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Thread: Scope-Attribute necessary for TH-Element?
Number of posts in this thread: 7 (In chronological order)
From: Wolfgang Berndorfer
Date: Sun, Jul 09 2017 10:47AM
Subject: Scope-Attribute necessary for TH-Element?
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Hi!
Are scope-attributes still considered as necessary for <th>-elements in data
tables?
webaim <http://webaim.org/techniques/tables/data#th>; says Yes. But I read
on w3scholls <https://www.w3schools.com/tags/att_td_scope.asp> that the
attribute is not supported in HTML5.
And: I just tested a simple data table (with no nested headings for columns
or rows): Jaws 17 showed no information or navigation problems, when <th>
was implemented correctly.
Opinions?
Wolfgang Berndorfer
From: JP Jamous
Date: Sun, Jul 09 2017 12:23PM
Subject: Re: Scope-Attribute necessary for TH-Element?
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For backwards compatibility, I would include them.
From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Sun, Jul 09 2017 12:53PM
Subject: Re: Scope-Attribute necessary for TH-Element?
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> But I read on w3scholls <https://www.w3schools.com/tags/att_td_scope.asp> that the attribute is not supported in HTML5.
According to the HTML 5 spec scope is not valid on TD elements but it is on TH elements.
FYI W3schools is not affiliated with the W3C.
Technically when scope is not set it defaults to "auto" which sets the header cell to apply to cells in context.
The general rule of thumb is that scope is likely not needed for column header cells in the first row of a table but would be needed in other situations where lack of scope would be ambiguous how the header is scoped. Assistive technology support should generally be good but may need to be checked for the technology stack you are trying to support.
Best Regards,
Jonathan
Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
Level Access, inc. (formerly SSB BART Group, inc.)
(703) 637-8957
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From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Sun, Jul 09 2017 1:09PM
Subject: Re: Scope-Attribute necessary for TH-Element?
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Jonathan described it well.
If your <th> cells span a single column and are in the first row
scope="col" is not needed.
Ditto <th> cells in first column spanning a single row, scope="row" is
generally not needed.
If a <th> cell spans multiple rows/columns you need to use
scope="colgroup"/"rowgroup" along with the colspan/rowspan attribute.
If the <th> cell is not the first row or column in the table you need
the scope attribute.
On 7/9/17, Jonathan Avila < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> But I read on w3scholls <https://www.w3schools.com/tags/att_td_scope.asp>
>> that the attribute is not supported in HTML5.
>
> According to the HTML 5 spec scope is not valid on TD elements but it is on
> TH elements.
>
> FYI W3schools is not affiliated with the W3C.
>
> Technically when scope is not set it defaults to "auto" which sets the
> header cell to apply to cells in context.
>
> The general rule of thumb is that scope is likely not needed for column
> header cells in the first row of a table but would be needed in other
> situations where lack of scope would be ambiguous how the header is scoped.
> Assistive technology support should generally be good but may need to be
> checked for the technology stack you are trying to support.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jonathan
>
> Jonathan Avila
> Chief Accessibility Officer
> Level Access, inc. (formerly SSB BART Group, inc.)
> (703) 637-8957
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Visit us online: Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog
> Looking to boost your accessibility knowledge? Check out our free webinars!
>
> The information contained in this transmission may be attorney privileged
> and/or confidential information intended for the use of the individual or
> entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution
> or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>
>
From: Wolfgang Berndorfer
Date: Mon, Jul 10 2017 2:46PM
Subject: Re: Scope-Attribute necessary for TH-Element?
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Thanks to all!
I distil the following guidelines out of your answers:
- A simple data table with correct col-headings in the first row does not
need the scope-attribute.
- The scope-attribute should be used for backwards compatibility, when there
are row-headings.
- If a <th> cell spans multiple rows/columns you need to use
scope="colgroup"/"rowgroup" along with the colspan/rowspan attribute.
- If the <th> cell is not the first row or column in the table you need the
scope attribute. [@Birkir: Have no idea, when this could be needed in a
sensefull context.]
- According to the HTML 5 spec scope is not valid on TD elements but it is
on TH elements.
@Jonathan:
I’m Austrian and try to learn a11y-Slang and therefore misunderstand and
missformulate sometimes. You wrote:
“Assistive technology support should generally be good but may need to be
checked for the technology stack you are trying to support.”
Isn’t AT support essential in any technology stack? What did I understand
wrong in Your formulation?
And what I learned about the a11y scene:
W3schools is often useful but not affiliated with the W3C. And when W3C
informations have to be reflected, this has to be noticed by W3C Children
and even more by self called W3C adoptees.
Thanks!
Wolfgang
Zweiter Blick - Für ein barrierefreies Web
Wolfgang Berndorfer
A-6020 Innsbruck, Schidlachstr. 9/3
T: +43 (0) 512 / 560 568
M: +43 (0) 664 / 734 934 05
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-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] Im Auftrag
von Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Gesendet: Sonntag, 09. Juli 2017 21:09
An: WebAIM Discussion List
Betreff: Re: [WebAIM] Scope-Attribute necessary for TH-Element?
Jonathan described it well.
If your <th> cells span a single column and are in the first row
scope="col" is not needed.
Ditto <th> cells in first column spanning a single row, scope="row" is
generally not needed.
If a <th> cell spans multiple rows/columns you need to use
scope="colgroup"/"rowgroup" along with the colspan/rowspan attribute.
If the <th> cell is not the first row or column in the table you need
the scope attribute.
On 7/9/17, Jonathan Avila < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> But I read on w3scholls <https://www.w3schools.com/tags/att_td_scope.asp>
>> that the attribute is not supported in HTML5.
>
> According to the HTML 5 spec scope is not valid on TD elements but it is
on
> TH elements.
>
> FYI W3schools is not affiliated with the W3C.
>
> Technically when scope is not set it defaults to "auto" which sets the
> header cell to apply to cells in context.
>
> The general rule of thumb is that scope is likely not needed for column
> header cells in the first row of a table but would be needed in other
> situations where lack of scope would be ambiguous how the header is
scoped.
> Assistive technology support should generally be good but may need to be
> checked for the technology stack you are trying to support.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jonathan
>
> Jonathan Avila
> Chief Accessibility Officer
> Level Access, inc. (formerly SSB BART Group, inc.)
> (703) 637-8957
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Visit us online: Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog
> Looking to boost your accessibility knowledge? Check out our free
webinars!
>
> The information contained in this transmission may be attorney privileged
> and/or confidential information intended for the use of the individual or
> entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
distribution
> or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>
>
From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Mon, Jul 17 2017 9:58AM
Subject: Re: Scope-Attribute necessary for TH-Element?
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> I’m Austrian and try to learn a11y-Slang and therefore misunderstand and missformulate sometimes. You wrote: “Assistive technology support should generally be good but may need to be checked for the technology stack you are trying to support.” Isn’t AT support essential in any technology stack? What did I understand wrong in Your formulation?
All I was trying to say is that in order to make a claim of WCAG conformance you need to define and evaluate whether the techniques used to meet the success criteria are supported by the user agent and assistive technology that you are using to make the claim. That is -- your implementation doesn't have to work with all user agents or assistive technologies -- strictly speak it only has to work with one -- but most experts agree that two is needed -- which assistive technology and user agents are not defined but the access to content should be taken into account during this determination. For example, for an internal site where an organization can control the technology used a smaller set of technology is likely sufficient. However for public access a broader set of technology support is likely needed -- but broad doesn't mean all although the goal is more support by more user agents and assistive technology.
Jonathan
Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
Level Access, inc. (formerly SSB BART Group, inc.)
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
703.637.8957 (Office)
Visit us online: Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog
Looking to boost your accessibility knowledge? Check out our free webinars!
The information contained in this transmission may be attorney privileged and/or confidential information intended for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
From: Sailesh Panchang
Date: Mon, Jul 17 2017 12:05PM
Subject: Re: Scope-Attribute necessary for TH-Element?
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Actually, TH with scope=row for row headers was needed a few JAWS
versions-ago because JAWS seemed to have introduced a bug in
interpreting row headers back then. This has since been resolved.
The scope attribute is valid on TD too in HTML 4.01 (if one has legacy
content) and also works in HTML5 mostly but will generate a
validation issue.
See H63 technique at
https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/H63.html
For example of td with scope=row see Contact Info table:
http://www.eramp.com/david/tablesample2.htm
Best wishes,
On 7/17/17, Jonathan Avila < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> I'm Austrian and try to learn a11y-Slang and therefore misunderstand and
>> missformulate sometimes. You wrote: 'Assistive technology support should
>> generally be good but may need to be checked for the technology stack you
>> are trying to support.- Isn't AT support essential in any technology
>> stack? What did I understand wrong in Your formulation?
>
> All I was trying to say is that in order to make a claim of WCAG conformance
> you need to define and evaluate whether the techniques used to meet the
> success criteria are supported by the user agent and assistive technology
> that you are using to make the claim. That is -- your implementation
> doesn't have to work with all user agents or assistive technologies --
> strictly speak it only has to work with one -- but most experts agree that
> two is needed -- which assistive technology and user agents are not defined
> but the access to content should be taken into account during this
> determination. For example, for an internal site where an organization can
> control the technology used a smaller set of technology is likely
> sufficient. However for public access a broader set of technology support
> is likely needed -- but broad doesn't mean all although the goal is more
> support by more user agents and assistive technology.
>
> Jonathan
>
> Jonathan Avila
> Chief Accessibility Officer
> Level Access, inc. (formerly SSB BART Group, inc.)
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> 703.637.8957 (Office)
> Visit us online: Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog
> Looking to boost your accessibility knowledge? Check out our free webinars!
>
> The information contained in this transmission may be attorney privileged
> and/or confidential information intended for the use of the individual or
> entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution
> or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>
>
>