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Re: Jaws and Window Eyes info needed

for

From: Geof Collis
Date: Nov 14, 2009 8:45AM

Point taken. :O)

cheers

Geof
At 10:12 AM 11/14/2009, you wrote:
>Geoff
>
>True, but my point is that if you can access a page with System Access you
>can as well or better with Jaws, so SA can be your lowest accessibility
>denominator. If it takes a screen reader like Jaws to access a web page and
>you can´t access it with a less "fancy" piece of software it clearly shows
>there is an accessibility problem in the pages design.
>
>It's like saying you need photo shop pro to check if a .jpg file works
>rather than just opening it in Internet Explorer.
>
>I would not like to see web designers using the all-to-familiar (and true)
>Freedom Scientific products are awful and they won´t allow us to test our
>page so we don´t have to, argument to absolve themselves of the
>responsibility for testing their web pages, because there are free options
>out there for doing that, and that was my point.
>
>Cheers
>-B
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>[mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Geof Collis
>Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 9:58 AM
>To: WebAIM Discussion List
>Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Jaws and Window Eyes info needed
>
>Hi Birkir
>
>I tried System Access to go and while it is a very useful tool I did
>not find it as good as JAWS so I wouldn't go as far as to say that if
>a page works fine with it then it'll work with other screen readers.
>
>Also, screen readers have very much to do with web accessibility. :O)
>
>cheers
>
>Geof
>
>At 09:09 AM 11/14/2009, you wrote:
> >Keep in mind both System Access from www.satogo.com and NVDA (Non Visual
> >Desktop Access) from www.nvda-project.org are free screen readers that can
> >be used while testing accessibility. If a page works with these two they
> >will work fine with Jaws and the more expensive alternatives (a disclaimer
> >that NVDA is designed for FireFox and its IE support has been very minimal,
> >however I see in their latest update they are adding IE support).
> >NVDA is open source whilst Serotek has provided this free accessibility
> >solution for mobile users and, I suspect, partly for people wanting to test
> >accessibility.
> >I hope I am not seeing a representative portion of this list as I very
> >recently subscribed. I was hoping to see discussions on web accessibility
> >problems, not the usual screen reader bashing, however justified.
> >Cheers
> >-B
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >[mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Samantha Mignano
> >Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 5:35 AM
> >To: WebAIM Discussion List
> >Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Jaws and Window Eyes info needed
> >
> >I would just like to add that we as a company are fully intending
> >buying the full version of Jaws and Windows Eyes for Randi, at our own
> >expense - not hers, along with a computer to run these on.
> >We discussed about trial versions as we thought this might help Randi
> >evaluate the products beforehand, and also help her to get to grips
> >with how much training she feels she might need, so that we can also
> >budget for that too.
> >
> >I advise all of my clients to have testing done on all websites,
> >whether we have developed them or not, with our own team of testers
> >who have a range of disabilities or browsing methods.
> >We have testers who have mobility and/or motor skills impairments,
> >testers who have partial sight, testers with dyslexia, testers with
> >long term pain problems that cause attention and concentration issues
> >for them and more.
> >I am committed to testing with people who have actual requirements,
> >rather than trying to test with the technology alone as I do not feel
> >this works well enough. Like Geoff said, the site or interface needs
> >to be tested by someone who has full knowledge of the barriers he or
> >she encounters for the testing and solutions to be effective.
> >
> >It is not always easy to sell this testing service in to clients as
> >other companies try and say that they have tested the site with a
> >screen reader and some automated tool and think that ticks all the
> >boxes. They seem happy to then deem the product or service accessible
> >- and some clients think that is enough.
> >It does bite me when I hear this as I know there is a very long way to
> >go towards getting sites accessible. We are currently re-doing our own
> >company site and it is going through the same testing with our team
> >before launch to ensure that we are practising what we preach.
> >
> >Samantha Mignano
> >
> >Beyond Metrix Ltd ~ evolving business online ~ http://www.beyondmetrix.com
> >
> >Independent website audits, web strategy, web design & development,
> >usability, accessibility, SEO & online marketing.
> >
> >Need help with your website? Call us now for a free website audit
> >consultation. 08456 44 88 54
> >
> >A UK registered limited company. Company Registration Number: 5734561.
> >VAT registration number 891 2460 17
> >
> >On 14 Nov 2009, at 02:01, Randi wrote:
> >
> > > Oh also, yeah, iTunes is a total pain, but with some doing, I was able
> > > to figure it out and its been wonderful. I found forums of other
> > > Voiceover users to help, so maybe there are other screen reader users
> > > who have figured out the craziness who could help too. Its worth
> > > figuring out if at all possible with Windows readers, because iTunes
> > > is implementing descriptive audio into their videos. It took me days
> > > of playing to figure it out, and then after an update, things changed
> > > and I wanted to hurl the laptop out the window, but thats another
> > > story...
> > >
> > > Please feel free to email me off list if you want to chat, or just
> > > vent about how inaccessible the net can be.
> > >
> > > ~Randi
> > >
> > > http://raynaadi.blogspot.com/
> > >
> > >