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Re: Using has-poppup to affect touch UIs

for

From: Bryan Garaventa
Date: Dec 13, 2013 9:55AM

I understand, but the screen reader behaviors have to be taken into account
as well when implementing real world solutions.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Faulkner" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using has-poppup to affect touch UIs


> Hi Bryan,
>
> note the advice is not set in stone, and can be changed if use cases arise
> as they appear to be.
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>;
>
>
> On 13 December 2013 16:35, Bryan Garaventa
> < <EMAIL REMOVED> >wrote:
>
>> Actually I had the same question yesterday, and got some confirmation
>> about
>> this which I've pasted below. The attribute aria-haspopup should only be
>> used on menus.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joseph Scheuhammer" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> To: < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 11:15 AM
>> Subject: Re: Using aria-haspopup to simulate hover on touch-enabled
>> devices
>> (Windows)
>>
>>
>> > On 2013-12-12 2:09 PM, Bryan Garaventa wrote:
>> >> One concern I have is that hover can be used for many things, not just
>> >> for menus, and if devs start implementing aria-haspopup on all
>> >> elements that show hover activity, screen readers like JAWS and NVDA
>> >> will be announcing "Menu" and "Submenu" everywhere.
>> >
>> > Right. The spec states that aria-haspopup is for menus:
>> > " Indicates that the element has a popup context menu or sub-level
>> > menu."
>> >
>> > I goes on to say that tooltips are not considered popups; tooltips
>> > generally "pop up" on a mouse hover. That entails that aria-haspopup
>> > should not be used except to indicate that there is a menu associated
>> > with the current element.
>> >
>> > Is Microsoft applying aria-haspopup to *any* content that can be
>> > revealed on hover?
>> >
>> > --
>> > ;;;;joseph.
>> >
>> >
>> > 'A: After all, it isn't rocket science.'
>> > 'K: Right. It's merely computer science.'
>> > - J. D. Klaun -
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Steve Faulkner" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 5:00 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using has-poppup to affect touch UIs
>>
>>
>> > Hi Alastair,
>> >
>> > interesting,
>> >
>> > However, I know Bryan has done some testing which prompted him to say:
>> > "The
>> >> attribute aria-haspopup should only be used on triggering elements
>> >> that
>> >> open menus. Otherwise, the presence of the attribute will only
>> >> misrepresent
>> >> the popup type to screen reader users." (from
>> >> http://whatsock.com/tsg/)
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > the aria-haspopup state allows authors to set the MSAA
>> > STATE_SYSTEM_HASPOPUP "When invoked, the object displays a pop-up menu
>> > or
>> > a
>> > window." [1]
>> >
>> > While the ARIA spec does define haspop more explicitly than MSAA, and
>> > is
>> > generally treated as an indication of the presence of a menu asscoiated
>> > with the control, it is not always treated as such. For example, using
>> > JAWS
>> > if a link has aria-haspopup it announces that the link "has pop up"
>> rather
>> > than specifically stating menu/submenu which is the behaviour exhibited
>> > when present on controls and by other AT (not extensively tested).
>> > "Indicates that the element has a popup context menu or sub-level
>> > menu."
>> > [2]
>> >
>> > I have a page with some test cases which may be helpful [3].
>> >
>> > I would suggest that the expansion of the meaning of aria-haspopup
>> > should
>> > be specified (an issue for ARIA 1.1 [4]). I have sent an email to the
>> > PF
>> > list in this regard [5]
>> >
>> > [1]
>> > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd373609%28v=3dvs.85%29.aspx
>> > [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/states_and_properties#aria-haspopup
>> > [3] https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/377471/aria-haspopup.html
>> > [4] http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-1.1/
>> > [5]
>> >
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg-comments/2013OctDec/0004.html
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > Regards
>> >
>> > SteveF
>> > HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>;
>> >
>> >
>> > On 13 December 2013 09:54, Alastair Campbell < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> I came across an interesting article from Microsoft about an approach
>> >> they
>> >> are taking, "Using aria-haspopup to simulate hover on touch-enabled
>> >> devices":
>> >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/jj152135%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
>> >>
>> >> At first glance has-popup appears to be a useful indicator that touch
>> >> devices could use to trigger the hover-interaction first, and then a
>> >> second
>> >> tap activates the control. It would appear to work from that point of
>> >> view,
>> >> for things like menus which have on-hover states.
>> >>
>> >> However, I know Bryan has done some testing which prompted him to say:
>> >> "The
>> >> attribute aria-haspopup should only be used on triggering elements
>> >> that
>> >> open menus. Otherwise, the presence of the attribute will only
>> >> misrepresent
>> >> the popup type to screen reader users." (from
>> >> http://whatsock.com/tsg/)
>> >>
>> >> Does anyone foresee problems with this method, in terms of encouraging
>> >> the
>> >> use of has-popup for non-accessibility reasons?
>> >>
>> >> On the other hand, perhaps it will mean lots more sites will use
>> >> has-popup,
>> >> at least somewhat appropriately...?
>> >>
>> >> -Alastair
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> > >> > >> > >>
>> >> >> >>
> > >