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Re: Announcing Region Labels on OSX

for

From: Jonathan Avila
Date: May 16, 2014 6:54AM

[Jesse wrote] Btw, do you know what apple considers a proper landmark? Is
there a resource you can share?

I've noticed inconsistencies with other screen readers too. For example,
NVDA will announce ARIA landmarks and move to them with the d keystroke --
however, HTML5 elements such as nav and aside which have direct ARIA
landmark equivalents are not considered landmarks. This is unfortunate
and causes people to add ARIA roles to native HTML5 code.

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
[mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Jesse Hausler
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 1:49 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Announcing Region Labels on OSX

Bikir,

This is an interesting point you make. Part of the reason for wrapping the
entire product in role="application" is so we can follow a model similar
to a microsoft or adobe style building tool.

So you're suggesting that if one of our "panels" has a form inside. I
should wrap the form in a div with role="document". That's fair enough,
but would that limit our ability to have the F6 key control cycling
through our panels?

I'm going to test this out tomorrow. Thanks for the great insight!

Btw, do you know what apple considers a proper landmark? Is there a
resource you can share?

Thanks,
Jesse


On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 6:29 PM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
<EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> role="region" is not considered a landmark by Apple. Therefore any
> landmark navigation options in Voiceover do not include regions.
> VO announces labels of named regions when user enters/leaves the
> regions in course of normal linear navigation.
>
> A further thought on your application design, without having seen it
> of course.
> Make sure to wrap any static piece of content inside div with
> role="application" in a container element with role="document".
> In forms mode it is hard for screen reader users, particularly
> Jaws/NVDA to navigate static piece of text.
> This is particularly true with older versions of NVDA (versions prior
> to 2014.1)where user is unable to switch to browse mode when inside
> divs with role="application".
> Cheers and good luck.
>
>
> On 5/15/14, Paul J. Adam < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> > have to use linear navigation to get to the container On May 15,
> > 2014, at 7:38 PM, Jesse Hausler < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> wrote:
> >
> >> Paul,
> >>
> >> I tried adding role="region" aria-label="hello world" to our
<section>.
> >> It
> >> actually didn't work for us on OSX in Chrome or Safari.
> >>
> >> I wonder if it has something to do with how one enters the region.
> >>
> >> Jesse
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Paul J. Adam < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> VoiceOver for iOS tries to go focus on elements that are -9999px
> >>> sometimes and then the focus jumps to a random control since it
> >>> can't get to the off screen text.
> >>>
> >>> VO OS X reads "Interact with HTML content Hello World region" for
> >>> the below code:
> >>>
> >>> <section role="region" aria-label="Hello
> >>> World"><p>Blah</p></section>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On May 15, 2014, at 3:36 PM, Jesse Hausler
> >>> < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Thanks for the quick response Paul.
> >>>>
> >>>> So you're saying that adding role="region" with aria-label will
> >>>> make this compatible with more screen readers? Since we already
> >>>> tried
> aria-label,
> >>>> what does the role="region" add that would cause aria-label to
> >>>> begin working?
> >>>>
> >>>> As an aside, would role="group" be more appropriate?
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes, we definitely understand the responsibility of the
> >>>> application role and intend to use JS throughout to control
> >>>> keyboard focus.
> >>>>
> >>>> At this point, we're still prototyping to see if this is the best
> >>>> way forward.
> >>>>
> >>>> Tell me more about your concerns with visually hidden text. It's
> >>>> a method we use extensively in our products.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jesse
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Paul J. Adam
> >>>> < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I don't recommend using visually hidden text, you'll find this
> >>>>> causes problems later down the road.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For VO OS X you need to add a role=region and use an aria-label
> >>>>> instead
> >>> of
> >>>>> visually hidden text.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Role=application is a BIG responsibility! You have to control
> >>>>> every keyboard key they press with JavaScript events.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Is the user not going to need any heading quick navigation keys
> >>>>> or other screen reader nav keys while using the application?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Paul J. Adam
> >>>>> Accessibility Evangelist
> >>>>> www.deque.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On May 15, 2014, at 2:56 PM, Jesse Hausler
> >>>>> < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm having trouble using ARIA to get VoiceOver on OSX to
> >>>>>> announce a descriptive title for a region.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We're prototyping a builder type application. Think Visio, but
> >>>>>> way
> >>>>> simpler
> >>>>>> / smaller feature set.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We're planning to use the role="application" for the entire
> >>>>>> thing so we
> >>>>> can
> >>>>>> control keyboard behavior throughout the product.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The idea we are going with is to have 4 panels the user can
> >>>>>> switch
> >>>>> between:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - Toolbar (at the top)
> >>>>>> - Control Panel (on the left)
> >>>>>> - Properties Panel (on the right)
> >>>>>> - the main working canvas (in the middle)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> F6 and Shift+F6 move the user from panel to panel. Each panel
> >>>>>> has a
> >>>>> <span>
> >>>>>> with an offscreen class, which labels the panel. We put an
> >>>>> aria-labelledby
> >>>>>> attribute on the outermost element of the panel which links the
> >>>>> descriptive
> >>>>>> span.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> For example:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> <section aria-labelledy="tbar"> <span class="assistiveText"
> >>>>>> id="tbar">Toolbar</span> ... rest of the panel content...
> >>>>>> </section>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I get proper feedback using Jaws and FF: "Toolbar region..."
> >>>>>> VoiceOver with both Safari and Chrome will state that his is a
> Group,
> >>>>> which
> >>>>>> makes sense, but it wont announce the "Toolbar" part.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We've tried using aria-describedby, aria-label, and a regular
> >>>>>> old title attribute. The only thing that works is
> >>>>>> aria-labelledby with Jaws,
> >>>>> nothing
> >>>>>> on Mac.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Any experience with this sort of problem? Possible solutions?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Or did i just start myself a blog post? :)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Happy Global Accessibility Awareness Day everyone!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Jesse
> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>
> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>
> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>
> >>> > >>> > >>> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >>>
> >> > >> > >> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >
> > > > > > list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
>
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