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Re: Interesting effect with CSS

for

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Jan 8, 2012 8:30AM

On 08/01/2012 14:14, Leif Halvard Silli wrote:
> Patrick H. Lauke, Sun, 08 Jan 2012 13:36:27 +0000:

> I disagree slightly with your analysis: The Opera Mini behavior shows
> that users could voluntarily opt to have their 'reader' identify as
> something that gives them a better experience.

Sure, but by default browsers will identify as whatever gets them the
best layout (which is why mobile browsers consistently say they're
"screen" devices, to avoid getting fed low-end layouts while they're in
fact capable of high-end rendering).

Apart from that one option in Opera Mini, I don't think any other mobile
browser obeys "handheld" nor offers an option to do so. That's why I
doubt desktop browsers etc will start to offer this option.

Another hindrance, in my view, has been that CSS media types are
mutually exclusive. A device can't say "I'm both a screen device AND a
handheld"...it's either/or. And as the majority of styles out in the
wild web target "screen" (when really, in most cases, they could just
target "all"), devices opt to say they're "screen".

If CSS spec was changed to say "a device can read 'screen' AND, if there
are specific 'handheld' styles, also use those" then we'd have quite a
powerful new mechanism for cross-device layouts etc. Alas, the spec
doesn't allow it. Btw this is a similar discussion I've been having
recently about the type "tv"...and the exact same reason why Opera on
TVs (Sony Bravias, Philips, etc) obeys "screen" rather than "tv"...

Sorry, long rambling to say: I wouldn't hold my breath, even if a
portion of users would love to have the ability...

> doesn't sound as if the very
> idea of more basic quality - or how you would put it - for certain
> devises, is exactly dead.

But specifically for "handheld", those styles generally assumed "a
device that barely supports CSS 1, and even there with huge exceptions".
I'm all for optimised, simplified layouts (which is what we're seeing
with mobile-specific sites, or even with fancy new
responsive/mediaqueried sites)...but those styles for old handheld
devices (think around 1995s capabilities or thereabouts) do a lot more
harm than good...and sadly, there's enough legacy of that sort on the
web to avoid having it enabled again on modern devices - as the large
majority of customers would simply complain ("Opera is stupid, it
renders my pages with no styles..." et al)

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke