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Re: Is use of <label> and title redundant?

for

From: Patrick Dunphy
Date: Nov 12, 2012 3:06PM

Thank you Sailesh for clarifying.. Zoomtext isn't something I've worked
with so I feel better having read your response. The instances where I
prefer to use the off screen technique isn't for duplication rather to give
more context when appropriate.

Thanks again - I appreciate the response.
On Nov 12, 2012 3:22 PM, "Sailesh Panchang" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
wrote:

> Patrick,
> Screen magnification s/w like Zoomtext expose / speak off-screen text
> labels.
> Simply using the OS' / browser's features to magnify will not expose
> off-screen labels.
> Off-screen technique should be used only where necessary;
> Inappropriate / over usage results in duplication and may not be
> available to magnification users in some situations.
> Sailesh
>
>
> On 11/10/12, Patrick Dunphy < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> > I practice that there are usually only 2 instances where I consider
> > acceptable use of title attributes. First being for Iframe usage & the
> > second would be as you mentioned - form controls such as a site's global
> > search.
> >
> > Can you please clarify something you've said? How is an off screen label
> > available for magnification users? I wouldn't have thought that to be the
> > case. Also curious to hear your thoughts about this being applicable to
> > other off screen text usages - making text links understood out of
> context &
> > indicating position within a section nav.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > -PD
> >
> >
> > On 2012-11-10, at 7:53 PM, Sailesh Panchang < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> As per WCAG2 techniques, title on form controls should be used when
> >> visible label is not present ... i.e. when purpose of form control is
> >> obvious generally to sighted users / as per UI design.
> >> (If purpose is not obvious visually, then the fix is to incorporate a
> >> visual text label for the benefit of all users).
> >>
> >> Using title in these situations mainly to convey purpose of control to
> >> non-sighted users is well supported by browsers and AT, both recent
> >> and legacy ones.
> >> Title is also available via mouseover to some sighted users who might
> >> need them.
> >> I do not recommend using off-screen label: it is more work and code
> >> and not available to anyone except screen reader / magnification users
> >> unless CSS is turned off.
> >> Sailesh Panchang
> >> Deque Systems
> >>
> >>
> >> On 11/9/12, Michael R. Burks < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >>> I would like to add that we should code to the standards, not to a
> >>> specific
> >>> type of Assistive Technology.
> >>>
> >>> Sincerely,
> >>>
> >>> Mike Burks
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >>> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Michael R.
> >>> Burks
> >>> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 7:51 PM
> >>> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> >>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Is use of <label> and title redundant?
> >>>
> >>> It has not been my experience that title attributes work well with
> >>> Dragon
> >>>
> >>> Sincerely,
> >>>
> >>> Mike Burks
> >>> 919-882-1884 - Fax
> >>> 919-349-6661 - Office
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >>> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Ryan E.
> >>> Benson
> >>> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 6:59 PM
> >>> To: <EMAIL REMOVED> ; WebAIM Discussion List
> >>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Is use of <label> and title redundant?
> >>>
> >>> Léonie Watson wrote:
> >>>> Most screen readers don't acknowledge the title attribute by default,
> >>>> although they can be configured to do so. VoiceOver is the exception I
> >>>> think.
> >>> ZoomText (v9.5 at least) will read the title attribute instead of the
> >>> label.
> >>> The same goes with links with a title attribute, it reads the title
> >>> versus
> >>> linking words.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Ryan E. Benson
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 2:32 PM, Léonie Watson < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >>>> Angela French wrote:
> >>>> " Is the use of a <label> tag to identify association with a text
> >>>> field and the simultaneous use of the title attribute in the <input>
> >>>> tag redundant, such that it should be avoided? In other words, would
> >>>> a screen reader say the word twice?"
> >>>>
> >>>> Most screen readers don't acknowledge the title attribute by default,
> >>>> although they can be configured to do so. VoiceOver is the exception I
> >>>> think.
> >>>>
> >>>> Assuming the label is visible, it's worth asking what value the title
> >>>> attribute brings in this case?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Léonie.
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >>>> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Angela
> >>>> French
> >>>> Sent: 09 November 2012 18:22
> >>>> To: 'WebAim Forum ( <EMAIL REMOVED> )'
> >>>> Subject: [WebAIM] Is use of <label> and title redundant?
> >>>>
> >>>> Hello,
> >>>> Is the use of a <label> tag to identify association with a text field
> >>>> and the simultaneous use of the title attribute in the <input> tag
> >>>> redundant, such that it should be avoided? In other words, would a
> >>>> screen reader say the word twice?
> >>>>
> >>>> Example:
> >>>>
> >>>> <label for="searchfield" class="offscreen"> Search</label><input
> >>>> id="searchfield" type="text" title="Search">
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Angela French
> >>>> Internet Specialist
> >>>> State Board for Community and Technical Colleges
> >>>> 360-704-4316
> >>>> <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >>>> http://www.checkoutacollege.com/
> >>>>
> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >>> > >>> > list
> >>> messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >>>
> >>> > >>> > list
> >>> messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >>>
> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>
> >> > >> > >> > >
> > > >