E-mail List Archives
Re: Trying to find middle ground with a developer
From: Jonathan Cohn
Date: Aug 8, 2017 9:16PM
- Next message: escetic@gmail.com: "
- for form layout?"
- Previous message: Karlen Communications: "Results for two accessible PDF surveys posted"
- Next message in Thread: Sarah Ferguson: "Re: Trying to find middle ground with a developer"
- Previous message in Thread: Sarah Ferguson: "Re: Trying to find middle ground with a developer"
- View all messages in this Thread
Sarah,
Interesting about Macintosh only I didn't get that feeling when I was visiting Brandeis. In any case, Macintoshes VoiceOver has a idea of interacting and stop interacting that can be "interesting". It sounds like the menu might be considered a grouping by VoiceOver that one would need to interact with to read the individual items. You might be able to have a aria-label for the group, I have noticed some things like this on my sites but currently supporting VoiceOver is lower on my priorities so I have not tried to see how to control this.
I believe role=group or role=section causes VoiceOver to group items. Certainly one place you can see grouping in actin is on the FaceBook page where each posting is in its own article. I believe the BETA versions of Safari handle articles differently when working with VoiceOver.
Shalom,
Jonathan Cohn
Best wishes,
Jonathan Cohn
> On Aug 8, 2017, at 1:24 PM, Sarah Ferguson < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
> Thanks Ben. I did get code for ESC. All of our students use MAC, so it's
> important that it works in VO, but I will see how it works in JAWS anyway.
> Thanks
>
> Sarah Ferguson
> Web Accessibility Specialist
> Department of Digital Communications
> Brandeis University *|* 781.736.4259
> www.brandeis.edu/web-accessibility
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Ben Regis < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
>> Just Google something like ... javascript esc close menu ... and you'll
>> see some examples on Stack Overflow - it depends on how the menu is set up
>> but it should hopefully be easy to implement.
>>
>> The HTML looks ok. I tried it using NVDA on various browsers in Windows
>> and it's working properly i.e. it reads out the alt text once, then the
>> caption once. You mentioned VoiceOver below - have you tried other screen
>> readers / browsers / operating systems - it may be a particular combination.
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
>> Behalf Of Sarah Ferguson
>> Sent: 08 August 2017 17:11
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Trying to find middle ground with a developer
>>
>> I did check the menu with ESC and it did not close. (Ben or anyone else)
>> Do you happen to know what she needs to do to make that happen?
>>
>> Sarah Ferguson
>> Web Accessibility Specialist
>> Department of Digital Communications
>> Brandeis University *|* 781.736.4259
>> www.brandeis.edu/web-accessibility
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 12:08 PM, Sarah Ferguson < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ben,
>>>
>>> I can't promise she wasn't in the middle of working on this when I
>>> captured it, but here:
>>>
>>> <div class="captioned-image-wrap">
>>> <figure class="captioned-image left">
>>>
>>> <img alt="Students in hallway of Schneider Building"
>>> src="../../images/upperfordiversitypage.jpg" width="479"/>
>>> <figcaption>
>>> <a
>>> href="../../nrcpd/index.html">
>>> Students at Heller are
>>> conversing in the hallway
>>> </a>
>>> </figcaption>
>>> </figure>
>>>
>>> Sarah Ferguson
>>> Web Accessibility Specialist
>>> Department of Digital Communications
>>> Brandeis University *|* 781.736.4259 <(781)%20736-4259>
>>> www.brandeis.edu/web-accessibility
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Ben Regis < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Sarah
>>>>
>>>> The double alt reading just seems wrong then - can you copy the bit
>>>> of HTML she's used for the figure and image?
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards
>>>>
>>>> Ben
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
>>>> Behalf Of Sarah Ferguson
>>>> Sent: 08 August 2017 16:49
>>>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>>>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Trying to find middle ground with a developer
>>>>
>>>> Hi Ben,
>>>>
>>>> She said that the site that reads better (in my opinion) throws HTML
>>>> code flags. That site is still in development, as well. While she
>>>> isn't willing to use that code as a solution, she is at least willing
>>>> to keep tinkering, so at least there is that.
>>>>
>>>> I haven't tried the escape key, I will see if that has an effect.
>> thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Regarding the caption, no the caption can be different. The alt text
>>>> reads as a description of the whole (called figure), then again (same
>>>> alt
>>>> text) for the image. Then the caption will read.
>>>>
>>>> Sarah
>>>>
>>>> Sarah Ferguson
>>>> Web Accessibility Specialist
>>>> Department of Digital Communications
>>>> Brandeis University *|* 781.736.4259
>>>> www.brandeis.edu/web-accessibility
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Ben Regis < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Sarah
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not a fan of big menus for any site and it sounds like it's far
>>>>> too difficult to navigate. You said about another of your sites
>>>>> reading the correct number of items and that "She says that the
>>>>> code in that site is incorrect, so she won't follow it." - can you
>>>>> let me know what the address of that site is - it would be
>>>>> interesting to know what she thought was wrong with it.
>>>>>
>>>>> According to http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/#menu the
>>>>> Escape key should allow you to exit the menu - at least that way
>>>>> the user wouldn't need to navigate back out again.
>>>>>
>>>>> With the image issue - are you saying that you can't enter separate
>>>>> text for the caption? So the caption will just use whatever is set
>>>>> for
>>>> alt text?
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Sarah Ferguson
>>>>> Sent: 08 August 2017 15:51
>>>>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>>>>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Trying to find middle ground with a developer
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, Ben. It's not live and is on a secured server.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sarah Ferguson
>>>>> Web Accessibility Specialist
>>>>> Department of Digital Communications Brandeis University *|*
>>>>> 781.736.4259 www.brandeis.edu/web-accessibility
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Ben Regis < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Sarah
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it possible to see the website?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ben
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
>>>>>> On Behalf Of Sarah Ferguson
>>>>>> Sent: 07 August 2017 20:44
>>>>>> To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>>>>>> Subject: [WebAIM] Trying to find middle ground with a developer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have an outside developer working on one of our sites. I've
>>>>>> done a review of the site and she's done a few rounds of fixes.
>>>>>> We have a couple of sticking points.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Hamburger menu**
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The desktop site has a hamburger menu. VoiceOver is reading the
>>>>>> menu as "*Navigation
>>>>>> 3 items*." The open menu actually has 3 columns with 28 items total.
>>>>>> You cannot currently navigate column to column, nor are the
>>>>>> columns ever differentiated by Voiceover. It's read as one long
>>>>>> list. To me, the user hears 3 items and expects 3 items. Getting
>>>>>> 28 items at this point is confusing. Furthermore, I feel that
>>>>>> someone having to backup through 28 items to close a menu with
>>>>>> the toggle that opened it, is
>>>>> asking a lot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would be happy if it either announced 28 items and there was a
>>>>>> way to close the menu without backing all the way up, or if the
>>>>>> user could navigate column to column and drill into each column
>>>>>> (at which point I feel VO should also read the correct number of
>>>>>> items in each
>>>> column).
>>>>>> I've given her another of our sites that reads the actual number
>>>>>> of items. It is also much shorter than 28 items, so closing the
>>>>>> menu is less of an issue. She says that the code in that site is
>>>>>> incorrect, so
>>>>> she won't follow it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The main navigation has a similar issue. It is reading as 1 item
>>>>>> (being 1 list with several items).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Do you think it is ok to have the navigation menus read the
>>>>>> number of lists instead of the number of items? Any ideas for
>>>>>> alternate solutions or examples of sites you feel handle
>>>>>> hamburger menu very
>>>>>> well?*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ****
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Image and caption**
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The second issue is the way she coded images with captions. Right
>>>>>> now, she has coded the image and caption as a figure in HTML5.
>>>>>> This is causing the "figure" (the image and caption together) to
>>>>>> read the alt text, followed by hearing the alt text again for the
>>>>>> image itself and then hearing the caption. I find this
>>>>>> redundant. She argues it is better, because this tagging method
>>>>>> identifies the caption as a caption and not just text. It links
>>>>>> the image and caption together. I can see that point, but the
>>>>>> redundancy still
>>>> bothers me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *What are your thoughts? Do you know of any alternate solutions
>>>>>> for making the caption and image be linked and label the caption
>>>>>> as such, without the alt text reading twice?*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ****
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>> Sarah
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sarah
>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>> >>>> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>>>> >>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>> >>>> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>>>> >>>>
>>>
>>>
>> >> >> at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >>
>>
>> >> >> >> >>
> > > >
- Next message: escetic@gmail.com: "
- for form layout?"
- Previous message: Karlen Communications: "Results for two accessible PDF surveys posted"
- Next message in Thread: Sarah Ferguson: "Re: Trying to find middle ground with a developer"
- Previous message in Thread: Sarah Ferguson: "Re: Trying to find middle ground with a developer"
- View all messages in this Thread