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Re: How does a Screen Reader work?

for

From: Travis Roth
Date: Mar 7, 2007 11:00AM

Tedd wrote:
"However, what I can do is to use FLASH to deliver the sound without
refreshing. It works for sighted users who can find the icon, but I
don't know how a blind user could "click the icon" as provided here:

http://sperling.com/examples/captcha1/
"

Yes, this Flash is not accessible. It is possible to make buttons in Flash
that are acessible. I am not a Flash developer though so I cannot help you
with specifics.

Also it may be possible to use HTML links that use JavaScript to control the
Flash.


Travis Roth
Production Manager
TecAccess, LLC
(804) 749-8646 (office)
(402) 466-0907 (direct)
<EMAIL REMOVED>
www.TecAccess.net
Experts in Section 508 Compliance & Accessibility

NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other confidential
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-----Original Message-----
From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
[mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of tedd
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 8:59 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] How does a Screen Reader work?


Hi Travis:

It appears that top posting is preferable here, so I'll continue the
practice.

You said:

>* The page refreshes twice when the "Speak Captcha" button is pressed.
>When a page refreshes the screen reader will read the new page. Thus
>presently the audio and the screen reader both are speaking at the same
>time; which is a rather difficult situation. The user can silence the
>screen reader, but needs to be quick about it.

I understand -- I'll work on that. This is the type of feedback I need.

You said:

>* Again, the page is refreshed when the "Speak Captcha" button is
>pressed. While the audio is playing, the edit field is not present for
>the user to type. This causes the user to have to remember the sequence
>of keystrokes until after the page refreshes, and the edit field is
>navigated to and typing can begin.

The spoken word in the previous link is delivered by use of html
background sound via <BGSOUND> or <EMBED> tags. Unfortunately, those
tags cannot be written after the document loads. Even if I were to
use ajax, browsers require a refresh for those tags.

However, what I can do is to use FLASH to deliver the sound without
refreshing. It works for sighted users who can find the icon, but I
don't know how a blind user could "click the icon" as provided here:

http://sperling.com/examples/captcha1/

I'm so close to getting this to work, but can't seem to connect. All
I need to find is a way for a blind user to activate the Flash icon
-- any suggestions?

Also, this second example uses different type sound files, so that
might be a problem, but I don't know.

you said:

> The longer the captcha the more problemmatic this will be.

I agree that the longer the captcha the more problematic this will
be. However, studies have shown that three character retention for
sighted users is not a problem.

http://symboldomains.com/sperling.html

I am assuming, and I may be wrong, that remembering three characters
sounds for blind users won't be a problem either.

As for the those who may want to employ my technique, it will be hard
coded to just three characters. The reason for its use is to deter
spam bots and such. I think that one in a thousand chance should be
sufficient protection for most blogs and other such places of concern.

As for other disabilities being locked out -- I'll work on that when
I complete this task.

As for VoiceOver, I'm aware of it, but have not worked with it. You
see, I was developing a "blind" browser for the Mac that would parse
text from web pages and speak it to the user. However, when I heard
of VoiceOver being developed, I stopped development.

As I said, any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

tedd

--- previous correspondences


At 10:12 PM -0600 3/3/07, Travis Roth wrote:
>Hi Tedd,
>
>Mac has a screen reader as well. It is called VoiceOver, and ships as
>part of OS 10.4 and later. I understand that it is not as far along
>developed as its Windows counterparts at this time.
>
>Observation on your captcha demo:
>* It is similar to Google's, and the audio quality seems similar.
>* The page refreshes twice when the "Speak Captcha" button is pressed.
>When a page refreshes the screen reader will read the new page. Thus
>presently the audio and the screen reader both are speaking at the same
>time; which is a rather difficult situation. The user can silence the
>screen reader, but needs to be quick about it.
>* Again, the page is refreshed when the "Speak Captcha" button is
>pressed. While the audio is playing, the edit field is not present for
>the user to type. This causes the user to have to remember the sequence
>of keystrokes until after the page refreshes, and the edit field is
>navigated to and typing can begin. The longer the captcha the more
>problemmatic this will be.
>
>* Would be better if user could type as the characters are heard. To do
>this, do not refresh the page, use some JavaScrit / Ajax techniques
>here.
>* This technique of using sound will work for those who can hear and
>understand reasonably well. However, deaf-blind users, and certain other
>hard of hearing users will still be locked out.
>
>Travis Roth
>Production Manager
>TecAccess, LLC
>(804) 749-8646 (office)
>(402) 466-0907 (direct)
> <EMAIL REMOVED>
>www.TecAccess.net
>Experts in Section 508 Compliance & Accessibility
>
>NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other confidential
>information. If you are not the intended recipient or believe that you
>may have received this communication in error, please reply to the
>sender indicating that fact and delete the copy you received. Thank
>you.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>[mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of tedd
>Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 5:45 PM
>To: <EMAIL REMOVED> ; WebAIM Discussion List
>Subject: Re: [WebAIM] How does a Screen Reader work?
>
>
>At 2:41 PM -0500 3/3/07, Karl Groves wrote:
>>Tedd -
>>
>>Unfortunately, this really is the kind of thing you must experience to
>>understand. On a most basic level, the answer is obvious: It reads the
>>page. But the experience - for the user of the software - is much more
>>than just hearing text being read aloud. Things like navigating,
>>following links, and support for event handlers & dynamic content is
>>also at issue as well.
>>
>>I wholeheartedly recommend downloading a trial version of Jaws:
>>http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_downloads/jaws.asp
>>There are far too many features (such as shortcut keys) for you to be
>>able to learn it during the demo period, but actually using a screen
>>reader for a while will be much more beneficial to you than almost
>>anything.
>>
>>Karl L. Groves
>
>Karl:
>
>I thank you for your recommendation. However, my machine is a Mac and
>Jaws isn't available to me.
>
>In any event, let me present my question another way, I use the "Fangs"
>extension of FireFox to display web pages to me that are supposed to be
>representative of what the blind user hears.
>
>Okay, I get the idea behind that "read and speak" thing. However, I
>don't know how a blind user accesses buttons and edit fields. It's one
>thing to say "button", it's another to have access and be able to
>activate it.
>
>For example, I have an experiment I've been working on, which is an
>audio CAPTCHA. A sighted user can immediately recognize what it is and
>cab use it, but I don't know if a blind or visually impaired user can
>-- and that's the point of the exercise.
>
>So, if it's not too much trouble, can the following link be tested by a
>visually impaired user?
>
>http://sperling.com/examples/captcha/
>
>I think the site is well documented so there is little need for me to
>explain the experiment here.
>
>I am open to receiving comment from all.
>
>Thanks again for your time.
>
>Cheers,
>
>tedd
>
>
>--- previous email ----
>
>
>>User-Centered Design, Inc.
>>Office: 703-729-0998
>>Mobile: 443-889-8763
>>E-Mail: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>>Web: http://www.user-centereddesign.com
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>>> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of tedd
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 2:07 PM
>>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>>> Subject: [WebAIM] How does a Screen Reader work?
>>>
>>> Hi:
>>>
>>> This is my first post to this forum, so if what I'm asking is not
>>> appropriate, please let me know.
>>>
>>> Here goes, I am trying to understand how a screen reader works.
>>> Not so much as to the technology surrounding character
>>> recognition, but how the user interacts and uses buttons, links,
>>> edit fields and such web events.
>>>
>>> Can anyone provide personal experience as to how all this works?
>>>
>>> Please don't tell me to go to a site like Jaws' web site and
>>> read, because I don't have Jaws and the tutorials and such there
>>> don't help much.
>>>
>>> My reason for asking is that I'm a web programmer who is trying
>>> to understand disability issues.
>>>
>>> You may contact me off-list, if you wish.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your attention and time.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> tedd
> >>
>>> --
>>> -------
>>> http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com
> >> http://earthstones.com
>>>