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RE: Reading OPTGROUP with JAWS

for

From: Raleigh Way
Date: Apr 17, 2002 4:15PM

I'll be there, but it is going to take me longer to get there. I
don't get off till 5, and then the drive is right at 2 hours. If you
all start at 6, we'll just show up when we get there. Is that ok?

>I created a test page to show how well browsers do or do not support
>optgroup. IE 6 on Windows, NS 6, IE 5 on Mac do support optgroup,
>but IE 6 for Mac is the only one that supports labels for option
>tags. You can see the test page at:
>
><http://www.webaim.org/paul/test/optgroup.htm>;http://www.webaim.org/paul/test/optgroup.htm
>
>Browser support is important to those who view the page with their
>eyes, but for a person using a screen reader, browser support is
>pretty much irrelevant. The important aspect is screen reader
>support. I haven't conducted a thorough test of all of the screen
>readers, but I think that Andrew is right that screen readers will
>simply ignore the optgroup groupings and read the options... I don't
>have quite enough time to test this out, but this would be the next
>thing to investigate.
>
>
>Paul Bohman
>Technology Coordinator
>WebAIM (Web Accessibility in Mind)
>www.webaim.org
>Center for Persons with Disabilities
>www.cpd.usu.edu
>Utah State University
>www.usu.edu
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Andrew Kirkpatrick [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
>Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 2:44 PM
>To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>Subject: Re: Reading OPTGROUP with JAWS
>
>On 4/17/02 3:29 PM, Cohen, Lisa A. ( <EMAIL REMOVED> ) wrote:
>
>Andrew, I'm confused...
>Does JAWS say the group values (OPTGROUP) for you? Which keystrokes
>get him to move to (and say) another OPTGROUP?
>JAWS only says the group values if you include them as the content
>of the <option> tag. What I've always heard is that browsers that
>ignore optgroup will just read the <option> tag, so including the
>optgroup name redundantly is necessary. Browsers such as MacIE will
>use the label tag for the display and will not display the redundant
>information.
>
>IE6 is half and half. It displays the optgroup name, but it doesn't
>use the label for the <option>, so the group name is in bold at
>before the first item in the optgroup, but then each option also
>includes the optgroup name that was included for backward
>compatibility. If you are using the keyboard to access the combo
>box, the optgroup names are skipped in IE6.
>
>Also, I am running IE 5.5 and it doesn't show the OPTGROUP at all...
> you see it in bold? Haven't tried 6.0 because most of my
>government users will not have it for a while.
>
>My IE5.5 is tied up, so I can't verify this, but I'm sure you're right.
>
>A correction to my last post - only Mac IE and IE6 are supporting
>optgroup as outlined above. The other browsers display adequate
>information if the optgroup name is used redundantly for backward
>compatibility.
>
>Andrew
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>From: Andrew Kirkpatrick [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
>Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 2:45 PM
>To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>Subject: Re: Reading OPTGROUP with JAWS
>
>Can you define "support" in this case? Netscape 4.7, Opera 5, IE5.5
>& 6, and MacIE5& 5.1 (undoubtedly there are others, these are the
>ones I checked) all support optgroup. I've attached a sample file.
> When viewing this example in Ie, JAWS reads the options fine.
>
>Mac IE does what I imagine people consider "supporting" optgroup.
> When the combo box is opened, four items appear, some with
>sub-menus. Very clean visually.
>
>Win IE makes the optgroup name bold and not selectable in its
>implementation. A user with a screen reader will hear the optgroup
>name for each sub-item, but the information is available. It would
>be great if screen readers supported an auitory experience similar
>to the visual experience in MacIE.
>
>AWK
>
>On 4/17/02 2:04 PM, Paul Bohman ( <EMAIL REMOVED> ) wrote:
>
>The only technology that I'm aware of that supports optgroup is
>Netscape 6.x. I wish others did, but I don't think they do. Maybe
>the screen reader Emacspeak for Unix/Linux does, but I'm not
>familiar enough with it to know. Emacspeak has support for
>everything it seems, so I wouldn't be surprised if it supports this
>feature.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Cohen, Lisa A. [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
>Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 11:38 AM
>To: WebAIM forum ( <EMAIL REMOVED> )
>Subject: Reading OPTGROUP with JAWS
>
>
>Hello,
>(Apologies for cross-posting... desperately need an answer!)
>I need to code a very long listbox in an HTML form. The HTML 4 spec
>shows an example of using OPTGROUP to group OPTIONS within SELECT
>tags. But this does not appear to work with JAWS (nor does IE 5.5
>do anything with OPTGROUP).
>
>
>
>--
>Andrew Kirkpatrick, Technical Project Coordinator
>CPB/WGBH National Center for Accessible Media
>125 Western Ave.
>Boston, MA 02134
>E-mail: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>Web site: ncam.wgbh.org
>
>617-300-4420 (direct voice/FAX)
>617-300-3400 (main NCAM)
>617-300-2489 (TTY)
>
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