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Re: Links opening in new windows

for

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Aug 5, 2014 4:45PM

One additional pizza slice for thought.
If _blank is used in the link to tell the browser that link opens in a
new window, it is up to the assistive technology to offer user the
configuration option of reporting that.
I could possibly maybe see value in advising developers who use
Javascript to open a link in a new tab or window to add a "new window"
icon as well as a non-visual indication (title or off-screen text) as
a good usability, not as a WCAG violation.
As a screen reader user, I actually find the biggest "change of
context" to be links to PDF files that are not marked as such when the
default setting is to display PDF in the browser rather than opening
it in AdobeReader.
IE at least half freezes up with Jaws and sometimes I have to restart
the browser.
As uch as I would like to pin that on the site developers and ask them
to get their accessible act together, I cannot see that they are doing
anything. Unless, of course, they provide a file icon visually.



On 8/5/14, Greg Gamble < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> One thing to keep in mind when providing such notifications is that you
>> should try to avoid being too verbose. For instance, your notice says
>> "This link opens in a new window". Imagine, for a moment, that you had to
>> listen to that. What are the *most* important words in that phrase? IMO
>> they're "opens new window".
>
> Excellent point ... thank you.
>
>
> Greg
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Karl Groves
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 11:58 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Links opening in new windows
>
> Greg,
>
> It depends on the use case. As Jared mentioned, there are likely to be use
> cases, like Gmail, where the notifications would not only be burdensome but
> unnecessary.
>
> In other cases, it'd be very helpful.
>
> One thing to keep in mind when providing such notifications is that you
> should try to avoid being too verbose. For instance, your notice says "This
> link opens in a new window". Imagine, for a moment, that you had to listen
> to that. What are the *most* important words in that phrase? IMO they're
> "opens new window".
>
> This is obviously an area of high subjectivity. Some people might argue that
> any kind of warning is unnecessary and they'd prefer not to have it at all.
>
> On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Greg Gamble < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> Thanks Karl
>>
>> What if they were notified? Would that be acceptable?
>>
>> For example, the links here have a hidden span tag that shows on hover :
>> https://gedverify.org/contact.aspx
>>
>>
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Karl Groves
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 11:05 AM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Links opening in new windows
>>
>> Greg,
>>
>> It might be worthwhile to search the archives a bit. I recall (possibly
>> several years ago) posting some observations I made during usability
>> studies. The short version is that the way the window/ tab opens is very
>> important. In usability studies it is very common for participants to not
>> notice the new window/ tab. The side effect being the exact opposite of
>> what people intend. Site owners often say "we want the new window so
>> users don't lose our site" and yet the exact opposite tends to happen.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 1:49 PM, Greg Gamble < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>
>>> Does it matter if the link is opening a new window for a site outside
>>> the framework of the current site?
>>>
>>> For instance, if a user clicks a link and is taken to a site not tied
>>> to the one that the user is currently at, as compared to one that is
>>> related to the current site ... like a subdomain.
>>>
>>> Is a new window expected for one and the other not?
>>>
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: <EMAIL REMOVED> [mailto:
>>> <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Andrew Kirkpatrick
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 10:25 AM
>>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Links opening in new windows
>>>
>>> There were a couple of different perspectives offered in the WCAG
>>> working group thread. It is worth noting that not everyone on that
>>> thread is a member of the working group, but even if you constrain
>>> the comments to people who are current members in good standing
>>> you'll find differences of opinion.
>>>
>>> Karl submitted the question to the working group via the group's
>>> comment email address (thank you), so the group will be discussing
>>> the question and will be able to offer its view on the subject.
>>>
>>> I'm sure that response will be shared here.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> AWK
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: <EMAIL REMOVED> [mailto:
>>> <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Jared Smith
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 10:49 AM
>>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Links opening in new windows
>>>
>>> Karl Groves wrote:
>>>
>>> > Do you think 3.2.2 includes links?
>>>
>>> No.
>>>
>>> 3.2.2 is titled "On Input...". Links do not take input. It would,
>>> however, be a 3.2.2 failure if the user is typing in a text box or
>>> changes a select menu, for example, and a new window opens that they
>>> have not been previously informed of.
>>>
>>> > Do you think the warning(s) must be provided, as is the case in G201?
>>>
>>> Yes, but only if you're talking about input or focus.
>>>
>>> The example in G201 is incorrect. It uses a link with target="_blank"
>>> as an example, but it's already been made clear that activating a
>>> link is not "Input" or "Focus". G201 (which is an Advisory Technique,
>>> not a Sufficient Technique) provides a technique for something that
>>> is not even covered by the success criteria it is associated to! This
>>> would be like having a technique for color contrast associated to the
>>> success criteria for alternative text, except that color contrast is
>>> at least covered elsewhere in WCAG. A requirement that users be
>>> informed that links open in new windows is not.
>>>
>>> Clearly several in the WCAG working group thread you posted seemed to
>>> want to contort and reinterpret a success criterion (ANY success
>>> criterion for that matter) to somehow force this in as a new failure.
>>>
>>> Opening new windows is also not covered by 3.2.5. The other
>>> techniques you list (H83, SCR24, and G200) are quite a stretch in
>>> their applicability to this success criteria. 3.2.5 says that you
>>> can't cause a change of context that is not user initiated. Opening a
>>> new window at a random point in time would be a failure, but clicking
>>> a link is an explicit user request for a change of context and would not
>>> be, even if it opens a new window.
>>>
>>> In reality, links that open in new windows without previous
>>> notification can be confusing... but for everyone. It is a usability
>>> issue, but it's not something addressed by WCAG (well, at least the
>>> normative part, not counting these advisory techniques for which
>>> there is no proper success criteria).
>>>
>>> I can argue that there are situations where informing users that
>>> links open in new windows could make an interface LESS usable and
>>> accessible. It would be burdensome and unnecessary to indicate that
>>> all links open in new windows in Gmail, for example, where all links
>>> in messages do so consistently.
>>>
>>> Jared
>>> >>> >>> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
>>> >>> >>> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
>>> >>> >>> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Karl Groves
>> www.karlgroves.com
>> @karlgroves
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves
>> Phone: +1 410.541.6829
>>
>> Modern Web Toolsets and Accessibility
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uq6Db47-Ks
>>
>> www.tenon.io
>> >> >> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> >> >> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Karl Groves
> www.karlgroves.com
> @karlgroves
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves
> Phone: +1 410.541.6829
>
> Modern Web Toolsets and Accessibility
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uq6Db47-Ks
>
> www.tenon.io
> > > messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > > >


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