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Re: Alternatives to LEGEND for a radio button?

for

From: E.J. Zufelt
Date: Sep 5, 2009 12:00PM

I haven't really followed this conversation, but being a web developer
and JAWS (and various other screen-readers) user I have to say that I
have no real concerns about the use of the legend element. I would
like it if JAWS provided an option to only speak the heading once when
entering a fieldset, and then provided a keystroke to access the
legend at any other point in time, but this is a JAWS implementation
problem, and not a deficit in fieldset / legend being semantically
correct markup.

HTH,
Everett

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On 5-Sep-09, at 1:51 PM, Geof Collis wrote:

>
>> Hi Yucca
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't know, but you seem to be complaining about bad
>> implementations
>> rather than specifications or pages.
>> Geof:
>> I like how some people always refer to it as complaining, I get
>> that a lot when trying to advocate for accessibility issues. :O)
>>> When I have used it in the past I found it annoying to
>>> be subjected to the same phrase in front of every option, be it
>>> radio
>>> button or checkbox,
>>
>> The legend element is heading-like and specifies a common "heading"
>> for a
>> set of fields that belong together. An author could use a heading
>> element
>> like h2 or just use text before the fields, but legend is
>> specifically
>> related to grouping fields.
>>
>> If a screen reader repeats the legend for every field, then that's
>> a bad
>> idea, though it would be useful to give a user an optional access
>> to legend.
>> In a long sequence of fields, the user might loose track of what the
>> question was.
>> Geof:
>> Perhaps it would be just as easy to put one question per page in
>> that case, all one would need is the heading at the beginning, I am
>> using a program right now that allows you to create tests and it
>> gives me the option of 1 question per page. I like it very much.
>>
>>> for example
>>>
>>> what is your favourite colour checkbox not checked blue
>>> what is your favourite colour checkbox not checked red
>>
>> That's bad, at least a default behavior. It would be equally bad,
>> and rather
>> comparable, if a browser repeated the text in an h2 heading before
>> each
>> paragraph that follows it.
>>
>>> I just want the form to be a form, not something cooked up to make
>>> it look good for the sighted or pass some suspect guideline and I
>>> want the least amount of chatter from JAWS.
>>
>> If this is a JAWS problem, then JAWS, or maybe settings, need
>> fixing. After
>> all, more than 99% of web users are not using JAWS, so it would be
>> disproportionate to remove a reasonably designed element from HTML
>> specifications or stop using it. Besides, authors won't stop using
>> it and
>> won't modify existing pages and software to remove legend and
>> fieldset
>> elements.
>> Geof:
>> Personally I dont run into very many sites that use the fieldset and
>> legend elements anyway. Again I refer to this program I am using
>> ATutor, it has many forms in it, the fieldset and legend elements
>> are used at the beginning of the formbut it does not create extra
>> chatter
>>> I dont want my form
>>> broken up by headings either. Then again maybe I'm asking to much.
>>
>> You are, since the "headings" are in this case important texts that
>> indicate
>> what the question is or what topic some questions relate to. They
>> are not
>> supposed break a form up any more than subheadings break a document -
>> rather, they help in grouping things and giving a group an
>> understandable
>> identity.
>>
>> Geof:
>>
>> Again as I said above, putting questions on separate pages might
>> also be an option. I find it interesting that in the past I have
>> filled out many forms without headings and other semantic markup and
>> had no problems. One of the first things I was taught in the JAWS
>> manual on using web forms was to go through the whole form first
>> before filling it out, that way I got a better understanding of the
>> contents. But hey,that's just me complainig and asking too much. :O)
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> Geof
>
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