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Re: A case for artifacting bullets in unordered lists in PDFs

for

From: Sailesh Panchang
Date: Jul 23, 2013 9:34AM

My understanding is that tagging the bullet as li_label and the text
of the list item as li_title gets JAWS to announce the bullet as a
bullet.
In an ordered list the number is tagged as the label.
Sailesh

On 7/23/13, Jonathan Metz < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> Hmm, interesting.
>
> How do you interpret lists in PDFs that are not bulleted or numbered
> lists, say a dictionary list.
>
> What would happen if AT all of a sudden changed the way it handles
> unordered lists in the future? Wouldn’t that workaround create a problem
> in the future?
>
> Thanks for your input!
>
> Jon
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7/23/13 10:45 AM, "McMorland, Gabriel" < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
>>I strongly agree with Priti. I am a blind screen reader user and the
>>bullets are helpful. They convey meaning.
>>I like Priti's suggestion for labeling bullets so they don't just read as
>>"graphic" when the screen reader encoutners them.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>>[mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Priti Rohra
>>Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 10:40 AM
>>To: WebAIM Discussion List
>>Subject: Re: [WebAIM] A case for artifacting bullets in unordered lists
>>in PDFs
>>
>>Hi,
>>
>>As a screenreader user i need bullets to differentiate between list
>>items of an unordered list.
>>
>>As an a11y consultant, i'll recommend to add actual text (bullet) within
>>the lbl tag to inform jaws to read the same.
>>
>>HTH.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Priti.
>>
>>
>>
>>On 7/23/13, Jonathan Metz < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Currently I¹m working with someone who insists that unordered lists
>>> should have a <Lbl> in the tag tree if there is a graphic or glyph
>>> representing the Œbullet¹ character. My approach to unordered lists in
>>> PDFs is to artifact the bullet character. The only places I can back
>>> up this idea is from brief mention from CommonLook
>>> (http://www.commonlook.com/docs-commonlook-pdf-lists#lbl) that directs
>>> "If the bullet character itself provides no additional meaning,
>>> bullets in unordered lists should be marked as artifacts,² and the
>>> PDF/UA Technical Implementation Guide
>>> (http://www.aiim.org/Research-and-Publications/standards/committees/PD
>>> FUA/T
>>> echnical-Implementation-Guide) under 7.6 Lists, ³In such cases the
>>> graphics objects representing the list's labels should not be
>>> contained in the logical structure and should be marked as Artifacts.²
>>>
>>> This is all well and good, but it doesn¹t answer my client¹s complaint
>>> that if JAWS comes across a bulleted list, it¹s difficult to
>>> differentiate the different List Item elements on the page. Is there a
>>> way that AT is 'supposed' to interpret unordered lists? If we go with
>>> my preference, how does the average AT user typically acknowledge
>>> separate list item elements on a page? The problem is, while it would
>>> be great to have every PDF we make conform to ISO 14289; technically
>>> they only need to conform to Section 508. Worse, the only reference to
>>> handling lists from WCAG (which Section 508 Refresh is essentially
>>> going to mirror) can be found at
>>>http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20120103/PDF21.
>>>
>>> This page has the worst recommendation for creating lists. First it
>>> suggests that using the list button on the ribbon as the "easiest way
>>> to ensure that lists are formatted correctly when they are converted to
>>>PDF².
>>> It doesn¹t actually, since it throws the label element in with the
>>> <Lbody> whenever one exports a list from Word. The user always has to
>>> edit those elements in the tag tree later. It even goes so far as to
>>> show screenshots of what happens when you do that. The worst part of
>>> this Œtechnique¹ is that it mentions the List Elements, but completely
>>> fails to explain what to do with any of them.
>>>
>>> Any way, any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>> Jonathan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >>> >>> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
>>>
>>>>>>messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
>>>>>>>
> > > >