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Re: Errors with tab order and reading order in forms

for

From: JP Jamous
Date: Nov 29, 2016 9:43AM


Quickly, the answer is Yes.

I would tackle this one just like a web page since Adobe Reader is the equivalent of a browser.

Let Adobe set the tabindex based on the structure of the document. Map that structure in your head or on paper first. Secondly, test the output and if it needs a tabindex of 0 or higher to adjust it, you are good to go.

As long as the tab order for keyboard only and screen reader users is how it should be, go ahead and move on with other work. Don't sweat it.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Anne Godlewski
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 9:58 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Errors with tab order and reading order in forms

Ha! Thanks for the laugh, JP. There seems to be no reason why Acrobat is bumping the "no" of a yes/no pair of check boxes, for example, further down the page, and then telling me that this is where that check box should be.

Is it acceptable, then, that the tab order is set as "unspecified" in such cases for those pages?

Anne

On Nov 29, 2016, at 9:45 AM, JP Jamous wrote:

> I have not had the chance to do what Ann has done, but as a programmer, it is obvious why the tool is giving you errors. Jonathon is right about it. A program is dumb in the sense that it only does what it was told to do. It cannot make intelligent decisions like humans. If it does we won't need WCAG auditors.
>
> So your issue is that you are submissive to the tool. Don't let that dumb thing confuse you and convince you that it is smarter than your brain. If you know what you are doing, you can safely ignore those errors.
>
> My quote as a programmer to all programmers and developers, "If it works when you test it. Then, it is correct and no need to follow what your IDE tools tell you." You tested it and it worked. Do not analyze it. It ain't your job. *Smiles*.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> Behalf Of Jonathan Avila
> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 8:34 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Errors with tab order and reading order in forms
>
>>>> I'm having a significant issue with a particular page of a form.
>> Are you using tabindex=1,2,3,4+, etc. to try and manually control the tab order? Don’t do that if so.
>
> I think Anne is talking about PDF. There are some situations in PDF where the focus order may need to be different than the document structure order. In those specific cases it is ok. For example, say a table is used and the data table contains forms fields and headers, etc. It may be the preferred focus order to fill out all fields in column 1 first -- yet the structure order is row 1, row 2, etc. which would dictate filling out all fields in row 1 first. As long as the focus order is correct to the business logic and all fields are focusable the warning could safely be ignored in my opinion.
>
> Jonathan
>
> Jonathan Avila
> Chief Accessibility Officer
> SSB BART Group
> <EMAIL REMOVED>
> 703.637.8957 (Office)
>
> Visit us online: Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog Don't miss Trends in Accessibility & Electronic Documents on Wed 12/7!
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>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> Behalf Of Paul J. Adam
> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 6:13 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Errors with tab order and reading order in forms
>
> Are you using tabindex=1,2,3,4+, etc. to try and manually control the tab order? Don’t do that if so.
>
> Just let the source code or DOM order of the page control the focus and reading order of content.
>
> I’d recommend using the autofocus attribute if you want to start focus at a certain input on the page rather than using tabindex.
>
> http://pauljadam.com/demos/positivetabindexfail.html
> <http://pauljadam.com/demos/positivetabindexfail.html>;
> http://pauljadam.com/demos/autofocusvstabindex.html
> <http://pauljadam.com/demos/autofocusvstabindex.html>;
>
> If you share some code or a working demo we can answer your question better.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Paul J. Adam
> Accessibility Evangelist
> www.deque.com
>
>> On Nov 28, 2016, at 5:07 PM, Anne Godlewski < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm having a significant issue with a particular page of a form.
>>
>> When I re-order the form fields on this page (page 8) using the Forms tool, my accessibility checker tells me that on several pages, the tab order may be inconsistent with the document structure. When I set the tab order to follow the document structure, I lose about 10 form field tags throughout the document and the reading order on page 8 gets messed up. So I add the form field tags back and leave the tab order according to the document structure, and the accessibility checker says all is well, but I can see that the reading order on page 8 is still completely wrong. If I correct one error, I'm left with the other error.
>>
>> Is there a solution to this awful cycle?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Anne
>>
>> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>