were
written by well-meaning sited people that think they know what it is like
to use an interface as a blind person. Lucy

Lucia Greco
Web Access Analyst
IST-Campus Technology Services
University of California, Berkeley
(510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
Follow me on twitter @accessaces

From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Sun, Apr 07 2013 6:37PM
Subject: Re: insight re Android accessibility from a blind user
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Lucia,
2 comments.

<< It's sad that a blind person just can't pick up a device like their peers
and start using it. >>
You're not alone! It's sad when a sighted person (me) can't pick up the
blanking device and understand how to turn it on and use it. I bought one of
the original iPhones years ago and it was not intuitive to use nor
well-documented on how to use the darn thing. Had to hire a teenager in the
neighborhood to show me the ropes.

But on a serious note, the blind community is in a bind with all of the
touch-screen devices, from smartphones to tablets to computer touch-screens.
The forthcoming Section 508 Refresh (United States guidelines) rolls our
telecommunications laws into the accessibility guidelines and will somewhat
address the accessibility of telecom devices and their kin, but I don't see
anything comparable like WCAG from the W3C, a detailed, formal set of rules
or guidelines.

Hopefully someone on this list who works with accessibility of telecom
devices can chime in.

-Bevi Chagnon
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
www.PubCom.com - Trainers, Consultants, Designers, Developers.
Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
Accessibility.

From: Lucy Greco
Date: Sun, Apr 07 2013 6:43PM
Subject: Re: insight re Android accessibility from a blind user
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Thanks for the assurance that it's not just me smile I hate some of these
new devices.

Lucia Greco
Web Access Analyst
IST-Campus Technology Services
University of California, Berkeley
(510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
Follow me on twitter @accessaces

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Sun, Apr 07 2013 7:11PM
Subject: Re: insight re Android accessibility from a blind user
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I thought I was of the same opinion as you guys, and I am by no means
an Apple fan (I don't like to commit to one technology or one way of
doing things)in any way, but once I did pick up the iPhone and
listened to one podcast on how to use it, it truly became simple for
me (this was the iPhone 4, tested nothing before that).
The thing with touchscreen devices and devices like the iPhone, is
that Apple pretty much had to invent a touchscreen accessible
interface from scratch, none of us have ever used a touchscreen device
ever, and we deep down are afraid that it is impossible (well,
speaking for myself anyway).
Now, once you pick up an iPhone, turn on Voiceover by triple clicking
the round home button on the bottom, you really just have to remember
flicking a finger to the right to go to next item on the page, left to
go to previous item, double tap to activate an item, press the round
home button to go back (a bit like the escapte key), and flick up or
down with a finger to invoke special actions (like delete in the mail
app).
There are a few extra gestures that are more advanced, and they take
time, but this is pretty much all you have to remember initially.
I do agree that Apple have not done a great job of teaching the
touchscreen with Voiceover users how to operate the phone, I found
podcasts from Vision Australia that got me into it, but I do give
Apple credit for having done pretty well with inventing a pretty
usable touchscreen interface more or less out of the blue.
I still can't stand touch typing, use external Bluetooth keyboard,
braille display or the braille touch app for input most of the time,
and I am not in any way saying this is perfect, but if you dig up an
iPhone, the podcast, and just go for an hour of two of experimenting,
you might be surprised (you might not, I am not saying what worked for
me will or will not work for someone else, but I do recognize the
feeling that this possibly cannot work, but then it was quickly
dismissed when I started playing).
So definitely don't be shy to give it a shot, and see if you like it.
No guarantee that you will or you should, but you might.
Cheers
-B
P.s. just to reiterate it, I don't want to be associated with
everything is so wonderful from Apple crowd. This is not perfect and I
can see how people have issues with their overly tight control over
their interface (for one thing I have, along with their dealers in
Iceland, been trying to get Apple to install an Icelandic TTS voice on
their iOS line of devices for years .. they do not allow third party
TTS apps except inside applications, but so far with absolutely no
feedback, success or glimpse of hope, and it irritates me to no end
that a company assumes this tight a control over its interface, making
it unusable to a whole nation).

On 4/7/13, Lucy Greco < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Thanks for the assurance that it's not just me smile I hate some of these
> new devices.
>
> Lucia Greco
> Web Access Analyst
> IST-Campus Technology Services
> University of California, Berkeley
> (510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
> http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
> Follow me on twitter @accessaces
>
>
>

From: Alastair Campbell
Date: Mon, Apr 08 2013 3:53AM
Subject: Re: insight re Android accessibility from a blind user
← Previous message | Next message →

Birkir R. Gunnarsson wrote:

> I can see how people have issues with their overly tight control over
> their interface


I agree for myself (I use both Android and iOS), however, it is worth
considering that Apple have made it easier to have
a holistically accessible platform by keeping it locked down.

The proscriptive approach means that developers are more likely to create
accessible apps (with less effort required) and OS level things like
keyboards can be more reliable.

Personally I love changing the keyboard on my Android phone to Swiftkey,
but that kind of flexibility means a lot more testing is required to keep
things accessible. IMHO a lot of the issues Marco raised can be traced back
to that.

Kind regards,

-Alastair

From: Jim Allan
Date: Mon, Apr 08 2013 10:28AM
Subject: Re: insight re Android accessibility from a blind user
← Previous message | Next message →

Birkir,
You don't always have access to a keyboard. I have a friend, who is totally
blind, who uses Fleksy (http://fleksy.com/) and is up to 20 words per
minutes on the touch screen keyboard. She says it is a bit pricy $15, but
well worth the speed. I watched, slack jawed in amazement, as she typed a
long sentence and didn't hit any letter correctly. She said the sentence
would read "......" and that is exactly what it said.

Jim


On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> I thought I was of the same opinion as you guys, and I am by no means
> an Apple fan (I don't like to commit to one technology or one way of
> doing things)in any way, but once I did pick up the iPhone and
> listened to one podcast on how to use it, it truly became simple for
> me (this was the iPhone 4, tested nothing before that).
> The thing with touchscreen devices and devices like the iPhone, is
> that Apple pretty much had to invent a touchscreen accessible
> interface from scratch, none of us have ever used a touchscreen device
> ever, and we deep down are afraid that it is impossible (well,
> speaking for myself anyway).
> Now, once you pick up an iPhone, turn on Voiceover by triple clicking
> the round home button on the bottom, you really just have to remember
> flicking a finger to the right to go to next item on the page, left to
> go to previous item, double tap to activate an item, press the round
> home button to go back (a bit like the escapte key), and flick up or
> down with a finger to invoke special actions (like delete in the mail
> app).
> There are a few extra gestures that are more advanced, and they take
> time, but this is pretty much all you have to remember initially.
> I do agree that Apple have not done a great job of teaching the
> touchscreen with Voiceover users how to operate the phone, I found
> podcasts from Vision Australia that got me into it, but I do give
> Apple credit for having done pretty well with inventing a pretty
> usable touchscreen interface more or less out of the blue.
> I still can't stand touch typing, use external Bluetooth keyboard,
> braille display or the braille touch app for input most of the time,
> and I am not in any way saying this is perfect, but if you dig up an
> iPhone, the podcast, and just go for an hour of two of experimenting,
> you might be surprised (you might not, I am not saying what worked for
> me will or will not work for someone else, but I do recognize the
> feeling that this possibly cannot work, but then it was quickly
> dismissed when I started playing).
> So definitely don't be shy to give it a shot, and see if you like it.
> No guarantee that you will or you should, but you might.
> Cheers
> -B
> P.s. just to reiterate it, I don't want to be associated with
> everything is so wonderful from Apple crowd. This is not perfect and I
> can see how people have issues with their overly tight control over
> their interface (for one thing I have, along with their dealers in
> Iceland, been trying to get Apple to install an Icelandic TTS voice on
> their iOS line of devices for years .. they do not allow third party
> TTS apps except inside applications, but so far with absolutely no
> feedback, success or glimpse of hope, and it irritates me to no end
> that a company assumes this tight a control over its interface, making
> it unusable to a whole nation).
>
> On 4/7/13, Lucy Greco < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > Thanks for the assurance that it's not just me smile I hate some of
> these
> > new devices.
> >
> > Lucia Greco
> > Web Access Analyst
> > IST-Campus Technology Services
> > University of California, Berkeley
> > (510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
> > http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
> > Follow me on twitter @accessaces
> >
> >
> >

From: Jonathan C. Cohn
Date: Mon, Apr 08 2013 10:33AM
Subject: Re: insight re Android accessibility from a blind user
← Previous message | Next message →

Records unless Fleksy has changed price again, it is now free. I used it to type this message.
nt from my iPhone

On Apr 8, 2013, at 12:28 PM, Jim Allan < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Birkir,
> You don't always have access to a keyboard. I have a friend, who is totally
> blind, who uses Fleksy (http://fleksy.com/) and is up to 20 words per
> minutes on the touch screen keyboard. She says it is a bit pricy $15, but
> well worth the speed. I watched, slack jawed in amazement, as she typed a
> long sentence and didn't hit any letter correctly. She said the sentence
> would read "......" and that is exactly what it said.
>
> Jim
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> I thought I was of the same opinion as you guys, and I am by no means
>> an Apple fan (I don't like to commit to one technology or one way of
>> doing things)in any way, but once I did pick up the iPhone and
>> listened to one podcast on how to use it, it truly became simple for
>> me (this was the iPhone 4, tested nothing before that).
>> The thing with touchscreen devices and devices like the iPhone, is
>> that Apple pretty much had to invent a touchscreen accessible
>> interface from scratch, none of us have ever used a touchscreen device
>> ever, and we deep down are afraid that it is impossible (well,
>> speaking for myself anyway).
>> Now, once you pick up an iPhone, turn on Voiceover by triple clicking
>> the round home button on the bottom, you really just have to remember
>> flicking a finger to the right to go to next item on the page, left to
>> go to previous item, double tap to activate an item, press the round
>> home button to go back (a bit like the escapte key), and flick up or
>> down with a finger to invoke special actions (like delete in the mail
>> app).
>> There are a few extra gestures that are more advanced, and they take
>> time, but this is pretty much all you have to remember initially.
>> I do agree that Apple have not done a great job of teaching the
>> touchscreen with Voiceover users how to operate the phone, I found
>> podcasts from Vision Australia that got me into it, but I do give
>> Apple credit for having done pretty well with inventing a pretty
>> usable touchscreen interface more or less out of the blue.
>> I still can't stand touch typing, use external Bluetooth keyboard,
>> braille display or the braille touch app for input most of the time,
>> and I am not in any way saying this is perfect, but if you dig up an
>> iPhone, the podcast, and just go for an hour of two of experimenting,
>> you might be surprised (you might not, I am not saying what worked for
>> me will or will not work for someone else, but I do recognize the
>> feeling that this possibly cannot work, but then it was quickly
>> dismissed when I started playing).
>> So definitely don't be shy to give it a shot, and see if you like it.
>> No guarantee that you will or you should, but you might.
>> Cheers
>> -B
>> P.s. just to reiterate it, I don't want to be associated with
>> everything is so wonderful from Apple crowd. This is not perfect and I
>> can see how people have issues with their overly tight control over
>> their interface (for one thing I have, along with their dealers in
>> Iceland, been trying to get Apple to install an Icelandic TTS voice on
>> their iOS line of devices for years .. they do not allow third party
>> TTS apps except inside applications, but so far with absolutely no
>> feedback, success or glimpse of hope, and it irritates me to no end
>> that a company assumes this tight a control over its interface, making
>> it unusable to a whole nation).
>>
>> On 4/7/13, Lucy Greco < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>> Thanks for the assurance that it's not just me smile I hate some of
>> these
>>> new devices.
>>>
>>> Lucia Greco
>>> Web Access Analyst
>>> IST-Campus Technology Services
>>> University of California, Berkeley
>>> (510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
>>> http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
>>> Follow me on twitter @accessaces
>>>
>>>
>>>

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Mon, Apr 08 2013 11:50AM
Subject: Re: insight re Android accessibility from a blind user
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Jim

Yes, I have downloaded Fleksy, just need to sit down with my phone,
Fleksy, a glass of wine, and have fun .. heck, might do it tonight now
that you brought it back to my attention.
The Braille Touch app is also interesting, and holds a lot of promise
I think. Feels a bit weird, and I wish it could be used to replace the
regular keyboard on iOS, would be interesting.
It could replace the regular keyboard on Android, however Android is
still lacking the necessary multi-touch support to make it work (at
least that is what the Braille Touch developer told me in an email
exchange right before CSUN, I was hoping to see the team there, but he
said they sadly did not get a stipend to make the trip from Georgia).
Thanks for reminding me on the Fleksy thing.
-B

On 4/8/13, Jonathan C. Cohn < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Records unless Fleksy has changed price again, it is now free. I used it to
> type this message.
> nt from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 8, 2013, at 12:28 PM, Jim Allan < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> Birkir,
>> You don't always have access to a keyboard. I have a friend, who is
>> totally
>> blind, who uses Fleksy (http://fleksy.com/) and is up to 20 words per
>> minutes on the touch screen keyboard. She says it is a bit pricy $15, but
>> well worth the speed. I watched, slack jawed in amazement, as she typed a
>> long sentence and didn't hit any letter correctly. She said the sentence
>> would read "......" and that is exactly what it said.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>
>>> I thought I was of the same opinion as you guys, and I am by no means
>>> an Apple fan (I don't like to commit to one technology or one way of
>>> doing things)in any way, but once I did pick up the iPhone and
>>> listened to one podcast on how to use it, it truly became simple for
>>> me (this was the iPhone 4, tested nothing before that).
>>> The thing with touchscreen devices and devices like the iPhone, is
>>> that Apple pretty much had to invent a touchscreen accessible
>>> interface from scratch, none of us have ever used a touchscreen device
>>> ever, and we deep down are afraid that it is impossible (well,
>>> speaking for myself anyway).
>>> Now, once you pick up an iPhone, turn on Voiceover by triple clicking
>>> the round home button on the bottom, you really just have to remember
>>> flicking a finger to the right to go to next item on the page, left to
>>> go to previous item, double tap to activate an item, press the round
>>> home button to go back (a bit like the escapte key), and flick up or
>>> down with a finger to invoke special actions (like delete in the mail
>>> app).
>>> There are a few extra gestures that are more advanced, and they take
>>> time, but this is pretty much all you have to remember initially.
>>> I do agree that Apple have not done a great job of teaching the
>>> touchscreen with Voiceover users how to operate the phone, I found
>>> podcasts from Vision Australia that got me into it, but I do give
>>> Apple credit for having done pretty well with inventing a pretty
>>> usable touchscreen interface more or less out of the blue.
>>> I still can't stand touch typing, use external Bluetooth keyboard,
>>> braille display or the braille touch app for input most of the time,
>>> and I am not in any way saying this is perfect, but if you dig up an
>>> iPhone, the podcast, and just go for an hour of two of experimenting,
>>> you might be surprised (you might not, I am not saying what worked for
>>> me will or will not work for someone else, but I do recognize the
>>> feeling that this possibly cannot work, but then it was quickly
>>> dismissed when I started playing).
>>> So definitely don't be shy to give it a shot, and see if you like it.
>>> No guarantee that you will or you should, but you might.
>>> Cheers
>>> -B
>>> P.s. just to reiterate it, I don't want to be associated with
>>> everything is so wonderful from Apple crowd. This is not perfect and I
>>> can see how people have issues with their overly tight control over
>>> their interface (for one thing I have, along with their dealers in
>>> Iceland, been trying to get Apple to install an Icelandic TTS voice on
>>> their iOS line of devices for years .. they do not allow third party
>>> TTS apps except inside applications, but so far with absolutely no
>>> feedback, success or glimpse of hope, and it irritates me to no end
>>> that a company assumes this tight a control over its interface, making
>>> it unusable to a whole nation).
>>>
>>> On 4/7/13, Lucy Greco < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>> Thanks for the assurance that it's not just me smile I hate some of
>>> these
>>>> new devices.
>>>>
>>>> Lucia Greco
>>>> Web Access Analyst
>>>> IST-Campus Technology Services
>>>> University of California, Berkeley
>>>> (510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
>>>> http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
>>>> Follow me on twitter @accessaces
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>

From: Subhash Chhetri
Date: Mon, Apr 08 2013 10:04PM
Subject: Re: insight re Android accessibility from a blind user
← Previous message | No next message

Hi Guys,
I have also recently started using Samsung gt-b5330 that has qwerty keypad
and have android 4.0.
Initially, It was a bit problematic for me to understand its functionality,
but now I find myself much comfortable.
Only concern is that As I experienced talkback has very minimum support
specially for reading a document.

But onething, using touch UI definitely lowers one's (visually impaired)
performance with device, because one cannot use it as free as a sighted
person do. ?Sometimes, it also happens U want to click on send button
unintentionally cancel button is clicked.
Overall it requires more concentration.

Best regards,
Subhash Chhetri