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Re: Definition list vs. Table


From: adam solomon
Date: Dec 25, 2010 3:24PM

Despite you reassurances, I'm still wary of not marking up this html at all.
After all, we do have relationships between the data. In addition, I would
prefer one standard which I can advise all of our developers to adopt all of
the time. Sonetimes we have larger lists of data (though always one user for
the sake of argument), and sometimes shorter ones. Wouldn't it be better to
have one standard for them so that we don't lose out on the larger lists?
If, as Jared seems to indicate, the markup is a burden, then I should in
fact take it on a case by case basis. But, if it is only unnecessary (for
shorter lists), then I would be more comfortable instituting one markup
standard for all of our lists. As such, it wouldn't hurt and often would
help, as I understood from Birkir. I would still like to hear which of the
two options is preferable under the circumstances (unless you all are dead
set against any markup). Thanks in advance.

2010/12/24 Birkir Rúnar Gunnarsson < <EMAIL REMOVED> >

> Hi
> I have a slightly different perspective on this, as a screen reader user.
> If you have a lot of user information on a page, providing it without
> a structure is a big inconvenience to a screen reader user.
> Providing the info as a list or a table allows screen reader users to
> quickly jump between users using an html shortcut key, like "l" to
> jump to next list or "t" to jump to next table.
> I have many problems with www.nhl.com/scores but I love their format
> during live games, each game has its own table with game information
> that is updated every minute or so, it is easily navigable, if I want
> to follow the fifth game of the night I simply press t five times and
> get straight to it. If I had to use the arrow keyes or tab to get
> through all the other information before getting there it would take
> forever, plus the page refreshes and would put me back on top before I
> got a chance to find the info I want.
> I believe all the major screen readers have one key shortcuts to find
> next table or list on a page, usually t for table and l for list.
> So, if we are talking about one or two person whose info you want to
> display, sure, you can use plain text and no html mark up so I agree
> with Jared in that scenario.
> But if you are displaying more, say 3 to 6 users, you can create an
> unorderred list for every user. That way the uscreen reader user can
> use "l" to jump between them until they find the user first name they
> are looking for.
> If you have more users I'd recommend a table with one row ffor each
> user. Screen Readers generally cope quite well with tables so this
> would be the quickest way to present such info in my opinion,
> especially if you can keep the users listed in a predictable order,
> such as alphabetical.
> Thanks and happy holidays.
> -Birkir
> On 12/24/10, Jared Smith < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> > On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 4:39 AM, adam solomon
> > < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >> Let us say I have a web page which contains information about a
> particular
> >> individual. The content would look like this:
> >>
> >> first name: john
> >> last name: doe
> >> telephone: 111-1111
> >> city: beverly hills
> >> state: california
> >
> > Why isn't this sufficient? This is by far the easiest, most
> > straightforward presentation of this information. I see no benefit
> > from using a list or table. All it would do is overburden the author
> > and present additional information to the user that is not necessary.
> >
> > You could use microformats in addition to this, but no assistive
> > technology I know of utilizes them.
> >
> > Jared
> >