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Re: two worthwhile reads

for

From: Bryan Garaventa
Date: Sep 8, 2014 2:50PM

Personally, I think it's much more important to teach developers how to understand accessibility and how it works, such as the most
common ATs and the differences between them, how these interact with web content, how markup effects this functionality, how
scripting such as event handling and focus movement should match various element roles, how to check this information in the
Accessibility Tree and what the Accessibility Tree is, and how to use the various specs and guidelines to confirm implementation
design.

For developers receptive to this, I've found this usually results in much more accessible software, because the developer is better
informed and understands the concepts being applied, and how to identify the issues when they aren't working properly.

In contrast, when piecemeal information is fed to developers incrementally, it's like looking at one leaf of a tree at a time, and
trying to get them to imagine what the whole tree looks like using only that information.

[For the record: What follows is a joke. It does not in any way promote the disparaging of any person or group, including those with
disabilities. Nor does it endorse the harming of others, physically or otherwise, including the ignition of any individual for any
reason, willing or otherwise. Nor does it in any way, implied or otherwise, endorse the use of humor for any reason.]

"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life", Terry Pratchett

-----Original Message-----
From: <EMAIL REMOVED> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Tim Harshbarger
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 12:38 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] two worthwhile reads

Actually, let me bring up something that might be good to discuss for everyone's benefit while we are on this topic.

So, let's say you want to practice incremental accessibility--that is you want to practice accessibility in a way where you get
people to improve the accessibility of their site or application over a period of time.

So, you are talking to Dean the developer and you convince him to increase the accessibility of his site. Later, you work with him
again and show him how he can improve his site more. You keep repeating this pattern of incremental accessibility. Then one day,
Dean asks you "How much accessibility is enough?"

What are good ways to engage with developers and designers to build the accessibility of their digital content incrementally that
helps them answer the question "how much is enough?" Is there a point where you tell them they don't have to do anything else?
When we are sheperding people on the journey, where are we wanting to take them to?

-----Original Message-----
From: <EMAIL REMOVED> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Denis Boudreau
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 10:07 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] two worthwhile reads

Tim,

I think you described the struggle we face between being satisfied with scraps and asking for too much. It's a thin line that can
easily be crossed. Of course, we all want the best accessible products possible... I can't imagine any of us being satisfied with
anything less. But there's a difference between wanting perfection while doing all we can to support the front line into achieving
that goal, and commanding them for perfection at the crack of a whip, while not being opened to acknowledging genuine efforts that
may be less than perfect, but still get us one step closer.

Accessibility is a journey. And a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. Maybe that step is a button marked up as
such instead of using a link. Maybe it's using heading markup instead of styled paragraphs. Maybe sometimes it's even acknowledging
to the use of ARIA if significant semantic changes really cannot be made to the underlying markup.

We don't need to go crazy with praises the second developers and designers get one little thing right.. Maybe we should wait until
they have reached their 100th step, who knows? All I'm saying is, encouragements and a positive attitude often go a longer way.
Sometimes, it feels like I should change my title to Web Accessibility Cheerleader. But if that's what it takes, man, watch me put
on those tights!

I also understand that for some people, this is very personal. Trust me, I get that. I have been schooled. Often. While I am not
really impacted by it personally, I believe myself to be empathetic enough to intellectualize what it must be like to be excluded.
And it bothers me enough that I'm still fighting that fight 15 years later. Trust me, it would be much easier to just swallow the
blue pill. But the one thing I've learned after all those years is that you usually attract more flies with honey than with vinegar.

I realize some people respond better to the stick than they do with the carrot. But I like to think not everyone is like that. It's
ok to reach for the stars, as long as you're willing to settle for the moon. But being unwilling to accept anything short than
perfection can ultimately only be disruptive.

Ok, enough with the cheesy metaphors and movie references. I have a team of well-intentioned developers to go cheer up. :)

/Denis





On Sep 8, 2014, at 9:31 AM, Tim Harshbarger < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> While I definitely agree that it is good to praise people for the progress they do make while encouraging them to improve the
accessibility in the future, I think I can also understand the perspective of people who don't want to accept anything less than
complete accessibility.
>
> If you believe that people with disabilities have a right to access, then it is easy to understand why you might feel that
accessibility should be an expectation and any UI that isn't accessible should be considered poor quality.
>
> From that perspective, small improvements to accessibility really aren't praiseworthy. It would be kind of like praising a project
team for getting the look and feel of the buttons right even though they screwed up everything else on the UI. Also, I suspect that
letting the other accessibility issues go when you know that the project team spent their focus working on other items that had less
impact on individual users feels like a pretty rotten compromise.
>
> However, I have a feeling that the best approach to increase accessibility of user interfaces across the board includes using both
carrots and sticks. As much as I wish people could be engaged in such a manner that they all would choose to make things
accessible, I think the pragmatic view is that such isn't the case. I feel that accessibility is closely tied to societal views on
disability and there will always be people that hold a view of disability that will make accessibility seem to be trivial.
>
> Of course, the pragmatic view also dictates that you use what you have to get done what you need to get done. So, if all you have
is carrots, then you have to use them the best way you can. However, if you only have carrots or only have sticks, you probably
won't ever be able to get as far as if you had everything you needed.
>
> And brian, I did like what you put together. It definitely was both humourous and thought-provoking.
>
> Thanks!
> Tim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Len Burns
> Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2014 3:38 PM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] two worthwhile reads
>
> Dennis,
>
> This is well stated. I work in an environment where many developers
> are already covering not only their own job but that of others due to
> short staffing and lack of resources. My strategy is as much
> appreciation of improvements as providing feedback and technical
> consultation. I get much further by demonstrating an understanding
> that improvements in accessibility must balance with other pressing
> priorities. The outcome is not going to be perfection. My goals are
> to support steady improvement where those changes will have the
> greatest benefit. It is often exasperating, but I do my best to transform my exasperation into positive outcomes.
>
> -Len
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Denis
> Boudreau
> Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2014 12:56 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] two worthwhile reads
>
> I agree with you, Karl. I know, this is not a good way to make new friends.
> ;)
>
> While this is not the only reason and probably not the most important
> one either, our unreasonable expectations for perfection most likely
> explain why accessibility is viewed by a lot of people has being so hard.
>
> If you follow the thread that was generated from my tweet (mostly from
> members of our echo chamber, unsurprisingly), you will see that a lot
> of really good, valid and legitimate feedback was shared. hat being
> said, what struck me yesterday as I was going through that feedback
> was that it seems like it is very easy for us to put the blame on the
> armies of developers, designers and otherwise clueless stakeholders
> out there who don't get it right off the bat.
>
> What we more rarely hear about (and was vastly overlooked in that
> Twitter
> discussion) is recognizing our own inability to make accessibility
> engaging, interesting or even exciting to people outside our field.
> Developers and designers are used to tackling hard problems, they do
> it all the time. If they're not willing to tackle this one, maybe it's
> because we're partly responsible with all our religious WCAG
> compliance nonsense. And maybe managers don't bite into it much
> because accessibility usually tastes like fear, uncertainty and doubt (make sure not to be sued).
>
> By demanding nothing less than perfection, by setting these impossible
> to reach golden standards, and by quickly gunning down anyone who
> makes even the smallest of mistakes while trying to do the right
> thing, we are creating a situation where it just becomes impossible to
> please us. Of course, there are a lot of bad developers and designers
> out there, and then there are also the lazy ones (just like in any
> field), but I wouldn't be surprised if most people who give up on
> accessibiility do so because we directly or indirectly drive them to do it.
>
> I witness examples of our intolerance in email threads, blog post
> comments and on social media all the time, and so do you. If we
> lowered our expectations, were a little more tolerant and allowed
> people to make mistakes as long as they're really trying to do the
> right thing, maybe we'd have more success and maybe our discipline
> would be more welcomed in the mainstream.
>
> Unfortunately, it seems that for every accessiblity specialist out
> there who embraces a pragmatic, empathetic and welcoming approach to
> accessibility, there are about 10 who swear only but WCAG 2.0 hard-lines.
>
> /Denis
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2014, at 10:13 PM, Karl Groves < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
>> "do web accessibility professionals have a sense of humour?"
>>
>> It appears not.
>>
>> Sad, really.
>>
>> Denis Boudreau recently asked "A question for y'all this morning: why
>> do you think people feel that web accessibility is so hard?"
>> (https://twitter.com/dboudreau/status/508275085942464512)
>>
>> Here's why I think it is so hard: because accessibility people expect
>> perfection and they're so willing to name and shame people who aren't
>> perfect. Accessibility people are constantly fighting among each
>> other and looking for stuff to complain about.
>>
>> Bryan tried posting something humorous. Yeah, it was off-topic for
>> the mailing list, but who cares? I'd rather see humor on WAI-IG than
>> another idiotic debate about whether everything needs to work on Lynx
>> or not.
>>
>> People need to stop looking around every corner for the next thing
>> that offends them and start looking for real, tangible, impactful
>> ways to advance accessibility into the mainstream.
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Jennison Mark Asuncion
>> < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Once again, WebAIM has done great work and has published salary and
>>> other useful insights into working in digital accessibility. Results
>>> of their summer survey are here
>>> http://webaim.org/projects/practitionersurvey/
>>>
>>> I also came across this piece and thought I'd share it. The '100%
>>> accessible website' joke--do web accessibility professionals have a
>>> sense of humour?
>>>
> http://www.accessiq.org/news/w3c-column/2014/09/the-100-accessible-web
> site-j oke-do-web-accessibility-professionals-have-a
>>>
>>> Jennison
>>> >>> >>> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Karl Groves
>> www.karlgroves.com
>> @karlgroves
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves
>> Phone: +1 410.541.6829
>>
>> Modern Web Toolsets and Accessibility
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uq6Db47-Ks
>>
>> www.tenon.io
>> >> >> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
>
> > > list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
>
> > > list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > > list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>