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Re: JAWS and Describedby

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From: Moore,Michael (Accessibility) (HHSC)
Date: Sep 14, 2016 3:19PM

JP what the screen reader was actually accessing was pure conjecture on my part based upon the behavior. I used the a-viewer tool to see what was being presented through MSAA.

Since NVDA did not have issues with aria-describedby or aria-labelledby in IE and that information was not available through MSAA per the a-viewer tool I made the assumption that NVDA must be looking directly at the html elements to find the information.

JAWS only announced the correct content from aria-labelledby and aria-describedby when that content was correct when looking at MSAA through a-viewer. This only occurred when looking at the output of a-viewer when focused on the FF window. Thus I concluded that JAWS was not getting this information from the HTML and trying to find it through MSAA.

My logic may be flawed but it's the best explanation that I could come up with.

Mike Moore
Accessibility Coordinator
Texas Health and Human Services Commission
Civil Rights Office
(512) 438-3431 (Office)

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Jamous, JP
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 4:09 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] JAWS and Describedby

Mike,

How were you able to identify if the SR was reading the MSAA? Is there a way to obtain this info from IE itself?




**************************************************

Jean-Pierre Jamous
Digital Accessibility Specialist & Developer UI Accessibility Team

SME for EBN Include
Digital Accessibility Specialist & Blind and Visually Impaired Expert

The only limitations in life are those we set for ourselves

**************************************************















-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Moore,Michael (Accessibility) (HHSC)
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 4:05 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] JAWS and Describedby

Guess I have been lucky - Grandpa has been staying silent for me. <grin/> Unfortunately the IE stability issues exist regardless of what AT I am running or not. I just figure that it is Microsoft's way of telling me it is time to take a break.

Mike Moore
Accessibility Coordinator
Texas Health and Human Services Commission Civil Rights Office
(512) 438-3431 (Office)

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Jamous, JP
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 3:59 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] JAWS and Describedby

Bryan and Mike,

Thank you for this invaluable info. Personally, I am beginning to like JAWS with Firefox more than IE. IE crashes so much and on certain text boxes, that demonic voice of grandpa fires up. It has happened on multiple sites with me.




**************************************************

Jean-Pierre Jamous
Digital Accessibility Specialist & Developer UI Accessibility Team

SME for EBN Include
Digital Accessibility Specialist & Blind and Visually Impaired Expert

The only limitations in life are those we set for ourselves

**************************************************















-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Moore,Michael (Accessibility) (HHSC)
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 3:29 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] JAWS and Describedby

Hi JP,

I noticed a few weeks ago when testing issues with aria-labelledby and aria-describedby that if you examined the MSAA interface using a-viewer in IE that accDescription was never populated by IE11 but that is was when using FireFox. Not sure if this is part of the problem or not but since JAWS cannot get the description directly through MSAA in IE11 that may be the source of the problem and explain the difference between FF and IE. I think that NVDA and the other screen readers have just given up on MSAA for web information and are directly accessing the attributes through the HTML regardless of the browser but that is purely speculation.

Mike Moore
Accessibility Coordinator
Texas Health and Human Services Commission Civil Rights Office
(512) 438-3431 (Office)

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Jamous, JP
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 3:09 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] JAWS and Describedby

I removed the role="alert". The issue remains.

What is happening is that JAWS gets the focus on the text box and goes into forms mode on. The moment I type the first letter, JAWS acts as if it refocused on the text box object.

I even removed one of the IDs and used one with aria-describedby. The issue continued.

I figured maybe because the input type is "password". I changed it to "text" and nothing different.

NVDA and VoiceOver do not do that at all. Even JAWS 17 does not do it with Firefox. Only good old IE 11.




**************************************************

Jean-Pierre Jamous
Digital Accessibility Specialist & Developer UI Accessibility Team

SME for EBN Include
Digital Accessibility Specialist & Blind and Visually Impaired Expert

The only limitations in life are those we set for ourselves

**************************************************















-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 2:53 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] JAWS and Describedby

Hi
Would role="alert" on the validator span be causing this? I suspect so, but don't have time to test right now.
In any case, I wouldn't use role="alert" on this, use it sparingly and only for critical live region situations, not in a tooltip scenario.



On 9/14/16, Jamous, JP < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I know JAWS 17 has issues. I mean personal issues with aria-describedby.
> Yet, what I am observing does not make any darn sense to me. Can
> someone shed any light on this?
>
> JAWS 17 fires up the aria-describedby when the password text box gets focus.
> That's how it should be. However, if I type the first character, JAWS
> fires the aria-describedby again. If I continue to type, JAWS does not
> fire the aria-describedby.
>
> If I switch to Firefox with JAWS 17, the behavior is different and as
> it should be. JAWS fires up aria-describedby only when the text box
> gets the focus.
>
> I cannot figure out for the life of me why JAWS 17 and IE 11 re-fire
> the aria-describedby when the first character is typed in the text box.
>
> Here is my code, you can put it in a note pad and test it.
>
> I need a solution to this or a work around if any of you know of one.
>
> <div>
> <label for="Password1">
> Password
> </label>
> <input type="password" aria-describedby="sc-validatr-15 password-hints"
> required="" id="Password1" />
> <span role="alert" id="sc-validatr-15"> Please enter a strong
> password.
> </span>
> <div id="password-hints">
> <h3>
> Why create a strong password?
> </h3>
> <p>
> Account security is becoming more and more important all the time. And
> in order to keep your account safe, we need your help. We know that
> creating a strong and unique password might not be easy, but it can be
> fun. Try using an inside joke, a rhyme, or a reference to something only you would know.
> </p>
> </div>
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >


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