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Thread: reCAPTCHA replacement

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Number of posts in this thread: 12 (In chronological order)

From: Alastair Campbell
Date: Thu, Dec 04 2014 7:10AM
Subject: reCAPTCHA replacement
No previous message | Next message

Interesting post from Google on their update/replacement for re-CAPTCHA:
http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/are-you-robot-introducing-no-captcha.html

The short story is that they are replacing the current CAPTCHA method
(distorted image-text or distorted audio) with a simple tickbox for "I am
not a robot". They then use some heuristics based on IP address, browser
config, mouse pointer behaviour etc. to guess if you are a robot.

That bit about using mouse movements to analyse your human-ness obviously
rang alarm bells, and I couldn't find an example easily, so I created one
here:
https://alastairc.ac/testing/recaptcha-test.html

At first glance, it is keyboard accessible, has appropriate ARIA attributes
(which are needed as they use a span for a checkbox), and it didn't fail
when I only used the keyboard.

Overall, it looks like an important improvement from an accessibility point
of view. If the heuristics fail you then you get the traditional CAPTCHA
approach, however, that should be a lot less frequent.

It would be interesting to see how the image-matching version works from an
accessibility point of view, I didn't find a way to trigger that within my
lunch break.

-Alastair

PS. Alt text for the images in the blog post:
1. A traditional CAPTCHA where you have to type in the distorted words
shown, or choose the audio option.
2. An animated image showing a checkbox with label "I'm not a robot", and
the reCAPTCHA logo.
3. The checkbox shows the traditional method underneath.
4 & 5. Two examples of the checkbox showing an image of a cat, and then
nine images underneath that to match against.

From: LÚonie Watson
Date: Thu, Dec 04 2014 7:20AM
Subject: Re: reCAPTCHA replacement
Previous message | Next message

Alastair Campbell wrote:
"At first glance, it is keyboard accessible, has appropriate ARIA attributes
(which are needed as they use a span for a checkbox), and it didn't fail
when I only used the keyboard."

Quick back/packet test with NVDA and Jaws in Firefox suggests it works well.
They've used a tri-state checkbox, which shifts to partially checked whilst
the verification is taking place, then completely checked when verified.

Interestingly by the time I tried it in IE, I must have triggered one of the
heuristics because it prompted me for the old-style CAPTCHA. Presumably the
result of hitting it a few times in quick succession.

L´┐Żonie.


--
@LeonieWatson Carpe diem


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Alastair Campbell
Sent: 04 December 2014 14:11
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: [WebAIM] reCAPTCHA replacement

Interesting post from Google on their update/replacement for re-CAPTCHA:
http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/are-you-robot-introduci
ng-no-captcha.html

The short story is that they are replacing the current CAPTCHA method
(distorted image-text or distorted audio) with a simple tickbox for "I am
not a robot". They then use some heuristics based on IP address, browser
config, mouse pointer behaviour etc. to guess if you are a robot.

That bit about using mouse movements to analyse your human-ness obviously
rang alarm bells, and I couldn't find an example easily, so I created one
here:
https://alastairc.ac/testing/recaptcha-test.html

At first glance, it is keyboard accessible, has appropriate ARIA attributes
(which are needed as they use a span for a checkbox), and it didn't fail
when I only used the keyboard.

Overall, it looks like an important improvement from an accessibility point
of view. If the heuristics fail you then you get the traditional CAPTCHA
approach, however, that should be a lot less frequent.

It would be interesting to see how the image-matching version works from an
accessibility point of view, I didn't find a way to trigger that within my
lunch break.

-Alastair

PS. Alt text for the images in the blog post:
1. A traditional CAPTCHA where you have to type in the distorted words
shown, or choose the audio option.
2. An animated image showing a checkbox with label "I'm not a robot", and
the reCAPTCHA logo.
3. The checkbox shows the traditional method underneath.
4 & 5. Two examples of the checkbox showing an image of a cat, and then nine
images underneath that to match against.
messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Thu, Dec 04 2014 7:43AM
Subject: Re: reCAPTCHA replacement
Previous message | Next message

My first check was not as positive unfortunately (granted, this is
only a single check).
I used IE and immediately got redirected to an additional challenge
(it looks like the CAPTCHA equates using IE with being a robot, I am
sure one could have entertaining speculations on that(.
The problem is that I was completely unable to find an alternative
audio captcha when prompted for the traditional one.
I very much like the fact that user analysis is replacing guessing
games, but for the fallback, Google needs to make sure that users have
at least the same options as they had before (i.e. audio captcha).
For the image matching, I wonder if the audio alternative could be a
soundfile, such as an animal sound, that user can then match to images
with descriptive alt texts.
If you select "audio captcha" and hear a "meow", you probably go look
for an image of a cat.
Obviously the image that is displayed and the image you have to match
to it cannot have identical alt texts, it would make for an easy
crack.
Cheers
-Birkir


On 12/4/14, L´┐Żonie Watson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Alastair Campbell wrote:
> "At first glance, it is keyboard accessible, has appropriate ARIA
> attributes
> (which are needed as they use a span for a checkbox), and it didn't fail
> when I only used the keyboard."
>
> Quick back/packet test with NVDA and Jaws in Firefox suggests it works
> well.
> They've used a tri-state checkbox, which shifts to partially checked whilst
> the verification is taking place, then completely checked when verified.
>
> Interestingly by the time I tried it in IE, I must have triggered one of
> the
> heuristics because it prompted me for the old-style CAPTCHA. Presumably the
> result of hitting it a few times in quick succession.
>
> L´┐Żonie.
>
>
> --
> @LeonieWatson Carpe diem
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Alastair
> Campbell
> Sent: 04 December 2014 14:11
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: [WebAIM] reCAPTCHA replacement
>
> Interesting post from Google on their update/replacement for re-CAPTCHA:
> http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/are-you-robot-introduci
> ng-no-captcha.html
>
> The short story is that they are replacing the current CAPTCHA method
> (distorted image-text or distorted audio) with a simple tickbox for "I am
> not a robot". They then use some heuristics based on IP address, browser
> config, mouse pointer behaviour etc. to guess if you are a robot.
>
> That bit about using mouse movements to analyse your human-ness obviously
> rang alarm bells, and I couldn't find an example easily, so I created one
> here:
> https://alastairc.ac/testing/recaptcha-test.html
>
> At first glance, it is keyboard accessible, has appropriate ARIA attributes
> (which are needed as they use a span for a checkbox), and it didn't fail
> when I only used the keyboard.
>
> Overall, it looks like an important improvement from an accessibility point
> of view. If the heuristics fail you then you get the traditional CAPTCHA
> approach, however, that should be a lot less frequent.
>
> It would be interesting to see how the image-matching version works from an
> accessibility point of view, I didn't find a way to trigger that within my
> lunch break.
>
> -Alastair
>
> PS. Alt text for the images in the blog post:
> 1. A traditional CAPTCHA where you have to type in the distorted words
> shown, or choose the audio option.
> 2. An animated image showing a checkbox with label "I'm not a robot", and
> the reCAPTCHA logo.
> 3. The checkbox shows the traditional method underneath.
> 4 & 5. Two examples of the checkbox showing an image of a cat, and then
> nine
> images underneath that to match against.
> > > messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
> > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Thu, Dec 04 2014 8:14AM
Subject: Re: reCAPTCHA replacement
Previous message | Next message

On 04/12/2014 14:20, L├ęonie Watson wrote:
> Alastair Campbell wrote:
> "At first glance, it is keyboard accessible, has appropriate ARIA attributes
> (which are needed as they use a span for a checkbox), and it didn't fail
> when I only used the keyboard."
>
> Quick back/packet test with NVDA and Jaws in Firefox suggests it works well.
> They've used a tri-state checkbox, which shifts to partially checked whilst
> the verification is taking place, then completely checked when verified.
>
> Interestingly by the time I tried it in IE, I must have triggered one of the
> heuristics because it prompted me for the old-style CAPTCHA. Presumably the
> result of hitting it a few times in quick succession.

Strangely, I've had quite a few issues when I tried it...now maybe it's
due to my inexperience with some of the finer points of NVDA and JAWS,
but - testing on a similar page http://patrickhlauke.github.io/recaptcha
with IE and Firefox - I got all sorts of weirdness - not being able to
actually navigate into the iframe, always being flagged for traditional
CAPTCHA reverification in IE/JAWS, having the "refresh", "audio captcha"
etc buttons not actually being activatable in, I seem to remember,
IE/NVDA. In short, seems a bit hit and miss at the moment...

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke

www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: Alastair Campbell
Date: Thu, Dec 04 2014 8:17AM
Subject: Re: reCAPTCHA replacement
Previous message | Next message

Birkir wrote:

> I used IE and immediately got redirected to an additional challenge
> (it looks like the CAPTCHA equates using IE with being a robot


I could well be that my test case is encouraging the heuristics to fail, on
my first tries I couldn't trigger a fail.

Trying with IE, ah-ha, there it is!

The alternative is under the form after "refresh", it has a title of "Get
audio challenge", on a div with role button and tabindex of 0. It should
work I think, although I'm not keen on relying on title attributes.

For the image matching, I wonder if the audio alternative could be a
> soundfile, such as an animal sound, that user can then match to images
> with descriptive alt texts.
>

I'm not sure what they are doing for that, I guess I'll have to buy a
Windows phone so I can use IE on mobile and trigger a fail?!

-Alastair

From: Mallory van Achterberg
Date: Thu, Dec 04 2014 9:55AM
Subject: Re: reCAPTCHA replacement
Previous message | Next message

A blind friend with a Mac tested one successfully with VO in Safari
(desktop).

_mallory

From: lists@srinivasu.org
Date: Thu, Dec 04 2014 10:24PM
Subject: Re: reCAPTCHA replacement
Previous message | Next message

Interesting development from Google. I just tested this and works fine. The problem I have noticed is verification expires if yiur page is idle for sometime; this may cause difficulty for users with learning g disability. But a welcome move!!

Regards,
Srinivasu Chakravarthula | @csrinivasu
Sent from my iPhone 5C

> On 04-Dec-2014, at 20:47, Alastair Campbell < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Birkir wrote:
>
>> I used IE and immediately got redirected to an additional challenge
>> (it looks like the CAPTCHA equates using IE with being a robot
>
>
> I could well be that my test case is encouraging the heuristics to fail, on
> my first tries I couldn't trigger a fail.
>
> Trying with IE, ah-ha, there it is!
>
> The alternative is under the form after "refresh", it has a title of "Get
> audio challenge", on a div with role button and tabindex of 0. It should
> work I think, although I'm not keen on relying on title attributes.
>
> For the image matching, I wonder if the audio alternative could be a
>> soundfile, such as an animal sound, that user can then match to images
>> with descriptive alt texts.
>
> I'm not sure what they are doing for that, I guess I'll have to buy a
> Windows phone so I can use IE on mobile and trigger a fail?!
>
> -Alastair
> > >

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Fri, Dec 05 2014 2:36AM
Subject: Re: reCAPTCHA replacement
Previous message | Next message

On 04/12/2014 15:14, Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
> Strangely, I've had quite a few issues when I tried it...now maybe it's
> due to my inexperience with some of the finer points of NVDA and JAWS,
> but - testing on a similar page http://patrickhlauke.github.io/recaptcha
> with IE and Firefox - I got all sorts of weirdness - not being able to
> actually navigate into the iframe, always being flagged for traditional
> CAPTCHA reverification in IE/JAWS, having the "refresh", "audio captcha"
> etc buttons not actually being activatable in, I seem to remember,
> IE/NVDA. In short, seems a bit hit and miss at the moment...

For what it's worth, I made a few videos of my immediate experiences...

* Google reCAPTCHA - Win8.1, NVDA, Firefox and IE11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0NfBYcbe3I

Firefox/NVDA:
- can't seem to TAB forward into the iframe. after the "reCAPTCHA" link,
focus gets set to the iframe, but nothing is announced, and there's no
way to somehow jump into the iframe (unless explicitly using "m" key to
navigate between frames in NVDA)
- reverse-tabbing from the bottom of the document works, most of the time.
- in most cases, I get the additional/traditional visual/audio CAPTCHA
- toggling the info button visually opens a short info panel, but this
is not announced and can't seem to navigate to it
- can actually navigate back out of the additional CAPTCHA dialog
- error message about having entered a wrong CAPTCHA is not
announced/discoverable

IE11/NVDA:
- again, can't TAB forward into the iframe. reverse-tabbing seems to
work most of the time
- manage to set focus on the faked checkbox, but for some reason can't
seem to activate it - SPACE/ENTER have no effect (attempted a refresh,
but result still the same)


* Google reCAPTCHA - Win8.1, JAWS16, Firefox

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z55rnQ4xBgg

Firefox/JAWS:
- tabbing forward into the iframe does work (compared to NVDA)
- once the additional CAPTCHA challenge is shown, focus is set on the
"Type the text" input, but nothing is announced
- info button opens the info panel, but again this is not announced and
doesn't seem to be easily reachable
- can tab in/out of the additional CAPTCHA dialog


* Google reCAPTCHA - Win8.1, JAWS16, IE11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E42PGd2Ytl0

IE11/JAWS:
- the iframe is announced with its non-human-readable identifier
("i0_141732035585 frame")
- once additional CAPTCHA opens, the non-humand readable iframe
identifier is announced twice more, then focus is set on the text entry
input. again, no indication is given
- error message not announced
- moving focus to the refresh, audio challenge, info button, verify
button and hitting SPACE/ENTER has no effect most of the time (though it
seems hitting both quickly sometimes does trigger the buttons)
(after this, JAWS locked up, and IE gracefully crashed a few seconds later)


Sometimes, for no reproducible reason, browsers/AT combinations behaved
subtly differently...but overall there still are quite a few
incompatibilities (at least for me) here. Sure, better than the previous
reCAPTCHA, but potentially still a problem for certain users...

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke

www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: JAKE JOEHL
Date: Fri, Dec 05 2014 5:38AM
Subject: Re: reCAPTCHA replacement
Previous message | Next message

I actually received a link to this on another list, and couldn?t get it to work at all. I tried it out in both Safari and Google Chrome, but all I got was an empty edit box. Interacting didn?t work either. I think the best audio CAPTCHA by far that I?ve seen is on the NFB?s site for their Free Cane program. At least the audio CAPTCHA was present last I checked their site, which was back in the summer of this year. But they used a service called Sounds Right, where you had to pick out a specific instrument from a series of sounds. To me though, the best kind of CAPTCHA is either none at all or a text-based one because they don?t discriminate against people with hearing impairments.
Jake
Please visit me at http://jazzyjj.dreamwidth.org .



On Dec 4, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Mallory van Achterberg < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

A blind friend with a Mac tested one successfully with VO in Safari
(desktop).

_mallory

From: Clark, Michelle - NRCS, Washington, DC
Date: Fri, Dec 05 2014 6:02AM
Subject: Re: reCAPTCHA replacement
Previous message | Next message

Actually, I was just on the NFB site this past Sunday for their "Bid for Equality". They used a question and answer type. They asked a simple math question and one had to type in the answer.



Thank You,


Michelle Clark
Information Technology Specialist
Section 508 Coordinator
Office of the Chief Information Officer
USDA / Natural Resources Conservation Service
1400 Independence Ave. SW.
Rm. 1669-S
Washington, DC. 20250

O: 202 2609014
E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
To learn more about Section 508, go to www.section508.gov.

"The best way to not feel hopeless is to get up and do something. Don't wait for good things to happen to you. If you go out and make some good things happen, you will fill the world with hope, you will fill yourself with hope."
´┐Ż Barack Obama


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of JAKE JOEHL
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2014 7:39 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] reCAPTCHA replacement

I actually received a link to this on another list, and couldn't get it to work at all. I tried it out in both Safari and Google Chrome, but all I got was an empty edit box. Interacting didn't work either. I think the best audio CAPTCHA by far that I've seen is on the NFB's site for their Free Cane program. At least the audio CAPTCHA was present last I checked their site, which was back in the summer of this year. But they used a service called Sounds Right, where you had to pick out a specific instrument from a series of sounds. To me though, the best kind of CAPTCHA is either none at all or a text-based one because they don't discriminate against people with hearing impairments.
Jake
Please visit me at http://jazzyjj.dreamwidth.org .



On Dec 4, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Mallory van Achterberg < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

A blind friend with a Mac tested one successfully with VO in Safari
(desktop).

_mallory
This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete the email immediately.

From: Maraikayar Prem Nawaz
Date: Fri, Dec 05 2014 8:20AM
Subject: Re: reCAPTCHA replacement
Previous message | Next message

For me works fine on Chrome with ChromeVox and Safari with Voiceover and
Firefox with Voiceover.


On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 6:32 PM, Clark, Michelle - NRCS, Washington, DC <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Actually, I was just on the NFB site this past Sunday for their "Bid for
> Equality". They used a question and answer type. They asked a simple math
> question and one had to type in the answer.
>
>
>
> Thank You,
>
>
> Michelle Clark
> Information Technology Specialist
> Section 508 Coordinator
> Office of the Chief Information Officer
> USDA / Natural Resources Conservation Service
> 1400 Independence Ave. SW.
> Rm. 1669-S
> Washington, DC. 20250
>
> O: 202 2609014
> E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> To learn more about Section 508, go to www.section508.gov.
>
> "The best way to not feel hopeless is to get up and do something. Don't
> wait for good things to happen to you. If you go out and make some good
> things happen, you will fill the world with hope, you will fill yourself
> with hope."
> ´┐Ż?? Barack Obama
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of JAKE JOEHL
> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2014 7:39 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] reCAPTCHA replacement
>
> I actually received a link to this on another list, and couldn't get it to
> work at all. I tried it out in both Safari and Google Chrome, but all I got
> was an empty edit box. Interacting didn't work either. I think the best
> audio CAPTCHA by far that I've seen is on the NFB's site for their Free
> Cane program. At least the audio CAPTCHA was present last I checked their
> site, which was back in the summer of this year. But they used a service
> called Sounds Right, where you had to pick out a specific instrument from a
> series of sounds. To me though, the best kind of CAPTCHA is either none at
> all or a text-based one because they don't discriminate against people with
> hearing impairments.
> Jake
> Please visit me at http://jazzyjj.dreamwidth.org .
>
>
>
> On Dec 4, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Mallory van Achterberg <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> A blind friend with a Mac tested one successfully with VO in Safari
> (desktop).
>
> _mallory
> > > >
> > > >
>
>
>
> This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely
> for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message
> or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law
> and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you
> have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete
> the email immediately.
> > > >

From: Randy Pope
Date: Fri, Dec 05 2014 8:50PM
Subject: Re: reCAPTCHA replacement
Previous message | No next message

Speaking as a deaf-blind person, both legally blind with little sight and
deaf, I just did a quick review of Google new replacement.

Firefox: When I first click on the link, I got this checkbox message asking
me if I'm not a robot. I click that and it appears I got through. No
graphic photo or CAPTCHA to deal with. That's good. Five minutes later I
again test the site but this time the old reCAPTCHA appeared on the screen
which required me to type in the information on the image. Since I cannot
see the screen well enough, I was unable to type in the information, I'm
also deaf which may the audio challenge completely useless for me.

IE 11: I follow the same steps as I did with Firefox and got the same
result. I have tried closing IE and click on the same link at different
time, ten minute apart and still got the same result.

To me this Google new replacement remains to be inaccessible for the people
who are deaf-blind. Thank you, Alastair, for sharing this link. This
information has re-generated my energy and reinforce my belief against
CAPTCHA in any form.

Randy Pope

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Alastair Campbell
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 9:11 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: [WebAIM] reCAPTCHA replacement

Interesting post from Google on their update/replacement for re-CAPTCHA:
http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/are-you-robot-introduci
ng-no-captcha.html

The short story is that they are replacing the current CAPTCHA method
(distorted image-text or distorted audio) with a simple tickbox for "I am
not a robot". They then use some heuristics based on IP address, browser
config, mouse pointer behaviour etc. to guess if you are a robot.

That bit about using mouse movements to analyse your human-ness obviously
rang alarm bells, and I couldn't find an example easily, so I created one
here:
https://alastairc.ac/testing/recaptcha-test.html

At first glance, it is keyboard accessible, has appropriate ARIA attributes
(which are needed as they use a span for a checkbox), and it didn't fail
when I only used the keyboard.

Overall, it looks like an important improvement from an accessibility point
of view. If the heuristics fail you then you get the traditional CAPTCHA
approach, however, that should be a lot less frequent.

It would be interesting to see how the image-matching version works from an
accessibility point of view, I didn't find a way to trigger that within my
lunch break.

-Alastair

PS. Alt text for the images in the blog post:
1. A traditional CAPTCHA where you have to type in the distorted words
shown, or choose the audio option.
2. An animated image showing a checkbox with label "I'm not a robot", and
the reCAPTCHA logo.
3. The checkbox shows the traditional method underneath.
4 & 5. Two examples of the checkbox showing an image of a cat, and then nine
images underneath that to match against.
messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =