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Re: Link format: to underline or not

for

From: steven
Date: Oct 5, 2010 9:54AM

I think this is where I have real trouble with current standards (including
HTML5 and CSS3).

I also agree that a user should be able to override presentation, but if we
still place links in copy (content) aren't we still mixing content with
function. A link is a function which provides a 'means to get to content'...
and not in fact 'content itself'!? Although current browsers, standards and
implementation suggests that is fine and we often see links made to work
that way, in the same way we placed structure to content using tables and
transparent gifs. Why is that really okay? If we really want to separate
content from function.

Steven





-----Original Message-----
From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
[mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke
Sent: 05 October 2010 16:36
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Link format: to underline or not

the real solution is not for web designers to code style switchers, skip
links, text resizers etc, but for browsers to have clear ways for users to
choose defaults and overrides, and for users to set up their browsing
environment accordingly. isn't that the idea of css? author suggests
presentation, but user can override if needed/desired?

p
--
Patrick H. Lauke


On 5 Oct 2010, at 15:57, "steven" < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> Whose links preference should in fact be the default? Mine as the
developer?
> Other developers? The browser developers? Should there even be a default?
We
> are all users of the internet afterall and everyone is who I am trying to
> cater for ...
>
> Maybe we need to introduce a link to toggle link styling, as per those
font
> size links that are often made available!?
>
> Steven
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of steven
> Sent: 05 October 2010 15:46
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Link format: to underline or not
>
> I agree with your counter points Jared, but should we really still be
> encouraging copy text to be broken up with high contrasting links?
>
> Look at the web page you referred to as an example. By default, the
contrast
> of the links in the copy disrupt the hierarchy of headers and grammatical
> emphasis within the copy itself (it clearly does not read as well as a
> traditional printed text document for example). Not significantly, but the
> links (being styled as per the menu) semantically draw the menu and copy
> together (visually) ... I don't think that is the correct thing to do.
> Encouraging this sort of practice is also not going to help us truely
> separate content from structure, if the structure is being merged into the
> content in such a way, surely?
>
> Or maybe I am being too picky?
>
> Steven
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Jared Smith
> Sent: 05 October 2010 14:40
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Link format: to underline or not
>
> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 7:11 AM, steven wrote:
>> I generally am in favour of making text as easy to read as possible, on
> the
>> basis that text links are generally assistive to non linked text and
>> therefore are often of secondary importance.
>
> I disagree. Any slight decrease in readability of a few underlined
> words of a link is far outweighed by the benefits of having the links
> clearly distinguishable via the underline. Large sections of
> underlined text are more difficult to read, but I haven't seen
> anything that indicates that a succinct, underlined link causes
> readability issues. On the other hand, there's plenty to indicate that
> not underlining links can cause usability issues in many cases. Using
> color alone to distinguish links is not usually sufficient. Consider
> small screen devices, touch screen devices, users with low vision,
> users that override page colors, color-blindness, new users that
> expect links to be underlined, etc.
>
> If you don't underline links by default, be sure to consider the
> significant requirements necessary to make those links truly
> accessible. See http://webaim.org/blog/wcag-2-0-and-link-colors/ for
> more details. In short, you must have sufficient contrast with
> non-link text and you must introduce a non-color designator on both
> mouse hover and keyboard focus.
>
>> And as much as I agree with
>> blue underlined text being commonly associated as links, I consider them
> to
>> be leftovers of a by-gone era that has moved on
>
> I have a tough time believing that the default styling and
> presentation of the most significant element in HTML, the hypertext
> link, is somehow faux pas or a relic of yesteryear. Considering the
> proliferation of touch screen devices, I strongly suspect that
> non-underlined links will instead soon become the leftovers of a
> by-gone era.
>
> Jared Smith
> WebAIM
>