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Re: Preceding headings and link context [wasWCAG 2.0: multiple buttons with the same name accessible]

for

From: Olaf Drümmer
Date: Nov 21, 2014 2:15AM

+1

Olaf

PS: This is one of the best descriptions of how one should address a topic like this I have read in many years.

On 21 Nov 2014, at 06:17, Cliff Tyllick < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> Jason, I think you're right on target.
> Another way to think of this issue is that when users in general use the full capabilities of their devices, they detect and can comprehend the structure of the content, so the purpose of the link is clear.
> If a person using a screen reader either reads the page top to bottom or skims from one heading to the next until they find a section they want to read and then read that section, the context of any ambiguously worded link they encounter is already clear.
> When a person who can see does the same, the context is clear.
> It is when users in general choose not to use the full capabilities of their devices that the purpose of the link is ambiguous.
> For a person using a screen reader, asking for an alphabetical list of all links on the page is choosing not to use the full capabilities of the screen reader.
> But a person who can see—even a person who can see well—can make the same choice by dramatically reducing the size of the browser window. For example, even though I have a reasonably large monitor, sometimes I use only one-sixteenth of its area to read Web content. (Why? Because I need the rest of the screen for a mandatory training video.) In this view, a "Read more…" link has no context because the heading can't fit in the window I've created.
> That passes success criterion 2.4.4. The purpose of each link is clear "except where the purpose of the link would be ambiguous to users in general."
>
> As you point out, Jason, the question is not whether this is the best way to design content. (My answer: "It depends." Adding more words to each teaser's "Read more..." link risks cluttering the page, making it more difficult for people with attention deficits to recognize the overall pattern of "Heading—teaser—Read more.")
>
> The question is whether a link is accessible when you need to know the heading before it if you are to know the purpose if the link.
>
> The answer is yes.
>
> In another thread, Lucy Greco asked what could be done to clarify the purpose of each "Read more..." link in the list produced by a screen reader. Getting the screen reader to expose an ARIA property of each link is one idea. But what if screen readers offered this option: "List all links between this heading and the next heading of the same level"?
> Then, when confronted with a list of links with the same wording, the person using the screen reader could switch to a list of headings. When they get to the heading they care about, then they could ask for a list of all links under that heading. If the last link is "Read more," then they know to expect a complete article on the topic of that heading.
>
> Wouldn't that make the experience of using AT more like the experience of skimming the page visually?
> And wouldn't that make H80 work well for people who cannot see?
> Seems to me it would.
> Cliff Tyllick
>
>
> From: Jason Kiss < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 4:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Preceding headings and link context [was Re: WCAG 2.0: multiple buttons with the same name accessible]
>
> Thanks, Andrew. I appreciate the reply, and yes, it does help. I've a
> follow up question below.
>
> On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 10:42 AM, Andrew Kirkpatrick < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> So, what does that mean? You could make an argument that by providing a custom attribute with more information for a link with poor link text that you are enabling programmatic determinability. And you'd be right that assistive technologies can get to the information, but then the question of accessibility support kicks in - the information needs to be programmatically available AND there needs to be user agent support so people can actually use what you create. In the case of the prior heading there is some assistive technology support, and since the providers are determining what browsers and AT are part of their conformance claims, it is possible that a provider might say "you need to use IE or FF with JAWS" as part of that claim.
>
> Agreed, but given that all screen readers (at least as far as I'm
> aware) enable quick access to a link's preceding heading (albeit
> simultaneously moving focus to that heading), wouldn't we consider the
> relationship between the link and that heading both programmatically
> determinable AND effectively fully accessibility supported by screen
> readers?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
>
>>
>> What the techniques do for authors is provide a set of ways that they can meet the success criteria. There are many techniques that the group hasn't published, so the techniques don't describe the only way to meet the success criteria, but what they do provide is a way to meet a given SC in a way that allows the author to say "the WCAG group indicates that in their opinion this works". If an author wants to do something that the group hasn't published as a technique, or that the group feels is less than ideal, he still can but will need to provide more of the information that provides backing to the idea that the technique used meets the success criteria.
>>
>> Does this help?
>> AWK
>>
>>