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Re: mouseover/hover and keyboard accessible expandablemenu?

for

From: deblist
Date: Nov 6, 2009 12:20PM

On Fri, 6 Nov 2009, Jared Smith wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 11:34 AM, < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
>>  I understand you mean well, but
>> I beg all accessibility-oriented folks to incorporate listening
>> into their process.
>
> An interesting recommendation, seeing as you've yet to acknowledge any
> of the other recommendations made in this thread. Instead, you've
> summarily dismissed them with no justification. What's best for you
> may not be best for everybody else. The techniques you use for
> accessibility (disabling javascript or styles or images) are well
> beyond what many screen reader or keyboard-only users might employ.
>
> Al's been on this list about 20 times longer than you - since at least
> 2005. He is a regular contributor and I assure you his recommendations
> don't come 'off the cuff' or without thorough testing and listening.

I don't even know where to start with this. First of all, you are
telling me that Al's opinions are more valid than mine because
he's been on the list for longer. I would understand you saying
"I know Al, and I trust him, because he's been on the list for
four years." But that's not what you just said there. You
basically used Al's tenure on the list as a bludgeon to tell me
I'm wrong.

I don't understand what anything means to get knowledge the other
recommendations based on this thread. You guys are making
recommendations based on working things out logically for a
process and going through testing and focus groups. What I'm
saying is that AS AN ACTUAL DISABLED USER I have a different
experience. That is something that should make you say "hey,
interesting, tell me more," (as you did, Jared), not "yes, but
your real life experience doesn't match my laboratory focus group
so I am going to ignore it."

Of course many other screen reader or keyboard-only users aren't
not technically oriented and don't have the same experience I do.
Many other non-disabled users aren't as technically oriented as
you are and don't have the same experience you do. Does that mean
that developers of user agents shouldn't take your needs into
account as well as the needs of the non-technically oriented
users? Of course not! Accessibility is about universal design.
Universal design means that there should be a good user
experience for able-bodied advanced users, for able-bodied novice
users, for advanced users with disabilities, for novice users
with disabilities.

One of the reasons I've avoided the programming-for-
accessibility community for so long is because I found it hostile
to individuals with disabilities. The reason I joined the webaim
list when I did is because by spending some time reading the
public archive that seemed to me no longer to be true. I didn't
see what I'm seeing today: the assumption that all users with
disabilities are passive, that they are novices, that they don't
have agency in their own web use, their feedback is not as
important as laboratory understanding and following best
practices or standards.

-deborah